Roger Rapid

T.G. Rye... The first version of the Pedersoli Silver Spur is in .45LC. I have heard they are hoping to get a .357 version out by end of the year. RR

SnakeM... The .previous version of Pedersoli's Lightning - which they now refer to as the "Classic" Lightning - was available in .44-40, .45LC and 357. Generally speaking, none of the clones ran .38s as well as they did .357. The new version of Pedersoli's Lightning is called a "Silver Spur" and It is out there and many of the shops have them. At the moment they are only available in .45LC. The .357 version is supposed to come later in the year. (There's another interesting post on the Silver Spur entitled "Pedersoli Lightnings are shipping again!!!" - it has lots of good info. Check it out.) RR

They will hold 10+ 45LC rounds... Several dealers how have them. Tombstone Tactical in Phoenix has them for $1,747. RR

H.K. Uriah Yes, that's the story I knew about Colt and Winchester and I've heard it from a few different sources so I think it's generally accurate. Sasparilla Groz: Unlike the other Lightning clones, your Uberti Lightning has an ejector built into the bolt. It's small spring-loaded plunger that forces the shell to kick up as soon as it clears the chamber's mouth. Two things are important for good extraction and ejection: 1) the extractor must have good down pressure as it grips the shell so that it reliably pulls the shell from the chamber without releasing it early. 2) The ejector spring must be as heavy and long as the one shown here or the plunger will not have the force needed to kick out the shells. Here's what your extractor parts parts should look like (pivot pin, extractor, extractor spring bolt: Here's what your ejector parts should look like (bolt, securing pin, spring, and ejector: Note how heavy the ejector spring is. RR

H.K. … I had not heard that Colt ceased production because of problems with the Lightning rifle functioning properly. Interesting. It was my understanding they got into a legal hassle with Winchester over making repeating rifles. And yes, I agree on removing the restrictor - what Pedersoli calls a “magazine limiting device." Here’s what the one looks like that Pedersoli used to limit the magazine to 10 rounds in their 26˝ Lightning. This restrictor weighs 475 grains compared to a loaded .45LC cartridge with an 185g bullet that weighs 310g. It’s entirely too much “mass” and it retards the movement of the cartridges in the chamber when working the rifle fast. Removing the long aluminum bar also helps to reduce the amount of force needed to load cartridges through the loading gate and into the tube. Catamount Kid…. Cartridges under the lifter are caused by a cartridge going over the cartridge stop lever and under the lifter when the lifter is up. The stop lever is the part that releases each cartridge as the action begins to open and then prevents the next cartridge from entering the lifter as the bolt continues to open. The problem is especially found with .357/.38 cartridges because the diameter is smaller than .45LC and the margin of error is greater. It’s a simple fix on the Pedersoli Lightnings because it uses an independent cartridge stop lever whose height - distance the lever comes up - can be easily adjusted. On the original Colt Lightnings, and on the Taurus, USFA, AWA, and Uberti Lightning clones, the stop lever is part of the rocker arm, and the height is not easily adjusted. However, check the reducer in the magazine - the small tube at the end of the magazine that centers each cartridge in the .357/.38 versions - to see how much slop you have around the cartridge in that reducer. You can make a new reducer with a smaller bore to make the cartridge fit more snugly in the reducer, or better yet, with the bore in the reducer being off center and positioned so that the cartridges sit lower in the tube. As a result, it would move the center of the bullet down slightly which gives you a tiny bit more bite of the cartridge stop lever to keep the cartridge in the tube. RR

H.K... You're always thinking "outside the box!" So, I think there was a bunch of stuff going on. First, we didn't have a John Wayne-like movie star to bring the Lightning to the forefront. Then, the Lightning didn't have a big fancy lever-loop to spin the gun around and cock it fancy-like. Unfortunately, there wasn't a movie called "Lightning '84" for James Stewart to show it off like he did in "Winchester '73." (Although I do remember one movie were a cowboy was carrying a Lightning but I don't remember the movie's name.) And I don't think there were many prop or armorer (the the person who manages all the guns on a movie set) guys who had Lightnings in their truck. Then the small-ish frame of the Lightning made it look more like a squirrel gun than a macho COWBOY GUN. And that takes us from the American cowboy film star to the early Cowboy Action Shooter who had the great misfortune of buying a Taurus and forever owing the reputation of "naah, that thing won't work!" I remember how many snide remarks I got when I carried my first (Pedersoli) Lightning up to a stage around 2014 or so; There was so much chatter I thought I had my fly open!!! Wow! "That won't run!" - "They don't work" - "A Lightning??" - "Thinking of buying a real rifle?" ... and so on and so forth. Great way to settle down to shoot a carefree stage!!!! Around the same time, I saw a new Taurus stainless steel Lightning at a gunshop in Glendale, CA and I remember commenting to the shop guy that I planned to use it for cowboy shooting. He said "Well, you can use it for cowboy shooting, but I wouldn't recommend it!" Nice! (Yes, he lost a sale - I didn't buy it.) So, maybe a Lightning is, as you said, an "also ran" - like a Marlin. Well, almost like a Marlin. But I know one thing for darn sure: You and I love 'em!!!!! RR

