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No Room At The Campfire


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On 4/29/2018 at 11:59 PM, Sgt. John Campbell, SASS #58165 said:

I've been shooting CAS since 2004, and over the years, I've enjoyed participating in the sport, and the people that I've met while participating in the sport.  Over the years, however, the focus and direction of the sport has changed dramatically.  We used to do things during matches that were fun, like using props, performing actions both on and off the clock, to make matches a fun event to attend.

 

Lately, the fun aspect of the matches has gone away, in favor of speed over all else.  Any type of action, whether off the clock, or, heaven forbid, on the clock, is strictly frowned upon, and simply not done.  These days, if you do not spend the money to have all of your firearms rebuilt and tuned by the growing number of CAS gunsmiths, you are frowned upon in the sport.  If you shoot loads that actually match factory spec ammo, both for bullet weight and velocity, then again, there is something wrong with you.

 

I come to matches to have fun, and to challenge myself shooting, to hit all of the targets, and to do so in a way that challenges my shooting skills.  I come to matches in proper cowboy attire, and my gear (belt, holsters, etc) is of the style actually used in the old west (my rig is a high ride, double strong side, Cheyenne Double Loop setup).  My pistols have had no gunsmithing done to them, other than the natural smoothing of the action that comes from firing many a thousand of rounds through them.  My rifle and shotgun, again no gunsmithing, just the natural smoothing of the actions produced by firing thousands of rounds through them over the years.

 

My game is my game, and I come to matches to play my game.  Lately though, I've not felt welcome at matches.  Seems that those of us who do not subscribe to the mantra of "speed over all else", are not as welcome to play the game.  Lately, what used to be described as "The Cowboy Way", has been relegated to a distant memory within the sport.  The old SASS saying of "Come for the shooting...Stay for the people", seems to have gone by the wayside, replaced by "Come to see how fast you can shoot".

Yep, nothing but plain vanilla 10-10-4+ stand and deliver.  This was definitely designed for the fast shooters, I burned this stage down in a blistering 70 seconds or so.

 

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some come to a campfire and sit there like a cat wut had it's tail under the rocking chair too many times too

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1 hour ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Yep, nothing but plain vanilla 10-10-4+ stand and deliver.  This was definitely designed for the fast shooters, I burned this stage down in a blistering 70 seconds or so.

 

Heck, that looks like fun to me!!!

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20 20 12+????

 

Sign me up!!!!!!!

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3 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

It was a hoot, 20, 20, 12+ I think.  I had to borrow the last set of pistols and had never shot them before.

 

Well, if nothing else it kept the spotters hashing over the misses and bonuses!:D

 

I wonder how many shooters we would run off if we set up a stage for 10 pistol, 6 shotgun and 20 rifle (a complete reload on the clock), comprised of ten targets at ten yards and 10 at 20 yards?

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4 minutes ago, Deadeye George said:

 

Well, if nothing else it kept the spotters hashing over the misses and bonuses!:D

 

I wonder how many shooters we would run off if we set up a stage for 10 pistol, 6 shotgun and 20 rifle (a complete reload on the clock), comprised of ten targets at ten yards and 10 at 20 yards?

 

I would hope you wouldn't run off anybody. Seems to me that this is a shooting game and we all show up to shoot. More shooting should be more funner, more better.

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7 hours ago, Redwood Kid said:

I don't remember that whisky bottle. I take back all the nice things I said about you!

 

I'll make it up to you next time!

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12 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Now there's a name to remember...but no, it was someone else. Swore that he was going to make it work and never heard back from him on it...might have even been Oddnews, but I don't think so.

 

Hope yer doing well Doc!!!!

 

Phantom

 

Better than in a very long time, thanks for asking.  There's always a seat at the campfire.

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49 minutes ago, Deadeye George said:

 

Well, if nothing else it kept the spotters hashing over the misses and bonuses!:D

 

I wonder how many shooters we would run off if we set up a stage for 10 pistol, 6 shotgun and 20 rifle (a complete reload on the clock), comprised of ten targets at ten yards and 10 at 20 yards?

They used to have a stage kind of like that at Pala occasionally. It was fun but it took a lot of time to shoot because of resetting all of the targets. I’d try it if it doesn’t work you’ve learned a lesson. If it does work do it again.

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53 minutes ago, Deadeye George said:

 

Well, if nothing else it kept the spotters hashing over the misses and bonuses!:D

 

I wonder how many shooters we would run off if we set up a stage for 10 pistol, 6 shotgun and 20 rifle (a complete reload on the clock), comprised of ten targets at ten yards and 10 at 20 yards?

 

I'd love a stage where pistol targets were at 15 to 20 yards and rifle targets at 35 to 40!

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1 hour ago, Deadeye George said:

 

Well, if nothing else it kept the spotters hashing over the misses and bonuses!:D

 

I wonder how many shooters we would run off if we set up a stage for 10 pistol, 6 shotgun and 20 rifle (a complete reload on the clock), comprised of ten targets at ten yards and 10 at 20 yards?

If you don’t mind making the spread between the fast shooters and the rest of the pack bigger and watching shooters fumble and get irritated, have fun. I think that would get more frowns than smiles though. I personally would enjoy the hell out of it. 

