Blast Masterson

It is more about the difference between a rifle and a pistol than .22 vs .17. Both will work fine at pistol ranges. But when you get past pistol distances you gain very little from the pistol. The .17 extends the max effective distance of a .22 (we all know how far we can effectively shoot with a .22 rifle or pistol). If you can shoot 50% further with a .17, that distance in a rifle is significantly further than the same 50% out of a pistol. Also you must subtract the performance factor between bbl lengths in rifle vs pistol. Any advantage you gain with a .17 in a pistol is hardly worth it. Once you get past the max effective range of a .22 pistol your sights start to get in the way at greater distance and accuracy degrades because of the sight picture negating advantages you picked up with the .17. We are talking about a Supper Six. Now if you use a scoped long bbl pistol in .17, things start to change for the better. Think of a 30-30 rifle vs. pistol. You load from rifle powder to pistol powder and your using a long single shot pistol. .22 to .17 your using the same load designed for a rifle. If you really want to blow stuff up, the little high speed .17 will do that for you better than a .22. BTW: are we talking .22 mag vs .17 ? Like Widder, I'm making this stuff up. I own a .17 but I would never buy a .17 revolver. My experience is with rifles in these calibers.

In my opinion, .17 is a rifle cart. but in a revolver that would not be a factor, Agreed- I see no advantage when considering pistol range limitations. I find wind, brush etc. affects accuracy of the .17 cal. more than .22 cal. The .17 cal explodes on impact (with about anything), which is nice if you need control with what is down range.

I changed to Ultra-Lite from using 700X. At lite loading 700x was filthy and actually caught a hull on fire (on the range)! I posted this incident elsewhere here.

Alliant Extra Lite was designed for the exact load your looking for... https://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/Powder.aspx?powderid=28 One of the cheapest powders by Alliant @ $22/lb

I have no intention of "complaining" to anyone. All this is above my pay grade. I am assuming here, but the short stroke is described and limitations have been placed on it in the SHB. If it is not a written modification by SASS it too will be illegal (as stated in the SHB). All I'm asking is if SASS sanctioned the the lever lock (and/or the short stroke), it must be in a written reply somewhere. So show me... I'm not asking if this device should be allowed. I'm asking if it has been. My concern is because of the perceived safety issues of dropping the hammer to release the lever, not because someone who jacks rounds will possibly beat me in a match with the device. I interpret "the external operation of the gun." as how the gun now operates the external lever which now prevents extraction of a potential live round in the rifle without having to drop the hammer to make the rifle safe, not how it changes the looks of internal components. Can you lower the hammer over a live round without incident? Sure, but it's not allowed. Modern pump shotguns have the same lock which prevents operation of the slide unless the trigger is pulled. But they also have an external unlocking lever, which this device does not provide.

It prevents opening (and making the rifle safe) without dropping the hammer over a live round. So I perceive this as affecting the external operation. I am asking for the required documentation on the decision by SASS, not an assumption or opinion. Already discussed: These items have been approved through SASS (written down in the shooters handbook) therefor there is no need to make these comparisons as they went through SASS. What I am asking is, was this device written and accepted by SASS (but not yet listed in the Handbook)? I practice with rifle and pistols that are not short stroked. Both my match rifle and pistols are manufactured to SASS standards (they were not modified after market). These modifications were accepted by SASS with stipulations. There is a difference. - - - - - - - - - - - I am not a purest, I'm simply playing devils advocate and discussing my observations. I am not afraid to discuss things that go against the flow of those established shooters of this game. It's not about being confrontational. As you can see by all the quotes in my post, I'm not making opinion, I'm discussing established rules. I am open to changing my opinion if someone can enlighten me that this issue was addressed and approved by SASS as written in the the Handbook concerning adoption of changes to the rule (not just that short strokes are ok so everything else must be ok. I would appreciate facts, not just more opinions about perceived rules.

