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No Room At The Campfire


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8 minutes ago, Cree Anders SASS#81948 said:

I am brand new to this game and have yet to shoot my first match . I plan on doing my best but am more interested in making new friends and meeting new people . I am at a stage in life were I will love to compete but will probably spend more time yucking it up and telling storys . It is the social aspect that has drawn me to SASS as much as my love of shooting . I certainly hope there will be some room at the fire when I get there  .

Welcome to the fun.

I reckon the attitude varies some from club to club. Around these parts we all have a great time. Fast has never been my thing and everybody knows it. Smokeless powder has never been my thing either, and everybody knows it. ;)

Folks here are friendly, helpful, and courteous. Everybody has a great time. Must be something in the water.

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tell you what,,, go out to camp perry and shoot hi-power for a season,,, you just may find out that SASS is still the friendliest gun sport there is...

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1 hour ago, McCandless said:

There are several in my neck o' the woods that tell me I should just play with one set of pistols for consistency.  And, with the amount of time I've been shooting, I should be faster.

:lol: Yeah, I had someone tell me that too...I told them I had been in a coma for 10 years...ya shoulda seen the look on their face. :lol:

 

I did explain that I was kidding. I then explained what SASS and CAS is to me and that if all I wanted to do was shoot fast I would have stuck with other shooting sports and not invested so much money, time and effort into Cowboy shooting.

 

 

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I’m sorry that this has been your experience. It certainly is t that way around here. I often tell people that the second best thing about this game (the people are first) is that we all can play how we want and get what we want from the game and all have a good time doing it together. 

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Sgt. I'm Happy to shoot in clubs around here that some would consider "Old School"

Most of us aren't fast, but we have a lot of fun.

If you're ever up around Eastern Ontario, join us at The Ottawa Valley Marauders;  The Wild Turkey Posse and/or Ruff's Regulators, but be warned, we use rope shooting "boxes", bonus targets, props, cannons, machine guns, movement and action type start lines. 

We like it.

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Bonus Swinger Grenville.jpg

CAS September 9 2017 01 (10).jpg

Cowboy Action 009.jpg

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CAS to me is a family reunion where a shoot broke out. And I'm not blood kin to one of you!

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17 hours ago, Sgt. John Campbell, SASS #58165 said:

I've been shooting CAS since 2004, and over the years, I've enjoyed participating in the sport, and the people that I've met while participating in the sport.  Over the years, however, the focus and direction of the sport has changed dramatically.  We used to do things during matches that were fun, like using props, performing actions both on and off the clock, to make matches a fun event to attend.

 

Lately, the fun aspect of the matches has gone away, in favor of speed over all else.  Any type of action, whether off the clock, or, heaven forbid, on the clock, is strictly frowned upon, and simply not done.  These days, if you do not spend the money to have all of your firearms rebuilt and tuned by the growing number of CAS gunsmiths, you are frowned upon in the sport.  If you shoot loads that actually match factory spec ammo, both for bullet weight and velocity, then again, there is something wrong with you.

 

I come to matches to have fun, and to challenge myself shooting, to hit all of the targets, and to do so in a way that challenges my shooting skills.  I come to matches in proper cowboy attire, and my gear (belt, holsters, etc) is of the style actually used in the old west (my rig is a high ride, double strong side, Cheyenne Double Loop setup).  My pistols have had no gunsmithing done to them, other than the natural smoothing of the action that comes from firing many a thousand of rounds through them.  My rifle and shotgun, again no gunsmithing, just the natural smoothing of the actions produced by firing thousands of rounds through them over the years.

 

My game is my game, and I come to matches to play my game.  Lately though, I've not felt welcome at matches.  Seems that those of us who do not subscribe to the mantra of "speed over all else", are not as welcome to play the game.  Lately, what used to be described as "The Cowboy Way", has been relegated to a distant memory within the sport.  The old SASS saying of "Come for the shooting...Stay for the people", seems to have gone by the wayside, replaced by "Come to see how fast you can shoot".

