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Load in order of signup, load when your ready.


Warden Callaway

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Howdy

 

In these parts, we used to shoot in order. However for many years now it has been shoot when ready. I can't remember the last time I attended a match where there was a shooting order.

 

No problem. Sometimes I want to watch the stage for a while. Sometimes I don't. Sometimes there is a big crowd at the loading table so I just spot for a while. I was the last shooter a couple of times today.

 

Much prefer no order.

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I don't and won't shoot in order. Luckily every club I patronize feels the same way.

 

 

I am a huge proponent of shoot when ready.

It allows shooters to address their preparedness at their own pace.

It allows newer shooters time to see the stage shot and ensure they fully understand the stage prior to shooting.

It allows shooters to strategize if they so desire.

But the most important component of shoot when ready has little to do with shooting. Shoot when ready allows the posse to cycle thru their willing/ capable timer operators thru the stage on their schedule to ensure there is someone available to run the timer without being rushed to shoot before or after.

As someone who is often the posse marshal and often a timer operator; this flexibility is invaluable.

 

I agree 100%

As match directors you guys understand the KISS thing.

Let folks make their own decisions.

Besides the good points Creeker listed I would add, shooting in order can make it hard for the Cap & Ball Frontiersmen trying to keep their equipment ready.

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Shoot when ready.

============

Eliminates some issues that come up.

1.

New shooters and shooters who travel to other clubs are not known and score keepers do know them yet.

Confusion.

2. New shooters and shooters who travel to other clubs do not know the regular shooters and don't know who to shoot after.

Confusion.

3. Some shooters have a preference of when they like to shoot.

First or in the first three. Last of nearly last. Behind a friend so they can talk and see how their friend shoots the stage. Setting where these people shoot.

Confusion.

4. Shoot in order and the first shooter makes a bathroom stop. Order is thrown off.

Confusion.

5. Shooter has a mishap on the firing line and is given a re shoot. Goes to unloading table and unloads and they now move to the back of the shooting list re shoots when ready again.

Confusion.

 

If the loading table is empty the then the stage should be done.

If shooters are slow at getting to the loading table then calling out to move to the next stage will clue in those who still need to shoot .

The person timing can see the loading table is not full when calling up the next shooter and can let everyone know "If you haven't shot, you need to get to the loading table."

The posse leader and or the timing officer should keep the posse moving.

 

In the area I shoot, the problem is that everyone wants to be at the loading table and there aren't enough people to runt he stage.

Two on the loading table and one on deck. No need to have more than that in line at any one time.

 

There are good timers that keep a posse moving without being bossy.

And there are those timers who just want to run the timer and the posse slows down.

 

As a shooter, I/you can learn which posses run well and make an attempts to get on those posses.

 

I found out early on that the posses that seem to run slow have shooters who seem to like that pace.

I didn't see any reason to complain or try to push them along.

Just do my best to get on posses that run at the pace I like.

 

If I wanted to spend the day complaining, I would spend more time at government offices. <GGG>

 

Now with all this said, I use to travel to several different clubs during the year.

How ever the individual clubs ran their matches, that's what I did.

Just glad to shoot with new people.

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Who resolves the conflict when two or more people want to shoot first? Or last? Or lucky #7? Or?

Flip a coin, alternate, it usually works itself out. Shot a couple of matches where I was last every stage and don't really care to shoot last when I'm watching the reload table. I shoot a couple of matches a month where there are 20+ shooters per posse and they function really well with the load when ready concept.

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I agree 100%

As match directors you guys understand the KISS thing.

Let folks make their own decisions.

Besides the good points Creeker listed I would add, shooting in order can make it hard for the Cap & Ball Frontiersmen trying to keep their equipment ready.

 

Sums it up nicely.

 

I'm another who wouldn't return to a match that shot in order. Never seen an issue that couldn't be worked through with "when ready". Have seen no problems scoring "when ready".

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Have done it both ways, if given a choice I'll shoot when ready but in my opinion it really isn't something to make a federal case over. When I travel I've run in to more than just shooting order that may be different than I'm used to. When in Rome, do as the Romans do. I don't go in and demand they change to suit what I'm used to.

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I'll shoot either but prefer when ready - the local norm. Usually half the posse heads for the loading table so I find a job needing done until the line shortens. When shooting cap 'n ball in a shooting in order match I ask to be placed near the end of the shooting order due to ensure ample time to prep my revolvers. Posse marshals understand this and have never objected.

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Pick a job to do and a replacement. When they shoot they come back and relieve you, then you go load up. Works well.

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I've shot both in order and "as ready". I prefer in order. The "as ready" matches seemed to be a bit of a cluster . Lots of folks standing in line, not so many working. I'd wait until the line got low, then as I tried to "get ready" 2-3 more folks jumped up in line. Seems like I was always towards the end when someone starts shouting for any body else needing to shoot and I'd start shouting for someone to take my xxx posse duties. Maybe I'm not pushy enough to force my way in line and I feel a bit guilty standing around doing nothing but waiting for a chance to shoot. I'll shoot either. I'm not going to win either. I am a bit surprised by the militant "I won't shoot there if they do x" I've heard here, tho. Really? OK. I'm not going to tell anyone their fun is wrong.