I see a lot of "Opinion" in this thread. So let's look at facts as written. If this sport has nothing to do with; firearms typical of those used in the taming of the Old West Old West style vintage firearm must be typical of the late 19th century how it would have been in the Old West traditions of the Old West available during the cowboy era. typical of the period from approximately 1860 until 1899 why is it referenced so often? Can someone provide written SASS approval of this lever lock system? Shooters may not "complain at main matches", but I'll bet a few members may be rubbed the wrong way with some of this stuff. Is this stuff not still applicable? ... does this stuff no longer apply to the game? The rules go so far as... Wearing a short sleeve shirt is a SDQ? Repeated occurrence is a MDQ. Why, because you have an unfair advantage? I don't think so. I really don't care about the life lock system issue specifically, but I do care about SASS standards and feel everyone should play the game as written. If this is SASS sanctioned, fine. But I'd like to understand why it was allowed when other insignificant restrictions are still on the books. Many things are allowed in the handbook (like the short stroke). But they are spelled out and have limitations and restrictions. I'm not talking about that. But just because a short stroke was allowed, does not make all other modifications automatically acceptable. Every jacked round is 5 sec. A short stroke does not give you a 5 sec. advantage. A lever lock does. This device warrants it's own category in my opinion. Several gun modifications are sanctioned, so long as they do not create a shooting advantage. A grip enhancement improves safety. A Lever Lock decreases safety by preventing making a rifle safe without dropping the hammer. So my question is, was this device SASS sanctioned? If so, why?

Seeing we are not "seeing", everything is "opinion". I can think of several people to blame besides the shooter. Who wrote the stage? Who set up the stage? Who built the stage? Obstruction of the shooting practice, is not a safety to the shooter obstruction. So now we are closely approaching a "Failure to engage" penalty? We are getting close to splitting hairs with the rules. Also getting close to intentionally trying to eliminate a competitor from the running. Not every shooter shoots a stage the same way. If the 5th shooter shoots a sequence that results in an unforeseen fall and gun drop (under no fault of their own), there is no reason for everyone to require an auto re-shoot. The point is, someone fixed the obstruction because it was an obvious obstruction for that particular stage sequence. What happened to the benefit of the doubt going to the shooter? Dropping a gun is a safety to others, just as a stage obstruction creates a safety issue to all. Fix it and move on. Be thankful not one got hurt. You don't need to intentionally destroy someone's day over something no one noticed. It's called an accident.

This is such bureaucratic BS! They create the problem and charge us to fix their screw up. When I applied for my Carry Permit in my state I presented my DD214 to cover the fees and training requirements. They said I needed a birth certificate. I said you can't have a DD214 w/o a birth certificate. The said "Oh yes you can, now". I said "Oh yea, Illegals". Half the place about headed for the door. When I returned with my birth certificate, they rejected my DD214 for training. It listed all weapons and qualifications I had. I came unhinged, again! So now my DD214 is worthless?! A supervisor showed up to the fight. She told the clerk, "How did he get qualified without training?". You have a drivers license. The process required your age, your residence, your physical profile, drivers testing. Your SS Card was required because of your origin of birth and date. It's just a card with a number on it. It's almost unreadable because of it's age, but you can't protect it with lamination. Your birth certificate is just a piece of paper with no identification that it's really you. Now your required to have a passport or new license. What will it take to get that? One thing is $$$. You already have a drivers license with a huge paper trail attached to it. Now it's worthless. All over a little star. If you have all the crap they require to get a passport or new license, why is that paperwork not sufficient all by it self? Next we will need a GPS implant... But you can be a border jumper, be given a SSAN, a drivers license, and qualify for free health care and the other 327 million of us have to get a little star on a new license based upon documents that has been rendered worthless, which is why we need a little star in the first place! Cost of a new license x 327,000,000 = ?!

In this case the shooter will not be arriving at the ULT with a loaded firearm, the TO secures them and brings them to the table.

The shooter is not in control of the stage. Why should the shooter be responsible and carry the penalty? Pg 20: Reshoots are not awarded for ammunition or firearm malfunctions. However, if there is a range failure (failure of props, failure of the timer, or Range Officer interference) beyond the competitor’s control, a reshoot may be granted.

It's only a 93, shoot the thing and enjoy!

Be careful giving TW hugs, he's a sticky critter and smells of nanners!

My daughter ran off to the west coast. She has tats and dreads (before she left Tn). On a recent visit while out in public she had a melt down over people "Looking at her". Well what the **** do you expect? Isn't that what you did that for in the first place? It's our fault that you stick out like a sore thumb? Believe it or not, she is politically conservative and carries a gun...! I suspect she has been among the walking dead for too long. From another perspective; when you open carry in Walmart and have issues with people looking at you and feeling uncomfortable, what the hell do you expect? I carry a gun 24/7 and my wife tells me she feels uncomfortable around people in Walmart carrying guns in the open. Why shouldn't she? She knows nothing about these gun toting folks. I don't feel comfortable either the way some of these clowns look otherwise. If your state law does not allow concealed w/o permit is one thing (and that needs to be changed). That becomes the norm. But to strap on a gun and parade around in Walmart because you can, makes some people uncomfortable around you and will be the ones at the polls that pull the lever for gun control. For every action there is an opposite and adverse reaction. Gun laws are really screwed up and we allow them to happen. In Tn anyone can have a gun in their car (Castle Doctrine). But it can't be on your person (in your car). How do you get it in/out your car if it's not on your person? A new less demanding CCW permit is being purposed. But you must carry concealed. So what happens when the wind blows or you show your "plumbers crack" loading groceries in your car? Are we just being set up? Yes we are... "We gave them permission and now they are abusing it..." The 2nd amendment is all we need. Not a bunch of catch 22 laws that give permission when permission is not theirs to give. LGBTQ and Gun Control are not the issues we will have to deal with. We can all get along just fine if neither "sticks it in your face"! Gun Rights folks are not here with guns to take away your LGBTQ rights, but I assure you it's not the other way around. These people are activists (for the most part) and will ride any bus that comes along. We should never allow compromise of our rights and freedoms for the sake of making anyone feel comfortable! I won't bully you or violate your constitutional rights, but don't you require I service your mental and emotional needs. And keep your hands off my guns.

