Null N. Void

I was the TO. Hammer was down, just no bang when he cycled. I was looking for rounds flying out, but there was nothing. I was thinking, " Did he forget to load the rifle?" It was great to watch the smoothness in that he knew where the rounds were, pulled them out, loaded, shot, gathered the remaining rounds, moved, loaded the pistols and fired away. I did check to see if the person taking the video was still running the camera, and she was. The general comment in the background after the stage was " Talking instead of loading" with a lot of smiles and head nods. It was a pleasure to shoot with him and I look forward to doing it again!

He forgot to mention the first stage in which he shot underpowered shotgun rounds. You could see the wad arcing to the target. They did go down, slowly!

A link would be good.

Where's the video?

38 special - 3.3 grains with 105 bullet. 357 - 3.3 grains with 125 bullet Shotgun with 1 ounce loads - 13.5 to 13.8.

We have 4 new shooters in my club, maybe 6, but all are struggling with the cost of the sport and integrating it into their work, school, family and other interests. If they can manage to get out once a month, it's great. I think it's (pick your negative expletive) to add another requirement when we are trying to recruit new shooters. An online course for those would like it would be great to get those who would like to know the rules better. I don't think is should replace the present RO1 course.

" Assessing misses is purely in the purview of the spotters." Page 24 of Shooters Handbook

When I'm running the timer and I clearly saw 10 leave the pistols but are close, but distinct, I'll get with the spotters and tell them what I saw. I cannot overrule them but I can provide info like we do with an edge hit. If the double cocker is shooting shots close to simultaneous, I'll let he/she know it's too close and the spotters may be calling misses or I may have to call a P. Two close is if I don't see one gun recoil before the other. I can't always get into position to see that, but I try.

I didn't see the original video. Here's the present rule for Gunfighters from page 7 of the Shooters Handbook. The revolvers must never be held in an unsafe manner (e.g., one revolver behind the other). Keeping with the 170 rule, which is how I view it, once a hand is in the 170 degree of the muzzle of either revolver, you have unsafe gun handling. It doesn't matter what the lane is. You should keep the revolvers roughly side by side. Once the muzzle gets behind the butt of the other revolver, you, as defined by the SHB are unsafe. Unsafe handling penalties apply. Some pumping is OK. Just get the pumped gun forward and then cock it. I understand the help it gives as far a rhythm goes. I shot gunfighter for a couple of years. The best way to keep yourself safe, IMO, is to keep the revolvers straight out and do not allow the recoil to come straight back. The natural recoil of cowboy guns is to roll the gun back over the top of your hand for a couple of inches. The muzzle never gets more that 20 degrees from horizontal for the loads we shoot. You keep the gun forward and after the shot and recoil, roll it back down. There is some back movement, but not enough to pull the muzzle back more than a couple of inches and that doesn't get hands in front of muzzles. I've seen shooters pulling the gun straight back over a foot and are cocking it way behind the other revolver. That is not safe. Why anyone would want a cocked gun behind their hand is beyond me. If I didn't see it clearly, I'll warn them. If I see it clearly, particularly after a warning, I will assess the appropriate penalty. NNV

I think this expresses why good active members get frustrated. A reasonable proposal was made, discussed, voted upon and agreed to by the ROC. Not everybody was happy, but the process was followed. Then it disappeared into the Twilight Zone. We managed to get the dropped round rule changed. That was another one that was frequently called in the past. Since it's been changed, it's been a relief when running the timer to not have to call a penalty when a shooter puts his/her hand on a dropped cartridge or shell. I have not seen anything close to a safety issue when people pick up a dropped shell. I think the change to the cocked long gun rule would be the same. No impact on safety and less frustration in running the timer. NNV

Thank you Jackaroo! That's what I remember from last year. If there isn't going to be a TG Summit, then I think the ROC approval should enough to change the rule. All the above discussions were had last year on this forum, and at the end, the ROC accepted it as you stated. I think the only issue was should it be a MS or Procedural vs. a no call.

I've had to call the penalty many times and have never found a round in the chamber. It's already too late to worry about tripping on the way. The penalty is almost always called at the line when the rifle is put down. I think lowering the hammer by pulling the trigger is a better way to handle it. I prefer a no call, but could see a procedural or a MS. I think the SDQ is too severe.

There was a proposal last year to change the penalty to a no call if the trigger is pulled on the rifle (pointed in a safe direction) and the hammer falls, and nothing happens. If it goes bang, it's still a SDQ. My understanding was this was to be voted on at the TG meeting at winter range. Did this get discussed and either approved voted down? NNV

Three Cut in North Carolina.

The Winchesters are flatter across. If the firing pins are a bit off center and the spring tension is lighter, they may not go off with Federals because of the depth in the pocket they have and a bit of an arch in them. My main match SG is a Chichester '97 that throws shells out beautifully but has a slightly off center firing pin strike. It will ignite Winchesters all day, but when I used some Federals, I had about a 20% FTF rate with nothing else changed on the SG. When I went back to Winchester, the problem went away.