USMC69... Not sure about the article in Guns Magazine. There are numerous bullet shapes according to bullet manufacturer and they have not changed so drastically over the years. Typically larger bullets sit lower in the shell - below the cannalure (groove in bullet) which means they all protrude about the same above the cannalure (unless they are very short like 160g, etc.). 1. If you are having to do two pumps to get the bullet to feed into the chamber then it sounds like the lifter is not staying up. (TO TEST: Pull the bolt back, then move it forward 1/2˝. Push the lifter down with a pencil or small stick. It should only go down with a bit of resistance. If it sort of falls down, it is wrong.) 2. If you are having trouble needing two pumps to get the cartridge to come into the action and onto the lifter then it sounds like the cartridge stop lever is not dropping far enough to allow the cartridge to enter the action. (See photo below) (TO TEST: looking down into the action, the green arrow points to the follower that pushes the cartridges into the magazine - that's where you'd see a cartridge. The red arrow points to the cartridge stop lever that drops to allow each cartridge to feed. The blue arrow points to the lifter. Disregard the yellow arrow. About how far is the cartridge stop lever - red arrow - coming up on to the follower - green arrow?) •• Did you buy the gun new? •• I can advise you of who to send it to if you want to get it fixed. Roger

Hi USMC69... If your Pedersoli Lightning has not been worked on by someone who modified the lifter, it should feed .45LC's like a well-oiled machine. AND, it should feed .45 Schofield and .45 Cowboy Special just as easily. 200RNFP are fine, but you don't need anything that heavy for Cowboy Shooting. For a heavy load, 180RNFP or 185RNFP work just fine. The designed OAL for .45LC is 1.60˝, but because the Lightning has a cartridge stop lever, that allows only one cartridge to enter the lifter at a time, the OAL is really not important. Unlike a '73, the Lightning is not cartridge-length-dependent. The video shown in this post, just four comments previous to this one, shows a 26˝ octagonal barrel Pedersoli Lightning firing .45LC cartridges with 185gRNFP Bear Creek Bullets. And, I'm now shooting .45Cowboy Specials (i.e., .45 shorts) through that rifle with no modifications to the rifle. Can you describe the feeding problems you were having? RR

I was thinking about this post and I wanted to double back on the idea of slam firing a Lightning rifle. And, taking a philosophical approach, I’m wondering how much of it is the cool factor of slam firing vs just trying to go faster. I tend to think that for any of us, how fast we can go with any particular gun comes down to familiarity and practice. I don’t own a slam-fire Lightning but I’ve tried a few. I cannot shoot one as fast as I can a non-slam-fire Lightning but that’s because of ME and not because of the rifle. I am used to pushing the foregrip forward, get sight acquisition while I release the trigger, and pulling the trigger. That’s my cadence and I can’t break it. At least I can’t break it without a lot of practice. Here’s a video of me shooting a .45LC Pedersoli 26˝ octagonal-barrel Lightning at Bordertown last year, or maybe it was two years ago. I’m an El Rey so that’s as fast as I can move and do things. I’m not sure just how much better my time I would have been if I slam fired. AND, if I slam-fired, I wonder if I could have done it with no MISSs. Now that I’m running .45CS, I think I’m a bit quicker but only because of the lower recoil which helps me stay on target. Some day I’ll time myself comparing .45LC to shooting .45CS (CLEAN-ly). I’ve been PMing with a friend about this post who mentioned that he has some slam-fire Lightnings, but shoots them traditionally rather than slam firing. Lastly, for me as an old-fart El Rey, I don’t think I can, or even need to go much faster. RR

Outlaw Gambler... You are correct. While many CAS shooters want a Lightning that will slam fire, for liability reasons Stefano Pedersoli intentionally does not want his version of the Lightning to slam fire. In fact, they went through great lengths to re-design the internal workings of their Lightning with an intricate sear mechanism that only allows the hammer to be dropped after the trigger is first released. The internal workings of a Pedersoli Lightning are very different from the Uberti Goldrush, Taurus Thunderbolt, AWA, USFA, and original Colt Lightnings. IMHO you can run the riflle accurately just as fast by cycling the trigger. RR

