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Roger Rapid

Sending scenarios to shooters before a match?

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Wondering if any of you match directors are sending out your scenarios prior to a match for your shooters to review? Sending scenarios early has positives and negatives: On the positive side, it becomes a promotional effort to entice your shooters to come to a match. It also gives the shooters a chance to review the scenarios with the hope they can do better. On the negative side, if shooters don’t like some of the scenarios they might not come to the match (although I don't think this is likely). Also, some might consider it “gaming” to give shooters an edge. Lastly, it may be a little more work to attach scenarios to your email notices, but not really a big deal in the scheme of things.
 
The thought was sparked by a SASSwire post we have going about PRVC's Virtual Cowboy Shooting scenarios and Virtual Shot Timer. In addition to the SASSwire post, we also sent out an email announcement to our club members and our promotional list about our club's Virtual Shooting web page, and we have received several responses from folks who have seen the scenarios asking if they can "shoot our Virtual stages at a real match?"
 
Interested to learn your thoughts…
 
RR

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To make it easier, you could also post the match description on your club’s FB page and website to reach a wider audience.  

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Posted (edited)

A while back the Eldorado Cowboys started posting upcoming stages on their website.  If I remember correctly it was greeted with positive replies.  

 

Edit to add:  Dang, Photo Shooter beat me by the click of a shutter. :lol:

Edited by Shooting Bull

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I don’t see where it can be seen as “gaming”. Everyone gets to see the stages. 

I feel it has more to do with getting to see the shot sequence more than the stage because you can’t tell how far apart distances are from one shooting position to another or how the targets may be staggered left/right or up/down until you see the actual stage. I like it when a club posts the stages. 

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I don't consider a problem sending out or posting match scenerios.   After all, how many

ways is there to practice Nevada Sweeps and other shooting scenarios that we've all been

doing for years.

 

I think when a Match Director tries to share as much info about a match as possible,

it a very good thing.   Not only scenarios, but vendors who are planning to attend.

 

AND..... I like to see a 'Who is Coming' shooters list posted.   These can become very exciting,

especially within the realms of competition and friends.

 

..........Widder

 

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Annual matches I might look at them. Monthly matches I don't care, seems like time could be spent for something more constructive. Scenarios never look the same digitally as in reality, not really something to be gained other than learning the sequences. As a MD I don't have time to put out scenarios for monthly matches, I still work for a living. 

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27 minutes ago, Shooting Bull said:

A while back the Eldorado Cowboys started posting upcoming stages on their website.  If I remember correctly it was greeted with positive replies.  

 

Edit to add:  Dang, Photo Shooter beat me by the click of a shutter. :lol:

We do not publish the stages for Best Shoot by a Dam Site (May 01 and 02) as the stages sometimes change right up to the point of publishing the shooters books. Which is done about a week prior to the match.

Eldorado is a different story. We try and get the stages posted to the Website about a month before the shoot. It allows many sets of eyes to catch spelling errors and other minor mistakes before the shooters books are printed.

On the down side, sometimes you have to answer the same question 15 times in emails. ie: With first five rounds sweep the five targets beginning on either end THEN with second five rounds sweep the five targets beginning on either end..... QUESTION IN EMAIL "Can I double tap the end target of the first sweep"? Questions like this are best left for the stage reading on the stage.

 

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I used do this about seven years ago for our monthly matches.  I asked the shooters to review for safety and suggestions to make them better.  In all honesty, very few of the shooters actually reviewed the stages.

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The match director for the Whiskey Row Gunslingers emails the monthly stages to us. Everyone seems to like it, (I do) it gives all of  us a few days to dry fire practice at home. 

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Has anyone ever put together a "book" of stages? In light of the current situation, I would think it would be nice just to have more references for dry fire practice and then there would be a good "goto" for MDs to put stages together. 

To be honest, I don't think I'll ever get a military sweep right. (Heck, I don't even know if I got it right when I actually shot it.)

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All good input - thanks!!!! And just for clarification I was referring to regular monthly matches. (I'm not sure that we'd want to post our Annual Lazy Arrow ShootOut scenarios prior to the match.)

Thx...

RR

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In Florida, The OK Corral outlaws, The Gold coast gunslingers and the Okeechobee Marshals all Email their stages out before their monthly shoots and everyone seems to like it. However, we don't do it for our annuals. 

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I don't like it......just gives me more time to figure out how to screw it up.:rolleyes:

 

Seriously though, doesn't matter to me......everything always works on paper.

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I usually put our stages on our website about a week before the match as an "Easter Egg". Most of our members know where to look if they want them. 

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6 minutes ago, Hendo said:

Has anyone ever put together a "book" of stages? In light of the current situation, I would think it would be nice just to have more references for dry fire practice and then there would be a good "goto" for MDs to put stages together. 

To be honest, I don't think I'll ever get a military sweep right. (Heck, I don't even know if I got it right when I actually shot it.)

 

Howdy Hendo! As a matter of fact, our Club, the Pozo River Vigilance Committee, has done just that! We have created and posted 24 scenarios tailored for "Virtual" practice based on our 12 bays at PRVC, and even have a "Virtual Shot Timer" you can use right at home.

