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MDQ at club level


Hoss

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First, I know what the rules say.  And I’m talking about a monthly club match, not an annual. What I’m trying to find out is what your club does in this instance. 

obviously belligerent attitude, fighting, under influence etc are pack your gear. 

 

But suppose shooter has a MDQ, dropped gun, 2 SDQs, maybe shoots a prop/table, maybe had a round of steel shot snuck in his ammo box  etc. he is not being reckless, just had some bad happening. Do you allow him to continue to shoot for no score, with the MDQ recorded, or does he have to stop shooting? 


I can see & have seen it argued both ways. Does your club allow MD or PM make a call to allow shooter to continue with no score? 
 

biggest issue I see at a club level is consistency from posse to posse, match to match. 
 

FWIW I’m in the pack your guns and help with posse chores. I’ve had MDQs, offered to be allowed to continue shooting but did not. 

 

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All of your examples (after the attitude examples) were safety issues.  That shooter does not have their head in the game or needs more shooting.  Time to pick up brass, record scores or such.

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3 minutes ago, Injun Ryder, SASS #36201L said:

All the clubs that I have shot with - MDQ - you're done!

 

Most pards that have gotten them stayed and helped with posse duties. Very few left in a huff.

Same here.  And haven't had anyone take it wrong.

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A match DQ is warranted at all levels in this game. I have given them at local matches at 2 different clubs where I am a member.

 

 One time I recommended the a shooter quit for the day as she shot her shotgun and the recoil made her drop it. Since it was person known to have problems, I suggested she quit for the day. ( I was vp of the club at the time and also posse marshal). Another shooter argued that it was only a stage DQ, but knowing that she had shot herself the year before at a match, I felt that she was unsafe and the match director agreed with me. After the match, the cowboy committee and the board of directors decided to ban her from using our club and sent her a certified letter. I felt bad about it, but as a officer of the club, it was necessary to protect the club from problems and lawsuits.

 

The second time was a new shooter that was at his first match ever and although we tried to convince him not to shoot gunfighter and to start slow, he put 3 rounds over the berm on his 1st stage. I turned the timer over to another posse member and had a long and serious talk with him of why he was match DQ'ed.  I got the club president and another club officer to try to talk with him and offer to help him learn the sport and to come and practice with them. Since he was a shooter from a different sport, he felt he knew better than us and was mad for being dq'ed on the first stage and complained he had been up half the night building a cart and getting ready for the match. Several other also tried to talk with him but he packed his gear and was never seen again.

 

I have only been to one match that a shooter should have been match DQ'ed and he was allowed to finish the match. He was shooting gunfighter and was a very experienced shooter and the boards on the stage were very slick and he was moving with his guns out ( one in each hands with rounds yet to be fired) to the second pistol position and he fell when both feet slid out from under him and he landed on his back. Although he did not drop his guns, it was total crash and burn and both guns broke the 170. He was the posse marshal and gave himself a match DQ, but with a discussion with the posse and the match director, it was reduced to a stage DQ by a unanimous vote of the posse and the match director deferred to the posse. Personally, I think he did the right thing giving himself a Match DQ, but all things considered ( rain, mud and other violations that day) I was glad that we survived and nobody got hurt.

 

Two stages later that day, I gave a shooter a 170 violation for pointing revolver right at me that he had just finished shooting that he had not holstered  and several wanted to argue with me, however when I explained what he did, they accepted the call. The real problem was a bad stage design. Start at a window and fire a rifle, move thru the doorway to a table down range and shoot revolvers, turn around and proceed back up range thru the doorway to the other window to shoot the shotgun.  When he turned around to move to the next firing position, ( back thru the doorway) his revolver was pointed at the posse and he holstered his revolver as he moved to the next firing position. He was the first or second shooter, and nobody realized the potential for a problem when moving back up range.

 

I have been shooting sport for many years and these are the ones that stand out in my mind, however I have seen many hard calls that had to be made to keep the consistency in the game. It is important to make the call as it helps the shooter and other posse members to learn out game and be aware of the possible problems that can occur when shooting.