 

FWIW most of the matches around here seem to be some form of "in order". And they all have been very flexible to circumstances.

 

BTW, I have been shooting Frontiersman for the last couple years. I don't mind shooting first, last or in between. I don't find it difficult to adjust. But, it is easier if I have some idea when I can expect to shoot.

 

It's just a game. When it stops being fun I'll find something else to do.

 

Just my .02c

 

Angus

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Who resolves the conflict when two or more people want to shoot first? Or last? Or lucky #7? Or?

It really is not an issue. I like to shoot first but at any rate shoot early in stage so I do not see wrong ways to shoot the stage on my mind. It has never ever been an issue. Giving the choice I usually choose to not shoot at the one match that shoots in order in our area. Even those clubs that do shoot in order they have always moved down the list a couple of shooters at the start of each stage. As far as an issue for the score keeper, the RO just asks each shooter to confirm his name when coming to the firing line.

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Around here we shoot when ready. Having said that I love shooting too much to pass up a match just because it's a shoot in order match. Same goes for total time vs rank points. I prefer total time, but rank points won't stop me from shooting a match.

 

BTW, after five years and several hundred 'shoot when ready' matches I've never seen the 'chaos' some are reporting.

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I've shot both in order and "as ready". I prefer in order. The "as ready" matches seemed to be a bit of a cluster . Lots of folks standing in line, not so many working. I'd wait until the line got low, then as I tried to "get ready" 2-3 more folks jumped up in line. Seems like I was always towards the end when someone starts shouting for any body else needing to shoot and I'd start shouting for someone to take my xxx posse duties. Maybe I'm not pushy enough to force my way in line and I feel a bit guilty standing around doing nothing but waiting for a chance to shoot. I'll shoot either. I'm not going to win either. I am a bit surprised by the militant "I won't shoot there if they do x" I've heard here, tho. Really? OK. I'm not going to tell anyone their fun is wrong.

 

FWIW most of the matches around here seem to be some form of "in order". And they all have been very flexible to circumstances.

 

BTW, I have been shooting Frontiersman for the last couple years. I don't mind shooting first, last or in between. I don't find it difficult to adjust. But, it is easier if I have some idea when I can expect to shoot.

 

It's just a game. When it stops being fun I'll find something else to do.

 

Just my .02c

 

Angus

Did your posse shoot when ready or in order yesterday?

 

BTW, your numbers looked good. Just for one P you were clean. I bet it was stage one rifle. That was a tough one.

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I can not stand shooting in order.

Have only had to do it a few times. And that was clubs north of here.

 

One was at a club that you shoot at Warden.

When there was a group of us let them know we did not like it at there big match.

They let our posse go to shoot when ready.

 

We are not sheep. Most posses will fall into a routine pretty quickly. Those that like to

shoot early do. Those that don't won't have to.

As to if you have one or more that like to go first. That's easy. First one to the table and loaded.

 

Those that never shoot when ready get so use to being told what to do and when.

That I guess getting to make up your own mind and not being told what to do blows there mind.

Even at the EOT's and WR that I have been to

It was shoot when ready.

We seem to get along just fine.

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Either way is fine. Though, I prefer shoot when ready (I generally shoot first or among the first). That said, I HATE, HATE, HATE the drop down one each stage thing. Stupidest idea anyone ever came up with. Messes up the rhythm of the shoot.

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I won't take part in a shooting order. i've also not witnessed chaos on shoot when ready posses. If there are enough workers to get started, then the rest of the posse can get in line. The replacement workers are those shooters that went early. It's pretty simple.

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I won't take part in a shooting order. i've also not witnessed chaos on shoot when ready posses. If there are enough workers to get started, then the rest of the posse can get in line. The replacement workers are those shooters that went early. It's pretty simple.

 

 

+1

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Well my take on it is that it is not being told what or when to do when shooting in order, but knowing when to work and when to get ready. I don't like being rushed to get ready because other posse members shoot the stage and then the bull and let others work until they have to shoot. It also is partly because shoot when ready has not been used up here that long and we are not used to it yet.

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I don't and won't shoot in order. Luckily every club I patronize feels thebsame way.

Agreed. Had to do it once. Won't again. Easy stage, let me go early so I can help the posse. Some one (like my wife) doesn't understand it and wants my help, let me have time to help them, then get my head right for myself.

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Around here in central Iowa it used to be shoot in order, then drop down one each stage...But lately we have been doing more shoot when ready. I don't really care. When your shooting in order it can be a pain to keep track of when your coming up and getting relieved in time. The only thing I don't like about shooting when ready is ya get long lines waiting at the loading table.