 

image.thumb.png.742d348281c9569949b90c3c81138af3.png

 

 

 

Here is the post that tells all about it:

 

https://forums.sassnet.com/index.php?/topic/299509-prvcs-virtual-cowboy-shooting/

 

And here is the direct link to our "Virtual Cowboy Shooting" page:

 

http://www.prvcatlazyarrow.com/prvcatylazyarrow.com/Virtual_Cowboy_Shooting.html

 

Please comment on the above wire post to let us know what you think, and promote it among all of us who can't get out to shoot right now.

 

Stay healthy and safe.

 

 

 

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I like seeing the stages prior to a shoot.  I would not worry about shooters not coming due to the stages being posted, but rather hooters who came and tell their friends what a bad experience they had.  Most AZ clubs post their stages prior to the shoot.  As said on many different posts for other reasons, the shooters on top will most likely stay on top as long as we are shooting by the same rules.  

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1 hour ago, Mister Badly said:

I like the idea. Second sweep from either end is always a double tap.:D

IIRC that is called a Dirty Sweep. Usually, I've seen a statement in the scenario saying DT okay or Dirty Sweep okay. Many people know it's okay if it isn't specifically prohibited. Some people don't know and will ask.  Having the statement in the scenario, facilitates the walk through.

 

I never look at scenarios before monthly matches. I review them when I get my shooter's booklet at annuals. There is no harm in sending them out in advance. I don't begrudge people who are willing to spend time practicing them before a match. If I was a contender who didn't have the time to do so, I might have a different opinion.

 

PS I've even written a Shooters' Booklet for annuals, including typing the scenarios and still got a P. Duh!:lol: This reinforces my desire to read them at the match. Those with better long-term memory, may disagree. :)

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I like that my club does it.  But I only ever read them if I can't make the match.  Lets me sit there and mope another 15 minutes about all the fun I'm gunna miss.  It's not that I want to avoid being called a gamer, it's because I wouldn't remember it by match time anyway. 

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As a monthly match I haven't sent them out nor would i. I've seen too many people piss and moan about the slightest things.   It's a headache waiting to happen.  Somebody gets beat and all the drama about how it's unfair that some checked their email and others didn't,  or they never got it. 

 

  Then the email s about can I do this or that.     The simplest stages you normally have to explain at least three times anyway, I'm not going to do it for a week by email to then do it again in person at the match.   If someone truly doesn't understand a stage I have no problem handing off the timer and going over it with them away from the line until they get it  As many times as it takes but I'm not going to spend my limited free time at home doing it.  

 

 Basically a long winded way of saying I see absolutely no benefit and tons of headache by sending then out

 

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As match director I post the stages for the NYS wild bunch on the website a week before the match.  I do so because I also write the stages and shoot the match so I feel this gives my competitors an even playing field.   I like seeing other shoots stages ahead of time because then I know if there's going to be knockdowns and I need to bring other ammo.

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I am a FIRM proponent of providing match information to interested shooters.

 

When I was match director for Desert Desperados - I posted every monthly stage to our website two weeks before our match.

 

When I was match director for Eldorado Cowboys - I posted our annual events; Dam Site and the Nevada State Championship, Eldorado to our website.

I prefer posting over emailing them so that ANYONE visiting the website has access instead of only a select few on the clubs mailing list.

 

Since I'm creating the stages in a digital format anyways - placing them on the website and posting them afterwards is an insignificant amount of additional effort.

 

I don't buy the, "seeing them early confuses your shooters" theory.

 

If you write bad stages - poorly communicate your desires or the shooters options - lay your graphics out incorrectly and poorly represent your actual range; that's on you as the match director.

 

And those faults and challenges will still exist whether the shooters see them for the first time the day of the match or 90 days prior.

 

As a match director; I loved hearing from my shooters and answering their questions - I used those questions to write my stages better the next time, so I could answer their questions before they asked them.

 

And I loved hearing shooters tell me how seeing the stages beforehand got them excited and looking forward to the match.

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We nearly always email our shooters the scenarios for our monthlies.  It seems to be well received and brings in a few more shooters.  I'm with Creeker; if your shooters get confused by getting the scenario early, it's the writer's fault.

 

Possum

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All but one club in my area sends the stages out about five days before the match. Never at annuals. I prefer seeing the stages. If you don't send them out than things are still equal except for the stage writer who then has an advantage. 

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We just don't have the manpower.......I would like to but I spend that time focusing on the match because IMO that's what brings people back. 

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5 hours ago, Cowboy Junky said:

We just don't have the manpower.......I would like to but I spend that time focusing on the match because IMO that's what brings people back. 

Not trying to argue or be rude...

 

How are you "writing" your match?

If you are using any digital medium - it is incredibly easy/ instant to convert files to PDF for anyone to open and view in an email or from a webpage.

 

If your club has bulk email service - creating a few sentences of email; 

Howdy, the Lonsome Coyotes will be shooting six stages Saturday at the Coyote Gulch range.

