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Creeker, SASS #43022

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Everything posted by Creeker, SASS #43022

  1. Don't we already compete against these shooters? Let's face it - there ain't many, if any, that are coming in to the cowboy game and dethroning shooters like Matt Black. All a PRO category does is allow us to reward and retain these top shooters in cowboy. Garner some national attention to our sport by Team Pietta vs Team Uberti vs Team Ruger rivalry. Allows more shooters opportunities to place at least one spot higher at World's or Nationals. Maybe a blip in gun rag coverage. A mention or two on Shooting USA that doesn't focus entirely on costuming. Take that media coverage - couple that with the grass roots gun shows and flyers - maybe we have a chance to gather that next generation of shooters. Maybe the investment in guns, leather, attire isn't so daunting if someday the shooter might be able to profit from it. And maybe we simply get to expose the game to folks that missed it the first time around. Also nothing says we can't change the game to reflect the PRO influence. Maybe a PRO target distance vs amateur. Same arrays - just differing distances? And if we have to set two arrays of steel... Maybe allow the Amateur shooter the choice of which target array to use with a time multiplier? I.e. Shoot the amateur array; your time multiplier is 100%. Shoot the PRO array and your time multiplier is 80%. Example - the amateur array is: Pistols @5 yards, shotgun @ 7 yards, rifle @10 yards. PRO array is: Pistols @8 yards, shotgun @10 yards, rifle @20 yards. The amateur shooter could engage either array and take the multiplier against their raw time. Penalties remain consistent. So a 20 flat shooter on the Amateur array has a 20 second time. (20 seconds x 100%) A 25 flat shooter on the PRO array has a 20 second time. (25 seconds x 80%) Match Directors could vary the multiplier on every stage depending on target arrays and distances. Shooters could decide which array to engage in every stage. Add an element of strategy to the game as well. This opens the game back up to the "slower, but more accurate" group and gives more options to the shooter. And may make the game more interesting to spectators.
  2. I'm truly not adverse to a PRO category. Separate and standalone. Any SASS legal equipment. AnySASS legal shooting style. Four awards: SASS smokeless PRO - Male & Female SASS blackpowder PRO - Male & Female Only those entering the PRO category could be sponsored or eligible for event cash prizes. The PRO category shooter would not be eligible/ nor counted toward any prize/ awarding other than those in the PRO matrix. Entry into PRO category would be entirely voluntarily - no one would be forced to the category. Shooters may shoot Pro or not on an individual match basis. Targets are repainted between shooters to facilitate scoring. PRO shooters are posse'd together. With volunteer/ or paid from sponsorships fees timer operators and range officers. PRO is an offered match category (all levels) - matches are not required to provide cash prizes. A PRO shooter sponsorship advertising will be limited to a "Western style vest" - all advertising will be embroidered or sewn on patches. Sizes/ placements of individual advertising will be examined/ approved by SASS. Advertising content will be examined for sport and family suitability before approval. Any PRO shooter entering into sponsorship agreement will forward to SASS the signed contract detailing the agreed upon value of said sponsorship. The shooter or sponsor will remit 10% of this value to SASS to administer and add the PRO category. In much the same way that seeing NASCAR on TV encourages folks to visit their local short track or build themselves a race car. Having an amazing PRO division might just be that spark that brings national notice and the very best to our sport. Just think about bringing Jasmine Jessie and Holy Terror back home to cowboy where they belong. This brings money into SASS. Brings more talent into SASS. Reinvigorates our current ranking with firearms manufacturers. Revitalizes the gunsmith wizards building our toys. Takes the top level shooter (that chooses to move up) out of the rankings - which opens the door for many others to buckle and brag. Perhaps increases shooter/ spectator attendence at our majors. The rest of us are not affected in any manner. We continue to shoot our categories under our current rules. Hmmm?
  3. Target sizes, distances, movement, etc. are items that affect CURRENT shooters. They are NOT attracting or dissuading new shooters from playing. Also we need to stop worrying about attracting shooters from other shooting sports - these shooters ALREADY have their thing and while some might cross over occasionally - it is not long term viable. We have MANY times had modern three gunners come play with us - they laugh and have a great time... And at the end of the match - they return to their chosen game. Not better not worse; but the one they already have the equipment and experience in. For our game to grow; we have to entice non shooters, current shooters without a sport and new shooters to attempt our game. Our game is plenty attractive as it is - IF we can get people to see it. Surely, someone has some ideas beyond move Winter Range, outlaw short strokes and get rid of big targets.