Sgt,

 I started to highlight the parts of your post that I disagreed with then I realized I would have highlighted the whole post and here's why..........

 

I've been with SASS for exactly 3 years now and now I'm liked far and wide! Well, maybe not far and wide BUT my point is, I didn't make friends 'till I made the effort to introduce myself and actually walk up to total strangers (fast or slow, smokeless or black powder, young or old) and strike up a conversation with them.

 

When I was new it SEEMED that not to many shooters were that friendly towards me then I realized that it was ME, not them!  I would sit back in my little comfort zone and only spoke when spoken to and talk about "newbie" issues and concerns but after I got over that phase, everything was GREAT and I made lots of friends.  THEN....... I switched from .357/105g ammo to 45Colt and Black powder subs pushing 200+g bullets and it started all over again, it SEEMED that none of the fast shooters wanted anything to do with me but once again I realized it was ME again, not them.  I was so involved with what I wore and what I shot that if someone shot differently they must not like associating with me..... which was yet another self inflicted bit of nonsense!

 

Ever heard the term.... "birds of a feather"?  It applies to our matches just like everywhere else in life.  Fast shooters enjoy talking about trigger jobs, the latest short stroke techniques, who's the newest gunsmith on the block with the latest gadget, etc, JUST AS MUCH as black powder shooters enjoy talking about new ways to cram 4 more grains of powder into a case, how they rocked that last set of targets, which powder produces the MOST smoke or where they got their neat elk handled 15" Bowie knife with the beaded custom made sheath!

 

Instead of thinking the "fast shooters" don't like you anymore, how about walking up to a huddle of them next match and asking how many grains of black powder they think would fill a .32 case since your thinking of becoming more competitive and could use some advice!  Once the laughter dies down I think you will see they are just a bunch of good ole boys and nothing like you thought they were AND....... you've got some new friend to compete against!

 

'Course, I could be wrong!

 

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6 hours ago, Noz said:

The nice thing about SASS is that you can play the game in any way that gives you satisfaction.  Super fast shooters are not fast because they have done extensive work on their guns, they are fast because they have natural ability and they practice.

I have a friend that shoots in the 13 to 20 second range all day long.  If you took his race guns away from him and gave him box stock guns he would still beat the majority of shooters.  Practice.

We have shooters, like the above mentioned that shoot in the mid-teens and we have shooters that shoot in the mid-seventies.  As long as they are safe and having fun they are all welcome.

Some of us are truly old farts that might have been competitive 30 years ago but shoot now for the fun of it.  Yes I'm still competitive enough that I would love to beat J-Bar in a match, but it doesn't seem to be in the stars so I shoot as well as I can and enjoy myself.

 

 

Well said, Noz.  My sentiments exactly.

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You're right, Captain Bill.  I saw your post a few minutes ago and it's gone now.

 

Communist plot, I believe.

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4 hours ago, Cree Anders SASS#81948 said:

I am brand new to this game and have yet to shoot my first match . I plan on doing my best but am more interested in making new friends and meeting new people . I am at a stage in life were I will love to compete but will probably spend more time yucking it up and telling storys . It is the social aspect that has drawn me to SASS as much as my love of shooting . I certainly hope there will be some room at the fire when I get there  .

Don't worry about it.  I shot at Chester and Ballston Spa for a number of years before leaving the East Coast.  Plenty of friendly, welcoming shooters. 

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2 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Is it just me or are posts disappearing without explanation?  I posted about Doc Holliday and Wild Bill's gun modifications and now the post is gone.

Russian Hackers!:D

 

Randy

 

 

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20 hours ago, J Bar Binks, #47015 said:

I have to agree. But I'll keep shooting in 2nd gear whilst the rest of 'em compete to see who can unload their guns the fastest.

A top shooter once told me that shooting anything but light .38 bullets at minimum velocity was rude, inconsiderate and completely unnecessary. :mellow:

 

 

One might equally say that shooting mouse-fart .38's is unmanly, but I tend to be more generous and say that shooting whatever you like best is just right.  ;)

 

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I just come to play with my Old Guns and enjoy everyone. 