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11 hours ago, Deadeye George said:

 

Well, if nothing else it kept the spotters hashing over the misses and bonuses!:D

 

I wonder how many shooters we would run off if we set up a stage for 10 pistol, 6 shotgun and 20 rifle (a complete reload on the clock), comprised of ten targets at ten yards and 10 at 20 yards?

I seriously doubt that anyone would "run off"...oy...

 

But you will get a serious log jam on that stage...which will end up making some folks not happy.

 

Phantom

 

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Sgt. John,

I went back and reread your original post.  I cannot say that you're wrong, because you have experienced what you have experienced.  I haven't walked a mile in your shoes.

All I can say is that i haven't had the negative experiences you've had.  I'm a Frontiersman shooter, and by the nature of the beast, that makes me slower.  I shoot with some very fast shooters.  Some, among the fastest in the country.  Some are very reserved and don't say much... but after they've timed me, will give me some excellent tips on what I can do better.  Others are the happier, louder types, easy with a smile or laugh.  They run the gamut of normal human behavior and affect.  But, no one's ever sneered at me or given me the least bit of attitude over box stock guns.  I've got some original Winchesters and Colts.  No, I'm not going to short-stroke them.

There is the occasional "stand and deliver", but these are getting to be rare.  No, I don't see the more complicated stages with a lot of non-shooting stuff on the clock anymore. I don't hear a stage "story" read before the instructions anymore.  I haven't ridden a stick horse in more than a decade.  I haven't seen a stage where we start prone under a wagon, or in a bathtub, or sitting on the ground among hay bales facing the wrong way, anymore. (But, you'd need a crane to pick me up if you did that.)  I'm seeing more movement lately.  I don't mind stages with a lot of movement, even if they make my gimpy, arthritic knees and ankles hurt more.  It's part of the game and I'll do just as fast as I can.  You write it, I'll shoot it! 

In fact, I'm up for whatever the stage might be.  But, the fast shooters will still be the faster shooters and the slow ones (I'll raise my hand here), will still be the slower shooters.

I'm away from the shooting at the moment, waiting for my eyeballs to heal up after surgery.  My dominant eye is all blurry still, can't focus it yet.  But, I can't wait to get back to it.  I'm getting cabin fever!

 

I hope you find a way to have fun at your matches.  If it's not fun, there's no point to it.  Certainly not for the rich prize money.

 

Respectfully,

~Duc~

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On 4/29/2018 at 11:59 PM, Sgt. John Campbell, SASS #58165 said:

I've been shooting CAS since 2004, and over the years, I've enjoyed participating in the sport, and the people that I've met while participating in the sport.  Over the years, however, the focus and direction of the sport has changed dramatically.  We used to do things during matches that were fun, like using props, performing actions both on and off the clock, to make matches a fun event to attend.

 

Lately, the fun aspect of the matches has gone away, in favor of speed over all else.  Any type of action, whether off the clock, or, heaven forbid, on the clock, is strictly frowned upon, and simply not done.  These days, if you do not spend the money to have all of your firearms rebuilt and tuned by the growing number of CAS gunsmiths, you are frowned upon in the sport.  If you shoot loads that actually match factory spec ammo, both for bullet weight and velocity, then again, there is something wrong with you.

 

I come to matches to have fun, and to challenge myself shooting, to hit all of the targets, and to do so in a way that challenges my shooting skills.  I come to matches in proper cowboy attire, and my gear (belt, holsters, etc) is of the style actually used in the old west (my rig is a high ride, double strong side, Cheyenne Double Loop setup).  My pistols have had no gunsmithing done to them, other than the natural smoothing of the action that comes from firing many a thousand of rounds through them.  My rifle and shotgun, again no gunsmithing, just the natural smoothing of the actions produced by firing thousands of rounds through them over the years.

 

My game is my game, and I come to matches to play my game.  Lately though, I've not felt welcome at matches.  Seems that those of us who do not subscribe to the mantra of "speed over all else", are not as welcome to play the game.  Lately, what used to be described as "The Cowboy Way", has been relegated to a distant memory within the sport.  The old SASS saying of "Come for the shooting...Stay for the people", seems to have gone by the wayside, replaced by "Come to see how fast you can shoot".

I haven't been shooting SASS very long but found myself doing what your talking about. I can be a very competitive person and have been shooing for a very very longtime. After retiring from the military and then contracting overseas wanted to find something fun, looked into 3 gun and didn't like the way people were so competitive, and not very helpful, then found SASS. After sometime I started getting quicker, then my competitive streak started kicking in 100% and I found if I had a bad stage I would kick myself that is when I took a look at myself and seen I was becoming "THAT GUY"! The guy or lady that can't have fun unless they are winning every time they compete. I also started to notice that the fun was giving way to the competition, and this really is just a game it means NOTHING in the end if you can't have fun doing it IMHO. I have played the game for real on a two way shooting range more then I care to remember and thinking of this put everything back in prospective for me. I changed my shooting to Outlaw where I expect to miss and never be towards the top overall of a match, and I will tell you the fun factor has taken over again.