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Nate, Creeker and others have expressed the same feelings that I have. When I am posse marshal I will always take a vote and go with the majority. If, as in Saturday at the match in question, we have a lot of new shooters and people sharing guns it makes life a lot easier. Also if the TO duties are left to 2 shooters it makes it easier on them. I am willing to run 10 or 11 shooters out of 18, but not 16. I thought the day went well until the 6th stage and some people ran out of gas. But all in all I had a good time and was able to keep up with my normal match chores such as putting brass in water and cleaning the bore on my shotgun. But I will go with the vote next time. Just my .02 cents.

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When I first started in the sport 'in order' was easier. Having done this for several years now I prefer when ready. I do a lot of TO'ing these days and find that when we shoot 'when ready' it is best to have the cards in Alphabetical order making it easier to find the shooter as they come to the table. It is not uncommon to find new shooters to the club want to do scoring as it gives them an opportunity to learn the shooters and putting the cars in alpha order makes it easier for them. I here to have fun so posse preference is fine with me. When 'in order' we move to top two to the bottom and move forward.

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Like a couple guys have already mentioned. I have never seen Confusion of any kind at a when ready match.

IMO, having fun safely is the number one goal, If even one person feels uncomfortable because they are not ready but are being forced to shoot. They are not giving that shooter the best chance to have the most fun THEY can have.

Many times I have seen shooters that are unsure of how they should shoot the stage be forced into going in order. Then be unhappy by the outcome.

Shoot when Ready!!!!! The posse leader can very easily keep the line from getting to long at the loading table by warning of it at the start.

We are in the entertainment business. Shoot when ready gives the most people the best chance to have the maximum fun available.

 

Whiskey

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Nate, Creeker and others have expressed the same feelings that I have. When I am posse marshal I will always take a vote and go with the majority. If, as in Saturday at the match in question, we have a lot of new shooters and people sharing guns it makes life a lot easier. Also if the TO duties are left to 2 shooters it makes it easier on them. I am willing to run 10 or 11 shooters out of 18, but not 16. I thought the day went well until the 6th stage and some people ran out of gas. But all in all I had a good time and was able to keep up with my normal match chores such as putting brass in water and cleaning the bore on my shotgun. But I will go with the vote next time. Just my .02 cents.

I was just getting started on stage 6. It was my best stage.

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I hate shooting a specified order IMO it is actually harder on a posse because if your working when it's your turn to load you have to find a free person to take over then get your stuff ready then load by then you have forgotten wat the scenario was. Just shoot when your ready I'll usually find one or two other people we swap off the posse duty not as often as the to it seems but it must be one will shoot early on they will rotate thru then put the heir gear away then take over the position then the one released will get their stuff ready and load and shoot put their gear away and on about half the stages take the position back over.

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If you try and assign me to a specific shooting order, I can guarantee you I will not be ready.

 

If it were a major match, myself and Miss Glitter would not return.

 

If it was at someone's monthly match, we would be on the road before you reached the second stage.

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When I first started I liked a designated order. Just one less thing to worry about. Now I prefer when ready. I'll use stay behind and shoot toward the end while score keeping. Then someone can replace me after they've finished and I'll shoot. Now if I'm shooting cap guns, I want to go near first so that I will be able to man the ult while reloading. I'm still not that fast at it so it takes me 3-4 shooters to finish.

Yup!!

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On those occasions where I've been posse marshal, I've taken a poll. When the vote comes up "when ready" I explain that there are to be no more than three or four at the loading table. If I have to admonish shooters for ganging up at the loading table more than once, we revert to "in order" for the remainder of the match. That has always worked and thus the "mayhem" is avoided.

 

Picking a working partner to swap duties with is also "strongly" recommended!!

 

As for me, I don't care one way or the other!!!

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"When ready" is what I prefer for all the good and valid reasons posted previously.

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On those occasions where I've been posse marshal, I've taken a poll. When the vote comes up "when ready" I explain that there are to be no more than three or four at the loading table.

If I have to admonish shooters for ganging up at the loading table more than once, we revert to "in order" for the remainder of the match. That has always worked and thus the "mayhem" is avoided.

 

Picking a working partner to swap duties with is also "strongly" recommended!!

 

As for me, I don't care one way or the other!!!

 

^^^^^^^

THIS...and no one shoots until I have 3 spotters standing ready.

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When ready please. After I saw it done the first time at North Alabama Regulators, I saw the genius in letting shooters choose when they want to shoot. This sport only thrives on our enjoyment. During my instructor schools we specifically discussed the phenomenon that a person that knows the correct answer will give an incorrect answer just because they were called upon. But, more often than not when the student willing provides the answer they get it right without being called upon. So using a little "skullduggery" as one of my instructors used to describe it, put the benefit with the shooter and let them shoot when ready.

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The only thing I have against shoot when ready is when you see 2 people at the LT, so you walk to your cart and grab your guns, turn to walk to the LT, and see 4 people "jumped" in line ahead of you.

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