I was on line ordering parts for my MEC and came across the Ruger Wrangler for $199 somehow and couldn't help myself but to buy a pair to cut down on reloading time and now that .22 ammo is back to $.03/shot and in abundance... Before going to the range for qualification back when I was on the job, I'd shoot my dbl action .22 for practice. It was not a slicked up gun like my service revolver, and demanded more shooting ability. Basically I was wanting to work on muscle memory to prepare for the main event (especially with dbl action, week hand). So I ordered a matches set of Wranglers. Here is my assessment: The gun had good heft, in spite of the cast frame. The grips are the same size as my other Rugers. Construction and design was also similar. Watching videos I could see that there was a hard hammer and loading gate. Both of my guns had very rough and hard hammers. The trigger spring was heavy (good for the first time shooter who will most likely be buying a cheap gun like this). Pulling back the hammer I could feel a significant loading of the trigger spring half way back. I simply straightened the spring (just inside the grips) which significantly improved hammer pull. Bend the spring straight to where there is just enough pressure to hold it in place unloaded. As posted here, removing one leg of the trigger spring also works to correct this (but you can't put it back once done). To correct the hammer pull I found that my old (new version) Vaquero hammer springs fit this gun. I had previously reduced the spring diameter of these Vaquero springs before my spring kits arrived. This helped dramatically, but could go a bit lighter. I am "training' with these guns, not competing. The heavier (acceptable) hammer pull is good for training. Being a rimfire, you can't expect to go as light as your CAS guns. The other option for most is noted above by replacing with 17#-19# springs. When replacing springs, the use of a bench vise and vise-grip pliers is a breeze to a difficult task. removing the spring assembly from the frame was not as easy as Vaquero due to close clearance. Tucking the trigger spring leg behind the hammer spring allows for more clearance but still requires a little persuasion. To the range: First order of business, shoot some paper! Both guns shot slightly low at 7 O'clock (which is easily correctable if desired). I want to see more front sight when I shoot steel so this puts them right on for me. I was shooting the cheapest bulk ammo I had (which causes problems with my auto loader). Everything was acceptable after 150 rounds. The loading gate is a bear! Due to the size of the frame for this small caliber, there is not much meat on the gate. It comes to a sharp angle and the heavy spring pressure compounds this issue. I have not attempted a fix. Hope someone will post if they find the solution. I use deer antler to open the gates when loading to save my thumb for shooting. Opening the gate allows rotating the cylinder in either direction without "Clicks". Some shooters (actually many) do not like this option. #1 "It make it hard to unload". If you hold the gun so you can see the front of the cylinder, you can align with the extractor with ease. #2 "I don't need the cylinder to spin backwards." Well, the cylinder is recessed and you can not see a loaded chamber from the side of the gun. This makes loading five difficult. The ability to spin backwards and put the empty under the hammer and closing the gate makes for short and accurate work out of this. Opening the gate puts the gun into safe mode. You can not do anything but move the cylinder when the gate is open. This is great for the new shooters. I have see old shooters hit themselves in the face with an empty case blowing back with the gate open too. You can not "Thumbslip" this gun with the hammer pulled. I'm a gunfighter so I don't care. This is a safety issue to protect a new shooter I'd guess. This is a subject for a later date. Not one that I will peruse as I don't need it. Hopefully someone else will reply. All in all this <$200 gun has a thumbs up from me! Yes there are better guns for more than twice the cost, but my goal is to shoot more, for less. You can buy two for the price of one and get those new shooters started with something they can handle as well! This all goes south if ammo hording and govt. interference occurs again... But for now I can get .22 from Mid South Shooters Supply for $.03/round and that makes me happy.