  4. I fully agree. I started this thread to solicit ideas. Some I knew would be ones that we have already done and hopefully some that we had yet to try. But the biggest obstacle isn't necessarily refusing to do anything - it is not knowing what/ how to do something. This is why some clubs would benefit from SASS assistance from professionally prepared video and marketing materials. Having a consistent message. Having marketing tools. Having ideas to use the above.
  5. Virtual reality game. A VR game that is not a quest/ journey multi universe game. Simply a shooting game at steel targets that immerses the shooter via VR headset. Useful for demonstrating the game to potential shooters not at the range, (gunshow, fair, etc.) Be able to setup (by operator) to shoot different distances, arrays, sizes, sweeps, and record your times. Or multiplayer mode where you can shoot "heads up shooting style" against your buddy online. Would be a great tool to show others our game and maybe a great practice tool between matches for current shooters.
  6. Fantastic ideas. Brings me to another point. There needs to be a SASS video / professionally filmed and edited that delivers a consistent message for clubs to use at these shows. Instead of every singular club reinventing the wheel. Also if we have this footage; we could approach every TV channel with a local events program (Good Morning city name type shows) and ask to come on (in costume) and discuss SASS using the script guidelines from SASS and informing them we have professional footage for their broadcast use.
  7. I see the top shooter video comment all the time and im not really debating the possible intimidation factor. But if we are trying to bring in new blood and excite them - does reinforcing the stereotype of SASS shooters all being old, fat, gray and slow benefit our cause? Or in other words - marketing to a demographic that will be gone in 10 years instead of one that will be around for 30 seems counterproductive.
  8. A specific shooter said a specific action, "movement", would increase SASS growth and participation. I asked HIM to define what he meant by movement. And hoped to follow that up with "Why?" did he believe that would increase participation. Because one word answers rarely convey all the information needing to be shared. Was he desiring shooting on the move? For all firearms? Greater distances between shooting positions? Perhaps his local club serves a steady diet of stand and deliver? But I certainly appreciate your especially clever pedantic posting of the links. I just discovered this thing called a dictionary that defines singular words as well.
  9. Exposure: I mentioned You tube videos. But what about live streaming? A permanent range (Founders ranch comes to mind) could set up three cameras on each bay to both record and live stream events. Imagine jumping on YouTube and being able to watch your buddies shooting EOT live. Obviously this would lead to other events doing the same and perhaps even a cottage industry of someone traveling around to various annual matches and setting up temporary systems for that event. An additional benefit would be the potential for broadcast of a stage behind the safety area for greater onsite spectator viewing.
  10. I like the idea of a 22 category for adults. Two Ruger Wranglers, Henry lever and various shotgun. This removes a huge price objection from start up cost. Full array of guns under $1000.00 Along with clubs purchasing a set of 22 caliber pistols/ rifle for "rent" or borrow for interested shooters. I, like many others, wouldn't want to borrow guns from another shooter at start up or to try it out... But a club set of loaners? I might. I bet SASS could get a price break on these guns from Ruger and Henry as well. Perhaps some ammo sponsorships for club use 22 and featherlight sg ammo.
  11. Define movement. You mean firing while moving? Because depending on the venue; events have plenty of movement. And keep in mind; this thread is about GROWING our game. That means bringing in shooters from other games or current non shooters. Talking about moving shoots to cater to the other side of the country is simply trading one cowboy shooter for another. Net increase of zero. Changing an internal rule that is not drawing shooters or dissuading shooters may make the game "better" for someone... But those someones are already playing. Net increase of zero. I don't disagree that there are myriads of rules and conventions that should be tweaked; but those changes are simply for those already playing. They won't entice someone who has never played to get off the couch and come out. We need a goal; say 10k NEW shooters in 2020. That's an increase of $650,000.00 If 40% of that would be eaten in added admin and overhead. And we want 20% to go to bottom line revenue for future growth or campaigns. That allows us to budget $260,000 for this proposed growth. Quarter million dollars. Nice number. What do you do with it?
  12. Another point to consider... We have been in continual war/ conflict since September 11. There is a huge pool of current and retiring military members to be tapped. Many veterans are aficionados of history; some may crave firearms competition but may not want to do so with the arms of their service. Or may be physically limited as such that a less intense shooting sport is desired. Outreach and invitation to local veterans groups would be a good idea.
  13. What are they doing that impresses you? Are they selling product or image? And is there a difference between marketing a commodity (coffee) and an activity (SASS) Can we/ SASS replicate, duplicate or emulate it? Something they are doing has struck a chord with you - let us know what that is and how it could apply to our growth.