I could care less how fast or slow someone shoots .

It's all about just getting out with like minded people and shooting old guns . 

I just come and play my game .

The way I won't too play it .

God bless .

Rooster 

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3 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Is it just me or are posts disappearing without explanation?  I posted about Doc Holliday and Wild Bill's gun modifications and now the post is gone.

Wild Bill and Doc Holliday are copyrighted and any use of their names or images without the expressed written consent of major league baseball is strictly prohibited.

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3 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Is it just me or are posts disappearing without explanation?  I posted about Doc Holliday and Wild Bill's gun modifications and now the post is gone.

 

Mine disappeared too. Oh well... I apologize if I was rocking the boat.

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21 hours ago, Lead Monger said:

I don't  mind standard loads or loads on the light side. Makes no difference to me. I has stunned to hear more than one person remark how much they didn't like people to shoot Black Powder. It smells bad and there's all that smoke. One person evan said it was too loud!

Personally, I like to follow a black powder shooter.  They drive away the mosquitoes and nats.  Keep shooting...

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I have shot with many great people, both fast and slow. Speed is a part of the game! I shot BP, had my rifle short stroked because I like a smooth action and the cost wasn't really that much more.

I never saw anybody say anything bad about anybody who did not have their guns slicked up. And while I have heard complaints about the way some stages were set up, we all shot them as best we could. Me? I knew starting out that I never would be a "contender" but I always watched the fast ones to see how I could improve my game.

Some people take the game more seriously than others, and I for one do not begrudge them that. The "Cowboy Way," in my opinion, is alive and well at matches set up for speed as well as

"old time" matches. YMMV though.

 

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I think I hold the Record For empting The Saloon at WR in 2016,Three spotters, ME and the TO went inside the Saloon by the time I got of my second shot two spotters were out da door and one was exiting the window by the time I got off shot number 4 .... 

 

My .44 Open-Tops are Named "Buck" and "Boom"....

 

Come up the Western Canada and Play ..

 

Jabez Cowboy

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if it aint fun - im not doin it anymore , im of the age when i want to enjoy what i do , that said i enjoy seeing the fast shooters , as long as they dont give me a hard time about finishing in the lower third and maybe the bottom side of that , i will keep going and having a good time , 

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I've seen posts like this in the past...never could understand them. So, I'm trying again.

 

I figured by the sound of things, that if I looked at the club that the OP states as their home club, that I might see some unique grouping of folks. So I looked...

 

By the scores, the club looks like it has the standard variety of competitors. Doesn't looked stacked with "Top Shooters"...has GF's, SS, ES...and so on. Stage times look normal. So I still don't get it.

 

I did notice that the OP hasn't shot at this club since last June. Perhaps he moved to another club and that club has a different set of folks...heck, I don't know. But I'm getting the feeling that the OP (current and those that have made other similar posts in the past), has just lost interest and is looking to put the blame on something that is out of their control.

 

Phantom...still having a good time after 14+ years...and still thinks the folks are great!!!!

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Bunch Of Great Folks with the Possible exception of Ole Phantom ;):lol:

Good ta see you back, come North an Shoot , ya ain't getting younger ...

 

Jabez Cowboy

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7 hours ago, Smokestack SASS#87384 said:

I’m sorry that this has been your experience. It certainly is t that way around here. I often tell people that the second best thing about this game (the people are first) is that we all can play how we want and get what we want from the game and all have a good time doing it together. 

So true.

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3 hours ago, Chance Derringer, SASS #19985 said:

There are lots of us that still have fun:-)

Sometimes I have fun seeing how long I can make a stage......

 

 

 

Great scenario!   Only thing it needs is a 6 pane window to knock out. Maybe a curtain to rip down.