H.K. Uriah… Interesting question you pose! I know your question is hypothetical, but I think Cholla’s point about market size must be considered. Having said that, I’m like you - I LOVE my Lightnings, and have one of almost every flavor including a very nice original Colt in 38-40. Of the clones, I have always felt that the Pedersoli Lightning is the most meticulously made and best crafted of all. The Uberti is a close second but they filled it with a bunch of saftey's - as they did with their Cattleman pistols. More to your question… when I was 15 (1955) I bought a Winchester Model 62A in 22 short from a friend. I still have it, catch a few squirrels with it now and then, and consider it to be part of me - probably because I’ve had it 70+ years and sill love shooting it! I have a scabbard on my tractor and when I mow our field, my 62A is in that scabbard to help me eliminate some of California’s pesky ground squirrels. Because of that rifle, shooting a pump is very second nature to me and when I got into CAS 15-16 years ago I was excited to learn that a pump action rifle was legal. I love the design of the Lightning; shape of the butt plate and fore grip, trigger, and everything about it. And for me, the Pedersoli just feels like the original Colt. To your question, if there was another Lightning on the market I might want to own one because I share your passion for Lightnings. But when I go to a match, I’m rather certain that only my Pedersoli would be in my gun cart. A word on specific models: My first Pedersoli Lightning was a carbine in .45LC. For about the first year or so it became obvious that the hand holding the rifle’s fore grip and steadying it was the same hand that was working the action, and that plus shooting .45LC recoil led to MISS’s. So I got a Pedersoli with an octagonal barrel in 26 ˝ - still in .45LC. Steadiness improved greatly and I continued to use it until about two years ago when I started shooting .45 Cowboy Specials and had ZERO recoil! So I tried to go back to my Carbine shooting the .45CS’s and I’m a very happy camper. Now my rifle MISS’s are virtually zero, and I think I’m handling the carbine faster and easier than my 26˝ octagonal. Plus, I’m an El Rey and the lighter rifle and lighter loads better suit my ability to pick up the rifle and shoot it. RR

That lever also allows the shooter to cycle the rifle fully forward and back without dropping the hammer - for quick and easy unloading of the mag, if needed. RR

Injun Ryder: PM sent to you... Roger

Injun Ryder... Just want to be clear ... So, the round will extract from the chamber but not eject once the bolt is moved back (opened)? Is the shell staying hooked into the extractor on the bolt when you draw the bolt back or does it just come partly out of the chamber and then separate from the bolt's extractor? Can you try putting an empty case in the chamber and slamming the bolt closed with moderate, but not extreme force? (Objective is to get the extractor to hook onto the rim of the cartridge.) RR

H.K. Uriah… Pedersoli needed a starting place so it picked .45LC. In the previous version of the Lightning - which Pedersoli now calls the “Classic Lightning” - the .45LC generally ran a little better than the .357. The larger DIAMETER of the .45LC was a bit more forgiving because of how snugly the cartridge gets 3-point-trapped between the lifter and the two "cartridge guides/ejection plates.” How precisely the cartridge gets trapped makes a big difference in feeding reliability. So it was ideal for them to begin at a more reliable starting point; thus the larger cartridge (diameter wise). Not sure why the .45 Schofields are not running in that rifle - catches me by surprise, too. I shoot .45 Cowboy Specials in my Classic Lightnings with ZERO problems and no modifications to the rifles. As you know, because the Lightning has a “cartridge stop lever” that allows only one round to enter the lifter at a time, it really doesn’t care about OAL. I’ve mixed rounds from .45LC (with 180g / 1.60˝ OAL) down to Cowboy Specials in the same magazine and the rifle just feeds, shoots, and ejects them regardless of length. (I actually keep .45LC’s with 180gr bullets in my cart in case I encounter a plate rack with questionable knock-down-ability. Then I load the tube accordingly mixing five .45LCs with five Cowboy Specials.) The only thing in the Silver Spurs that is “more like the large frame Colts” is the fact that, as you mentioned, the Silver Spur has the swinging cartridge guides. But the size format of the rifle has not really changed from the classic version. And doing so has the cartridge being trapped better between the lifter and the floating guides when the bolt is all the way back. You may also have seen that the two mainframe screws (one on each side) that secure the upper assembly to the trigger frame are set back further. There are some other minor differences inside the Silver Spur - different lifter shape/angle, mechanism for the floating guides, etc., but the big difference is the replacement of the stationary cartridge guide/ejection plates with the swinging ones. Agree with you on the necked cartridges like .44-40 (and .38-40). One thing nice about shooting the Cowboy Specials is that the load - which is a little more than half of what I was using in my .45LCs - generates virtually no blow-back, at least not that I’m am totally aware of. There’s probably some, but I was just got used to the blow-back of the .45LCs and I don’t miss it! Lastly, you mentioned .44Magnum. I think you know that Pedersoli also just announced a “Jackal" hunting rifle. This is basically the same action as the Silver Spur with the action bedded in a nicely-sculptured hunting foregrip and main stock. The big difference is that it is chambered in .44Magnum. I’m afraid these old El Rey shoulders wouldn’t like it very much… Be good... RR