  14. Anything is better than whining and kvetching that the sky is falling and "somebody" needs to do something. There are a lot of smart people playing this game. And a lot of them has already dedicated years to growing their local clubs, their annual events and by extension, growing SASS. All I'm asking for is a little spit balling. Maybe we hit on something; maybe we don't. If we don't; we are exactly no worse off than before this little exercise. If we do... Then I'll be the first in line to lead the charge. Some say it's a losing battle and no one is going to listen or change. That the status quo is good enough and if the game dies when we do, "So be it". But personally; I think tilting at windmills is far more satisfying than crawling in a hole and pulling dirt down around yourself. Don Quixote Creeker
  15. I think if we limit ourselves in scope of search - we limit what we may find. I'm not sure changes "within" our game that only our current participants will notice will do anything to make us grow or bring in the next generation. That's why I don't believe moving the pistol targets out three yards further or doing the hokey pokey is the path to growth or that the cessation of same is the reason for our decline. I believe our future is digital. Networking, partnering and marketing. Exposure is the cure for most things. We need a strong YouTube presence. This presence needs to be done with a goal and direction to every piece of marketing placed upon it. A singular message about our game and invitation to participate. It's time that the Chronicle goes to video magazine format. This can be augmented and supported by linking to the myriad of independent channels - JediTV comes immediately to mind. We need a presence on other YouTube channels: Hickok 45, Yankee Marshal, etc. purport to be or to have been cowboy action shooters. They have millions of views and 1000's upon 1000's of subscribers - it's time to partner up or request their help. Wolf Bane is still appearing on TV regularly on various shooting shows. So we have a contact. SASS needs to step forward in cooperation with our firearms equipment manufacturers and importers to get cowboy action back on TV in some manner (a show, a segment or just Larry Potterfield talking about adjusting point of aim on a single action). We need a poster presence thru Scully, Ariat, Stetson, etc. in every Western wear and boot store in the US. Why is there not a single mention of cowboy action shooting in my local Boot Barn? They're selling the shirts to play the game - but not mentioning the game? If I purchase certain brands of firearm - I get literature to join the NRA. Am I getting the same pamphlet in every Ruger Vaquero, Henry, Uberti, Pietta, Stoeger, Rossi to join SASS? Isn't our survival in their best interest as well? Comic Con visitors and Video gamers are young and have disposable financials. A booth or exposure might do wonders. A pamphlet about SASS in Red Dead Redemption might gain a few eyes - especially in conjunction with a digital platform allowing immediate exposure online. If the six degrees of separation actually exists then many of us know folks in positions of power, influence or exposure. These folks may not have anything that directly connects to our game - but perhaps there are tangential connections that we might use to raise exposure? A spark in a rainstorm means little; but that same spark in a forest of dried timber can become a raging fire. We only need to see and pounce on the chance.
  16. Ok, boys and girls... Unlike the past where members of the Wild Bunch bragged about their disinterest in the SASS Wire - we KNOW that Misty and others read the wire and from time to time respond. So here's your opportunity. If you think that SASS is on a slow decline toward obscurity... And.... You are appointed King or Queen of SASS; what steps would you take to turn cowboy action shooting around? I have zero interest in fatalism or "impossible". If your contribution amounts to, "Every one in SASS will be dead soon and the game with it" - please keep your comments to your self. But if you have an idea, a plan, an inkling - that might help our game survive and even grow beyond our current climate. Please share. Also please keep in mind that the finances of SASS are not infinite. Consider the financial, social and political costs of your idea. Lastly; please be civil. For all our differences of opinion; we all harbor a great protectiveness and love for this game - comment and adapt and alter others ideas if need be - but do it respectfully and with an eye on the prize. That our children and grandchildren and theirs as well; be given the chance to play our game - celebrate our heritage (SASS and the Old West of these United States) and to so freely.
  17. Bull, hate to be the bearer of bad news... But as a concealed weapons instructor; your information, while commonly believed, is incorrect. In the state of Nevada; if the premises is posted with a sign that explicitly states "No Firearms Allowed", or even implies the same thru symbols (pistol with the line thru it) and you pass by in possession of a firearm; you are in violation of state law. This is a result of Nevada state public buildings/ grounds and private property open to public invitation (retail, restaurant, shop, bank, church, etc.) being held to the same standard. While I agree, that in most cases, the result of this occurance will be simply being asked to leave - the potential is present for police response, arrest and charges. If the premises is NOT posted (and not an understood prohibited carry location; i.e. private or public schools or public buildings upon public airports {excepting some very specific exemptions}) - you may legally carry (open or concealed). But then the person in charge of the property, still retains the right to request the person carrying to leave the property under trespass laws - but as long as the person being requested to do so leaves peaceably - under that consideration, there is no violation of any firearms law. And sadly with our current governor - the laws governing firearms use, ownership and carry in Nevada are going to become even more confusing with his allowance for local municipalities to enact their own laws (Nevada law has been that firearms regulations were enacted at state level - to avoid patchwork legislation and creating inadvertent violations with in-state travel).