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I too am sorry that you feel that way.  My only advice is to try to push those feelings aside.  Continue to enjoy the game your way.  Enjoy the friendship and camaraderie. In the whole scheme of things we spend more time doing that than actually shooting.  Support all the shooters - the fast ones and slow ones, the smokeless and those that leave you coughing, the new shooters and the experienced.  Look for the positives things - the laughter and good natured way we pick on each other, the way everyone helps each other, and so much more.  Find little commonalities in those that you shoot with and carry that into friendships. 

We all are actually enjoying the game the way we like to play it.  From the competitive driven shooter to the one that nearly always finishes last, from those with "race guns" to those with stock guns, from full house loads to those mouse phart loads......   That's the beauty of it.  There's room for all of us.   

 

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10 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

I've seen posts like this in the past...never could understand them. So, I'm trying again.

 

I figured by the sound of things, that if I looked at the club that the OP states as their home club, that I might see some unique grouping of folks. So I looked...

 

By the scores, the club looks like it has the standard variety of competitors. Doesn't looked stacked with "Top Shooters"...has GF's, SS, ES...and so on. Stage times look normal. So I still don't get it.

 

I did notice that the OP hasn't shot at this club since last June. Perhaps he moved to another club and that club has a different set of folks...heck, I don't know. But I'm getting the feeling that the OP (current and those that have made other similar posts in the past), has just lost interest and is looking to put the blame on something that is out of their control.

 

Phantom...still having a good time after 14+ years...and still thinks the folks are great!!!!

 

Statistics do not always represent the truth... But I do the same thing sometimes. 

 

What goes on in the head is not always obvious in real life. At least not in our generation. I saw on the news last night about "Crying Booths" at Collage/Universities.

If we don't dally our words in the height of the game some get the wrong impression sometimes. May your guns be faster than your words...

 

CASS Crying Booth

 

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I can't help but think of what I tell new shooters when they arrive and are nervous. I tell them that while it might seem like everyone is focusing on them, the truth is everyone is focused on themselves and their close competitors. Nobody is paying much attention to what is going on with someone they don't know. If you want to get help getting better in the game, ask. If you want to get help with costuming, ask. If you want help with anything, just ask. You are surrounded by people who are happy to help you find joy in the game in whatever way you choose.

 

Do some people become especially close? Yes. Do the blow-the-boards-off-the-buildings-boomin' black powder shooters become friends? Yep, typically they do. Do the folks with outstanding costumes tend to get to know each other? They do. Do the uber fast shooters become close? No, they just hang out after the match, tell jokes and laugh, sometimes offering up liquor hoping to trick the others into revealing deeply held secrets. Short of liquoring them up, the only way you will learn their secrets is by asking them or, if you want to be really sneaky, look up their videos on YouTube where some of them will help anyone with a computer or smartphone become a better shooter. Did that come off as silly as I meant it to? I hope so.

 

I’ve found that the best shooters among us are at least as friendly as any other group. In general, I find them and most other people to be a joy. Are there exceptions? Sure, in every facet of the game. I’ve encountered shooters who imply that anything less than full house loads is not manly. I could be offended, but why? There are too many awesome people around for me to focus on any one individual or group of individuals who are negative. Plant a joy seed and there are plenty who will tend it with you.

 

If someone is not finding what they’re looking for locally, I'd encourage them to get in their vehicle and travel. It’s out there. . .and in abundance.

 

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I'm very new to the game (4 shoots under my belt and having the best time), not a SASS member yet but I'm working on it. So far, my experience with those around the campfire has been nothing less than extraordinary. Sure, there will always be 1 or 2 who are either super weird or just rub you the wrong way for any number of reasons, that's life. However, except for those 1 or 2 weirdos, EVERYBODY has been very welcoming and encouraging to me.