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17 hours ago, Dantankerous said:

 

I would hope you wouldn't run off anybody. Seems to me that this is a shooting game and we all show up to shoot. More shooting should be more funner, more better.

Agreed. That was maybe the only flaw at Comancheria Days this past April. Everything ran so efficiently, the first morning we were done before 11:30. Day two we finished about 3:30. Seemed like the blink of an eye and we have finished 6 stages each day.

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13 hours ago, Doc Shapiro said:

 

I'd love a stage where pistol targets were at 15 to 20 yards and rifle targets at 35 to 40!

If you ever feel like taking a longer than normal drive, down at Morgan Hill every other month we have a "remember Chabot" match, where the targets are that distance or further, 10 second misses, and stoked shotguns, and big bore rifles allowed. Also strange things like 15-20 rifle stages or whatever else the MD can think up, usually based on what guns he bought that week and wants to try out. Last time he used a revolving carbine! It's really different and a lot of fun.

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1 hour ago, Chili Pepper Jack said:

I haven't been shooting SASS very long but found myself doing what your talking about. I can be a very competitive person and have been shooing for a very very longtime. After retiring from the military and then contracting overseas wanted to find something fun, looked into 3 gun and didn't like the way people were so competitive, and not very helpful, then found SASS. After sometime I started getting quicker, then my competitive streak started kicking in 100% and I found if I had a bad stage I would kick myself that is when I took a look at myself and seen I was becoming "THAT GUY"! The guy or lady that can't have fun unless they are winning every time they compete. I also started to notice that the fun was giving way to the competition, and this really is just a game it means NOTHING in the end if you can't have fun doing it IMHO. I have played the game for real on a two way shooting range more then I care to remember and thinking of this put everything back in prospective for me. I changed my shooting to Outlaw where I expect to miss and never be towards the top overall of a match, and I will tell you the fun factor has taken over again.

Thanks for the honesty!  ;-)

 

More of us fall into this than we realize. Very often bad experiences noted here are more about 'self frustration' for one reason than another, rather than about what someone else is doing.

 

Look at the background of many SASS shooters. Vets, LEO's, etc. A tough bunch to try to curb! Can be very opinionated (as would be expected).

 

Just look at this thread (and others). There are more good storied than bad. Some folks just get a little butt hurt sometimes when it wasn't really intentional to start.

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58 minutes ago, Blast Masterson said:

Thanks for the honesty!  ;-)

 

More of us fall into this than we realize. Very often bad experiences noted here are more about 'self frustration' for one reason than another, rather than about what someone else is doing.

 

Look at the background of many SASS shooters. Vets, LEO's, etc. A tough bunch to try to curb! Can be very opinionated (as would be expected).

 

Just look at this thread (and others). There are more good storied than bad. Some folks just get a little butt hurt sometimes when it wasn't really intentional to start.

I was one of them Blast, needed to step back and look in the mirror very happy I did. Don't get me wrong still like doing the best I can but trying to stay focused on fun was the key for me. It is a good bunch of people that is why I look forward to getting together with them one to two times a month.

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2 hours ago, Redwood Kid said:

If you ever feel like taking a longer than normal drive, down at Morgan Hill every other month we have a "remember Chabot" match, where the targets are that distance or further, 10 second misses, and stoked shotguns, and big bore rifles allowed. Also strange things like 15-20 rifle stages or whatever else the MD can think up, usually based on what guns he bought that week and wants to try out. Last time he used a revolving carbine! It's really different and a lot of fun.

Colorado Shaketails were like that a couple of years ago when I shot with them once. Plus, the targets were about 1/3 to 1/2 the size of what I normally see and they are/were very fond of clubs, spades, diamonds, hearts.

 

But after watching several folks sweep other shooters with barrels and being informed that, "Well, they were empty and clear", I decided not to go back.

 

Hopefully that aspect has changed.

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i gotta say i enjoy all that come to the campfire - im not one of the vocal ones most times , i find i enjoy hearing what others have to say when they are more open of their thoughts , as to the changes - yup ive seen them too , but i find it has to do with the local/vs/state matches i attend - there's still less regiment at locals in general in my mind , 

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9 hours ago, Lost Trail said:

Colorado Shaketails were like that a couple of years ago when I shot with them once. Plus, the targets were about 1/3 to 1/2 the size of what I normally see and they are/were very fond of clubs, spades, diamonds, hearts.

 

But after watching several folks sweep other shooters with barrels and being informed that, "Well, they were empty and clear", I decided not to go back.

 

Hopefully that aspect has changed.

 

I started with the Shaketails back in ‘04. The game they played was Cowboy Accuracy Shooting and it was nothing like what everybody else is playing at the time, or now. It took me two years to shoot a clean match and I ain’t no slouch with a pistol. I even designated a right and left pistol because of the microscopic differences in their POI vs POA. Over time I got bored shooting slow and wondered about all this talk on the Wire about fast and close, and as I visited more clubs I quickly acclimated to shooting as fast as I can, such as that is. It’s gonna take a flu epidemic for me to win a buckle but as long as I can shave a few tenths of here and there I’m enjoying playing my game.

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