  18. My alias comes from growing up in Battle Creek, Michigan. When I had the opportunity... I dropped my ice scraper in the trash at Detroit Metro airport and said, "Never again". No matter how hot it may get in the desert Southwest; I never have to shovel it.
  19. As a Las Vegas resident and poker player; I find myself walking past the newly posted firearms notice plaques in many hotel/ casinos. Since the Mandalay Bay shooting; a number of strip hotels have adopted various inconsistent rules regarding firearms on property. Some (the Venetian and MGM properties immediately come to mind) have adopted a knock and enter policy stating they may enter your room and inspect (for firearms) every 24 hours. They (and others) have also stated they will enter your room at least once every 24 hours regardless of posted do not disturb signage. As others have said; checking hotel websites for firearm policy and then following up by phone is the best way to determine actual information.
  20. Have the match director announce at the shooters meeting that you need a couple spaces on a gun cart. When someone offers the space, (if you're able) offer to push their cart for the day. Easy trade off and most likely someone is willing.
  21. At our monthly shoot this weekend; I was approached by a shooter that doesn't play with us much anymore. I lit up when I saw this shooter; because this man was an inspiration to me when I began shooting. This man is Irish Red; with his shamrock printed shirts and green felt hats - in the early 2000's, Irish was the Duelist to beat in Southern Nevada. I watched Irish Red and emulated him; taking his advice and guidance on shooting Duelist. I said often back then, "I want to be just like Irish when I grow up". With his help; I became a fairly proficient Duelist and won a buckle or two. I also watch Irish Red interact with other shooters and admired his willingness to mentor, advise and give of himself. I have tried to live up to the example he set as a leader and mentor; I have often fallen short of his level - but I always knew what I should be striving for. As we shook hands and caught up; Irish motioned me to follow him to his car. "I hoped you would be here this weekend" he stated as he opened his door. Reaching in, he removed a hatbox and handed it to me. Inside was one of Irishs custom felt hats; this one a green derby with red feather custom made for Irish Red with his name and SASS number inside. "What is this?", I ask. Not entirely sure why I'm being handed this box. "It's yours", Irish replied. "I want you to have it". This gift means more to me than I can express. It is a great honor and I will wear it with pride. Years ago; while at the top of his game - he thought enough of me to advise and direct and 20 years later as his participation wanes - he continues to give of himself. Thank you, Irish. I want to be just like you when I grow up.
  22. I own Emmalees Guns & Emporium in Pahrump, NV. Well, if you want to be technical about it - Emmalee is Desert Scorpion and she will tell you she owns it. We charge $20 per FFL transfer plus NV required background check fee if the receiver does not have a Nevada Concealed Carry Permit.
  23. There's a reason. It's poor stage writing; somehow attempting to apply a band-aid to itself by masquerading as creative. 10-10-4 is boring... Only if the stage writer is boring. 9-9-5 is exciting and creative... Only if the stage writer is exciting and creative. Matches are a stew... Consisting of target placement, target sizing, sequences, movements, props, lines, transitions and gun orders. If all the above are well done - then there is zero requirement to adjust round counts to be creative. If the above are done poorly; all the changes in round counts will accomplish nothing. I submit any stage writer presenting round counts variation as being creative stage writing needs to actually experience some creative stage writing.
  24. If it is a fact that I am always right (and it is). Then by not agreeing with me - you would be deliberately choosing to be wrong. And that's just plain silly. Not unexpected from Shooting Bull; but silly all the same.
  25. There is no occasionally - there is no circumstance/ sequence/ target size, distance or array where the midpack shooter becomes a top shooter. You claim that you're getting all this negative feedback from shooters when the match is perceived to be too easy. I don't believe it You declare the match director should be building matches to separate the rank and file from the top shooters. I don't agree with it. I have been a successful match director within our game for nearly 20 years. I have put on 100's of monthly matches and dozens of annuals. I'm pretty sure in that span of years and matches - I had full comprehension of what my shooters wanted and the duties of a match director. Before you begin telling us what we are doing wrong - Perhaps you might want to put a little more effort into comprehending exactly what our game is.
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