 

We had our Annual Shootout at Fort Miller last month and my first day started off DISASTROUSLY. The ammo I was using was too short for my primary rifle and locked it up real good, 10 misses. Next stage I switched to my backup rifle and somehow managed to lock that one up real good too. I think the second lock up was user error and not the ammo.  In that moment, I found myself at a crossroads. I could either flip out and throw a temper tantrum (which admittedly sounded the most appealing) or could just chalk it up to experience and enjoy a beautiful day shooting while I looked fantastic in my cowboy duds.  I had a moment of personal growth and chose to enjoy the day. Now, what made the day improve even after 2 stages with 10+ misses was that before I had even made it off the unloading table, I had no less than 3 complete strangers come up to me with offers of ammunition so that I could complete the day and not one would let me pay them for it. 

 

Like the others have said, it's what you want to put in/get out of it that will decide your enjoyment level. I've had to come to the humbling conclusion that I'm just not that good at this game yet, so right now I'm focusing on getting my equipment where it needs to be and looking good. I've met some great people so far and I'm sure I will continue to do so the more time I spend in this game. 

 

I dunno, I kinda got off track and now I'm not sure how to end this ramble. Hope it made sense.

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16 minutes ago, Tall Tale Todd said:

I had no less than 3 complete strangers come up to me with offers of ammunition so that I could complete the day and not one would let me pay them for it. 

 

That's something new shooters have a hard time grasping.  We have new shooters that are short on some or a lot of things but refuse your offer to loan them guns, ammo, or leather.  It's all part of a process to help out new shooters (or each other if need be) get started. Once you get established,  you can then pay back by helping the next new person along.

 

We often bring extra ammo in case we need to loan out a gun.  I have supplied guns to folks that didn't have a full set.  Several folks bring a complete set of backup guns and ammo just in case. 

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The vast, vast majority of folks I've had the pleasure of meeting in my 3-1/2 years in SASS, have been exemplary. Helpful, fun, kind and a pleasure to be around.

 

However, as with any time we humans gather in groups, there are bound to be some people that just rub others the wrong way, for any number of reasons.

 

I'm sure I rub some folks the wrong way and I'm sorry about that.

 

By and large though, there are only a couple that I can say I would not want to associate with and that's having shot in Colorado, Idaho, Wyoming, Illinois, Texas and Arizona. Probably 2 out of several hundred so the odds are in favor of having a great time 99%+ of the time.

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Guest Texas jack Black SASS#9362

Even I still have many who still put up with me. Shows how thick skinned some cowboys are. Still plenty of enjoyment to be had ,you just need to smile .

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In SASS and CAS I've met far more good people than bad, and had more fun than not. A lot of us warned, a decade or more ago, that certain aspects of the sport were being endangered by the quest for ever more speed over fun. That ship has sailed. The speed demon's won the debate. They get to shoot their sort-of-Old-West guns they way they wish. So mote it be. I'll loaf along in second gear like someone above said.

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These diverging views of what SASS ought to be seem to reappear pretty frequently. 

 

A common theme that strikes me is that it's almost always complaints from shooter's who are "just there to have fun" against how those evil speed demons are ruining SASS.  I can't remember the last time I heard a fast shooter complaining about BP shooters or shooters who take 2 minutes to complete a stage, or about being required to perform a non shooting activity.  Instead you have one group who bemoans the lack of 'action' in CAS, btw I like the action part too, and you have another contingent who resent the types of guns fast shooters use.  

 

I truly don't understand the second concern.  If you're just 'there to have fun', why would you care what type of gear another cowboy is using?  How does it hurt you that I have a SS in my rifle?  Why do you care that my pistols have had action jobs?  

 

This is just what I see, but from my perspective fast shooters are a lot more tolerant of other SASS shooters than the reverse.

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It seems to me in my limited experience that age-based, BP, gender, and classic cowboy categories provide adequate recognition of most people doing their best in a subdivision in which they have some chance of being competitive or which simply gives them their satisfaction. However, in my situation, starting out in Elder Statesman, I am up against seasoned and talented shooters with a lot of experience, so I just try to do better than I did previously, get the stage instructions right, and to shoot as cleanly and as smoothly as I can. On a typical stage, if I am shooting at two or three times what the stars are shooting, I feel like I am doing pretty well.

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