 

Edited by Maddog McCoy SASS #5672
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IMO...

Allowing a shooter to continue "for no score" puts a club at risk in the event that another safety violation results in an injury or property damage.
Failure to comply with SASS rules at any match level could result in nullification of liability insurance coverage.

 

Requirements for Club Affiliation

-        Maintain no less than 50% of the club’s total members/membership in SASS®

-        Conduct all matches/competitions in compliance with the SASS® Shooters Handbook

...

-        Provide proof of liability insurance for the club/range/activities

 

Quote

MATCH DISQUALIFICATION PENALTIES (MDQ)

A Match Disqualification (MDQ or “Match DQ”) penalty is of the most serious in nature, and means the shooter puts his/her firearms away and is done shooting for the duration of the match.

SHB p.22

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Enforcing MDQ's are a necessary part of the game.  It's unpleasant and I hate doing it to one of my friends but if there are no penalties, there will be further violations.  A MDQ will be on their mind then next time they think about going just a little faster than the situation calls for.  Example:  Running down the slick boardwalk with the pistols drawn or shooting Gunfighter and just throwing rounds down range without aiming.  Sweeping the people and dropping loaded guns are very serious violations.  I've been MDQ'ed before and it's a memorable experience that I've tried not to repeat.  

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At all of the clubs that I shoot at you’re done shooting for the day when you MDQ.

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1 hour ago, Badlands Bob #61228 said:

Enforcing MDQ's are a necessary part of the game.  It's unpleasant and I hate doing it to one of my friends but if there are no penalties, there will be further violations.  A MDQ will be on their mind then next time they think about going just a little faster than the situation calls for.  Example:  Running down the slick boardwalk with the pistols drawn or shooting Gunfighter and just throwing rounds down range without aiming.  Sweeping the people and dropping loaded guns are very serious violations.  I've been MDQ'ed before and it's a memorable experience that I've tried not to repeat.  

It sucks to be asked to autograph the table you just shot a hole in with your shotgun.  

 

Kajun

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15 minutes ago, Krazy Kajun said:

It sucks to be asked to autograph the table you just shot a hole in with your shotgun.  

 

Kajun

Yup! 

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Its my understanding that a MDQ on side match day is ONLY for that day, but the MDQ is not carried over to the main match, assuming

this is approved by the Match Director/club.

 

BUT..... a MDQ on the 1st day of a multiple day match IS for the complete match.

 

Is my understanding correct?

 

..........Widder

 

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39 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

Its my understanding that a MDQ on side match day is ONLY for that day, but the MDQ is not carried over to the main match, assuming

this is approved by the Match Director/club.

 

BUT..... a MDQ on the 1st day of a multiple day match IS for the complete match.

 

Is my understanding correct?

 

..........Widder

 

I believe that is correct. 

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1 hour ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

Its my understanding that a MDQ on side match day is ONLY for that day, but the MDQ is not carried over to the main match, assuming

this is approved by the Match Director/club.

 

BUT..... a MDQ on the 1st day of a multiple day match IS for the complete match.

 

Is my understanding correct?

 

..........Widder

 

That’s the way it is at Wartrace.  See you at the Tennessee State Championship.

 

Randy

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Seen both the remorseful shooter that accepted the MDQ and stayed to help (been there) and the one that was mad about it and left in a huff. No one wants to give a MDQ, but it has to be done or it WILL happen again; with that shooter or another. And never be lenient on a shooter and not fully enforce rules and expect to enforce them with others. 

Edited by The Rainmaker, SASS #11631
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3 hours ago, Badlands Bob #61228 said:

Running down the slick boardwalk with the pistols drawn or shooting Gunfighter and just throwing rounds down range without aiming

 

Aiming?

 

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I've seen a couple of MDQs the last few years at local matches.  The shooter just calls the MDQ and puts his guns away.  Both were for the same reason - jacking out rounds from an overloaded lever rifle a little carelessly.

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37 minutes ago, Mister Badly said:

 

Aiming?

