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Setup:

 

Shooter shooting full house Black Powder 45 loads. Shooting into the sun, slight breeze pushing left to right, high humidity, and low cloud cover.

 

Stage instructions: 

 

Shooter starts standing at ammo box on the left at shooter's discretion with both hands touching box. Rifle staged on right table, shotgun staged on right table. Pistols holstered.

 

Ammo: 10 Pistol, 10 Rifle, 4+ shotgun

 

ATB: Gun order is pistol, rifle, shotgun. Pistol shot from starting location, double tap the center pistol target, then, starting on either end pistol target, single tap P1, single tap P2, double tap P3, single tap P4, single tap P5, then double tap the center pistol target. Rifle shot from staged location, double tap the center rifle target, then, starting on either end rifle target, single tap R1, single tap R2, double tap R3, single tap R4, single tap R5, then double tap the center rifle target. Shotgun shot from staged location, engage the four knockdown targets in any order.

 

What happened:

 

Shooter successfully navigates the pistol instructions without issue and moves to the rifle staged location. With the rifle and shotgun targets now obscured by the copious amount of drifting pistol smoke, shooter double taps the center rifle target, then hits shotgun target 1 (S1), knocking it down. They then hit R2, R3, R3, R4, R5 and double taps the center rifle target. With shotgun, they knock down S4 then MISS S3 with their second shot. After reloading their double and looking through the smoke for a target to hit, they then knock down targets S2 and S3 with shots three and four. 

 

WTC?

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1 miss

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I'm thinking 2 misses, 1 miss for the rifle hitting S1 and the second miss for not engaging the already down S1 with the shotgun. I believe he should have just shot over the downed S1 with the shotgun.

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I would also say:   1 Miss.

 

..........WIdder

 

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I'm with Hoss and Widder, 1 - miss........but I've been wrong before (July 15, 1980)

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I'm thinking two misses. 1 for the rifle, 1 for the shotgun. There should have been 5 five shots on the KD targets, because S3 was miss. According to the OP there was only 4 shots.

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If I were spotting I would call 2 misses 1 rifle and 1 shotgun because he did not engage the shotgun target that he knocked down with the rifle.

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9 minutes ago, Cheatin Charlie said:

he did not engage the shotgun target that he knocked down with the rifle.

 

I would say he engaged that (already down) target with his second shot, because

1 hour ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

engage the four knockdown targets in any order.

and because in case of doubt the benefit goes to the shooter.

 

All other verdict would be guessing the shooter's intention...

 

My vote's for 1 miss!

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If Capt Bill Burt chimes in and agrees with 1 miss, we'll promote him to Major or Colonel... :lol:

 

..........Widder

 

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I think only 1 miss also..

and I'm also thinkin' he engaged all shotgun targets and they are all down..

 

Rance ;)

That's my thinkin' :huh:

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Didn't engage the already knocked down S1. Same as if the wind knocked it down. He shot at S3 which is no t near S1 so his intentions were known. SHould have shot 5 at the shotgun targets.

1 rifle, 1 shotgun miss

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1 miss

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1 miss.

At the end of 4 shotgun rounds, 4 shotgun targets were down.

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4 hours ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

With shotgun, they knock down S4 then MISS S3 with their second shot.

 

1 miss, the miss on S3 wasn't really a miss on S3, he was making up the  shot on the already down S1. :D

 

Randy

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1 miss. If a knock down falls without being shot, instructions are to shoot over the top. I have never heard anyone describe how far over the top must be, so I give the benefit of the doubt of the missed attempt on target 3 as over the top.

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Changed my mind from where I was before.  One miss.   There was a miss on the SG targets that could have been at the down S1 targets.  4 bangs of the SG and 4 targets are down.

 

I would have been no different if the wind had knocked one down.  

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Just gotta think it thru. 
 

1 miss because rifle round did not hit rifle target. That it hit shotgun target is immaterial. 
 

shot 4 shotgun. 4 shotgun down. We don’t KNOW where shooter intended to shoot when he missed shotgun target 3. Coulda been shooting at 1!

 

Follow  the flow chart!

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Switch to smokeless

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1 minute ago, Marshal Chance Morgun said:

Switch to smokeless

 

Not only no, but H3!! NO.

 

 

 

Depends on what the shooters saw.

 

I say clean since obviously no one could SEE what was happening :ph34r:

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2 hours ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

1 MISS, Cannot judge where the 2nd shotgun round was intended to be fired.

We have a winner!!!

 

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Are we SURE that the shooter hit the shotgun target? Is it possible that he hit the correct rifle target and the shotgun target just happened to fall?

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If shooter could not see, could spotters see?  If spotters can't see, they can't call misses.  OP doesn't say. 

 

 I was wondering about the targets being shot in the wrong order = P  with no misses.   Stage direction called for pistol, then rifle, then shotgun targets to be engaged.  One SG target was engaged during the rifle string and one rifle target was not.  

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4 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

If shooter could not see, could spotters see?  If spotters can't see, they can't call misses.  OP doesn't say. 

 

 I was wondering about the targets being shot in the wrong order = P  with no misses.   Stage direction called for pistol, then rifle, then shotgun targets to be engaged.  One SG target was engaged during the rifle string and one rifle target was not.  

Go back to the miss flowchart. 1st question.

 

image.png.69d25d7ac0dbb754b46a68b309316ae4.pngNo? assign misses

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I'm in the 1 miss camp as well.

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1 hour ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

If shooter could not see, could spotters see?  If spotters can't see, they can't call misses.  OP doesn't say. 

 

 I was wondering about the targets being shot in the wrong order = P  with no misses.   Stage direction called for pistol, then rifle, then shotgun targets to be engaged.  One SG target was engaged during the rifle string and one rifle target was not.  

 

That was a MISS on a rifle target.
 

Quote

 

A MISS is defined as the failure to hit the appropriate target type using the appropriate type of firearm and includes:

...

- Each target hit with an incorrect firearm – either intentionally or by mistake. 

 

SHB p.22

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5 hours ago, Tyrel Cody said:

Are we SURE that the shooter hit the shotgun target? Is it possible that he hit the correct rifle target and the shotgun target just happened to fall?

Spotters' call. 2 out of 3 and its a miss.

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Stopped by a practice shoot today and watched a guy shoot down 6 plates on a rack and then dump the rest on the dump target with his rifle. The problem was that the plate rack was to be shot with the pistols. TO turns around and says a procedural and no misses for not following stage instructions. I simply said six misses and no P. Not a P but 6 misses for 6 rifle rounds shot without hitting a rifle target. The dump was on the correct target.

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55 minutes ago, Major BS Walker Regulator said:

Stopped by a practice shoot today and watched a guy shoot down 6 plates on a rack and then dump the rest on the dump target with his rifle. The problem was that the plate rack was to be shot with the pistols. TO turns around and says a procedural and no misses for not following stage instructions. I simply said six misses and no P. Not a P but 6 misses for 6 rifle rounds shot without hitting a rifle target. The dump was on the correct target.

 

Were they falling plates?  Where did his pistol rounds go? 

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56 minutes ago, Ramblin Gambler said:

 

Were they falling plates?  Where did his pistol rounds go? 

Mr. Ramblin, you are very observant. Both rifle and pistol were on separate plate racks. His pistol rounds went on the rifle plates but I left that part out to shorten post and avoid confusion. The total call should of been no P and 12 misses because the pistol dump was on the correct pistol target.

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1 miss

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One miss with the rifle and he fired 4 shots from the shotgun and all targets were down so 1 miss. 

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