Setup at 7am - safety meeting at 8:30.

The stages are attached for your review.

Hope to see you there.

 

And attach the PDF file.  Hit send.

Takes all of 10 minutes.

 

If your club has a website.

Create an upcoming match stages tab; so you always have a dedicated space.

Upload the file and you're done.

 

Again, 10-15 minutes.

 

If you're trying to do it all yourself - ask for help.

I'm sure your shooters appreciate your great matches - providing the stages just makes them appreciate everything even more.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Creeker - thanks for the input and the Q's. We do several things: 1) We have a monthly newsletter that addresses several topics and includes our calendar of events. 2) We do send out two reminders before each match - one that is two Mondays prior to the match, and the second that is the Monday before the match. 3) We do have a website that has several tabs that includes our Shooting Schedule.

 

Our scenarios are typically written a few weeks before each match so, it is VERY easy for us to attach PDFs to the email blast(s). At the moment, after hearing all this positive responses about sending out scenarios early, our plan is to send them with the second email blast (on the Monday prior to our Saturday match).

 

One of our deputies, Bushy Blonco, suggested that from time to time we'd send include one scenario that was a surprise stage - in which the scenario page might have a big question mark ("?") on the page - sounds like a fun idea.

 

Our matches are the fourth Saturday of every month and we send out scores via email on the evening of our matches (sometimes it is Sunday morning before they are sent out).

 

As to "how are we writing our match," we create them in WORD and then convert them to PDF, and our page formats are all the same for consistency purposes. (We have another post going on "Virtual Cowboy Shooting" in which we posted 24 of our scenarios. While these have slightly different wording like "until you envision it going down" because of the virtual shooting idea, they are basically the format of our regular scenarios. If interested, you can see them by clicking here:  SAMPLE SCENARIO   )

 

You've all provided great input here, and it's helped us decide to send scenarios early... THANKS TO ALL!!!!!

 

RR

 

Edited by Roger Rapid

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At The Black Hand Raiders,  I post stages ahead of time to our website.  Most shooters comment positively about it.   Our stages page has a disclaimer that you may shoot something else when you arrive (weather, range conditions, setup not safe as envisioned, etc.)   95% of the time it is what is posted. 

 

I started doing this after attending state and other large matches where you get the shooters book at registration, so you can plan ahead on some stages.  

 

Seems to be working well.

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Posted (edited)

Greenhorn perspective as I shot my first CAS match last August and my first 2 Day annual match a few weeks ago before the COVID pandemic shut matches down.  When I first started, receiving match scenarios ahead of the match helped me out.  Not being familiar with shooting cowboy stages it helped me quickly get up to speed on sweeps, transitions between firearms, and I think generally being a safe participant.  Not having years of experience shooting cowboy stages, I believe it helps me get mentally organized before the match, takes a bit of the anxiety out and adds in a bit more fun.  When I get a match scenario I look for stages scenarios that I haven't seen before and mentally shoot them in order to become more familiar with the stage and not be a total train wreck when the buzzer goes off.  Not that I haven't got to the line and needed a bit of coaching when there where two more shotgun knockdowns left that I totally forgot about.  At my one and only 2-Day annual match I just shot, I took a different approach.  While I did pick up the match book the day before, I was so busy getting ready that I just glanced at it for anything that might trip me up and not seeing anything I thought I couldn't handle I just listened up real good when the posse leader went over the stage and then mentally shot the stage before it was my turn while waiting at the loading table.  I ended up doing pretty good considering.  All in all, I believe it's a positive to receive match scenarios before hand, at least for this greenhorn.

 

My club's match director, Major BS Walker does a great job in getting match scenarios out in advance as well as other Match Directors at the other clubs I shoot at.  All in a format that I think minimizes confusion and errors. 

Edited by Bingo Montana
Added clarifying content.
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If every stage is a variant of a standard 10-10-4 arrangement, then I really see no need.    But if there's gonna be something unusual in one or more of the stages, like one stage has a full pistol reload or a dump target for everything or all knock downs or an usual target or some unexpected activity, it's a good idea to let that be known in advance so people can be prepared.

At the same time though, for the annual matches, I think's a good idea to send out all the stage descriptions, just because.  You're gonna get them eventually in your shooters packet, so there's no harm in getting them out earlier if feasible.  

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Both clubs I shoot at make the scenarios available the week before the match. As a new shooter, having a chance to look at and study the scenarios ahead of time has been very helpful. Particularly for those first five matches it made me more comfortable and able to concentrate on all the other things that I had to remember (safety rules and procedures, folks names, loading, trying to help out a little, etc.). 

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I always send them.  You don't have to read them.

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, Major BS Walker Regulator said:

All but one club in my area sends the stages out about five days before the match. Never at annuals. I prefer seeing the stages. If you don't send them out than things are still equal except for the stage writer who then has an advantage. 

I find this hilarious!   Because I consistently see the scenario writer get more P's than anyone else.  And this most certainly includes me when I write them. :rolleyes:

 

Possum

Edited by Possum Skinner, SASS#60697
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