Whether using the sights or not, you're aiming at a target.  How accurate not using the sights becomes is a matter of eye/hand coordination, a feat that varies widely from one person to the next.  

2 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

Its my understanding that a MDQ on side match day is ONLY for that day, but the MDQ is not carried over to the main match, assuming

this is approved by the Match Director/club.

 

BUT..... a MDQ on the 1st day of a multiple day match IS for the complete match.

 

Is my understanding correct?

 

..........Widder

You are correct sir.

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I've never been in the MDQ club. I think I probably got a minor safety once or twice.   Seen a veteran shooter turn to tight and bump hand/pistol on edge of prop table and drop the gun. The TO invited him to keep in the game but he stepped away.

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2 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

Its my understanding that a MDQ on side match day is ONLY for that day, but the MDQ is not carried over to the main match, assuming

this is approved by the Match Director/club.

 

BUT..... a MDQ on the 1st day of a multiple day match IS for the complete match.

 

Is my understanding correct?

 

..........Widder

 

Yup

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I've had a stage DQ and a match DQ; I felt bad about both, but I want to "play by the rules and in the spirit of the game". Both instances  were a learning experience for me and I try my level best to avoid those errors. In the match DQ, I stayed on site; embarrassed, but encouraged by other shooters, kinda' like family. Not my finest hour, but at 85, I'm still shooting.

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We give everyone what they earn.  Some clubs don't count misses for kids, either.  I don't believe that it's helpful for a child if they think they never miss and have no idea how many misses they have.  How will a shooter improve if their mistakes are not recognized accordingly?

Edited by Black Hills Barb
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If a shooter, especially at a local match, earns a match dq I have no problem with them packing up and leaving. Some shooters can only go to a match or two occasionally or per month. If they DQ on the first or second stage maybe they can get home and get some chores done to enable them to shoot a match next weekend that they wouldn't  have otherwise been able to attend. As long as they aren't throwing a fit about earning the DQ. Someone who is integral to the match being run safely and efficiently, club officers, ROs should probably stay.

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This video doesn’t show it but when I went down both loaded pistols slid out of my holsters. First stage of the match and I fired 10 rounds. I got a lot of experience being a TO the rest of the day. I wasn’t moving fast but the wet floor was slicker than I expected.

 

Randy

 

 

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Randy,

I'll tell you what appears to me in that video.   TN Williams stuck his big boot out and tripped ya on purpose.

 

That's why he wears those big boots.   They're about 2 sizes bigger than his feet.

:lol:

 

..........Widder

 

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12 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

Randy,

I'll tell you what appears to me in that video.   TN Williams stuck his big boot out and tripped ya on purpose.

 

That's why he wears those big boots.   They're about 2 sizes bigger than his feet.

:lol:

 

..........Widder

 

Widder unfortunately I can’t blame it on TW, that was a few years before he started. 
 

Randy

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11 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

Its my understanding that a MDQ on side match day is ONLY for that day, but the MDQ is not carried over to the main match, assuming

this is approved by the Match Director/club.

 

BUT..... a MDQ on the 1st day of a multiple day match IS for the complete match.

 

Is my understanding correct?

 

..........Widder

 

 

23 hours ago, Hoss said:


obviously belligerent attitude, fighting, under influence etc are pack your gear. 

 

 

 

 

I have seen an alcohol related MDQ given on Side Match day that carried over to the Main Match, and I assume that the belligerent attitude and/or fighting would too.

 

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only experience i have with this was my first year shooting when a buckaroo dropped a loaded gun , not only did he accept the MDQ but his father [who wasnt shooting] agreed with it in that instance so no contest , 

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19 hours ago, Griff said:

How accurate not using the sights becomes is a matter of eye/hand coordination, a feat that varies widely from one person to the next.  

And from one hand to the other. My left hand has cost me a few clean matches. Lol

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Not here.  We haven’t needed this conversation in a long while but if the MDQ call is made it’s a keeper.  We’ll be light hearted about it, (depending on how bad it was) but you’re going to put your guns away.  Maybe just in your cart, but you’re not shooting and not wearing the pistols.

 

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