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For folks that didn't shoot cowboy ACTION back 20+ years ago


Joe LaFives #5481
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I uploaded a couple of vids of the Hole in the Bucket stage at Bordertown for Plainsman this year.  Howlin Mad Murdock was the Match designer for plainsman  this year and he decided to bring back an oldie but goodie that used to be a main match type of stage way back when.  Enjoy.

 

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I smiled more shooting and watching this stage than any other stage I've ever shot. I wish we could do this more often :wub:

Edited by C.N. Double
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Boy, does this bring back memories....  :blush:

 

The scenario brings to mind a conversation I had with the Judge back in the 'nineties, when he told me of his early goal of breaking away from IPSC type shooting in favor of a shooting sport that stressed "fun."  :)

 

The "good ol' days..."  ^_^

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This looks like a lot more fun than 15 seconds in front of a plastic table with 3 foot targets 2 foot away using a glock single action.;)

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We started in the fall of 2013 so my depth perception is a lot shorter.  But back then we had stories for the match and then a short story for each stage.  Then a line and often a prop - strong box, keys, sticks of dinomite,  etc. Now it's often stand and deliver,  first gun at the ready,  shooter ready? Beep. Next shooter.  

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10 hours ago, Tyrel Cody said:

Hard pass. Fine with the targets and movement, but wet hands = slippery grips and dropped loaded firearms.  

Wet hands by carrying the buckets by the handles?

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Sign me up.   I put on old school mini matches and you would be suprised by the amount of people wanting to shoot them

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Just now, Matthew Duncan said:

Wet hands by carrying the buckets by the handles?

Did you not see water sloshing everywhere? When the timer goes off few are going take time to make sure water goes in and stays in the bucket; I'm sure not. 

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4 hours ago, Lunger Dan said:

This looks like a lot more fun than 15 seconds in front of a plastic table with 3 foot targets 2 foot away using a glock single action.;)

Oh yeah, those targets in the video were real small and far:lol:

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Looks like fun. I often regret that I missed the halcyon days of SASS around the turn of the millennium. I have noticed this year there being more whimsical stages than I remember from 3 years ago. The spring seat stagecoach seat at the Gila Rangers NM state match, the Kick the Bucket stage at last month’s Tres Rios Bandidos match in Farmington, and the stage involving a sack of gold at the Rio Grande Renegades’ Fall Fandango come to mind.

 

 I appreciate the creativity of the stage writers who realize there is more to our sport than how fast you can shoot. Nice to see people smile, laugh, and engage in good natured ribbing after an unusual stage.

Edited by Cibola Al
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12 hours ago, Joe LaFives #5481 said:

I uploaded a couple of vids of the Hole in the Bucket stage at Bordertown for Plainsman this year.  Howlin Mad Murdock was the Match designer for plainsman  this year and he decided to bring back an oldie but goodie that used to be a main match type of stage way back when.  Enjoy.

 

No WONDER Plainsman stages take so long!!!!:D

 

I also love Lida Rhonstadt comes up right after the video! Epic!

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The first thing that went is doing non-shooting stuff on the clock. It's a variable that impacts the outcome, or so they say.

My opinion, and we know what opinions are like, as the sport and the shooters aged movement became an impediment to some. Also a variable impacting total time. Some can walk, some can walk fast, some can run, some sort of shuffle along.

 

All that and the fun h=game turned into a serious competition game.

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19 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

The first thing that went is doing non-shooting stuff on the clock. It's a variable that impacts the outcome, or so they say.

I disagree. 

 

It was on-the-clock non-shootinh stuff that gave bonuses that went away...

 

And do good riddance!!

 

Phantom

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There is plenty of room in the game for on the clock non shooting activities.

As long as those activities encompass, what I have termed as "Universal skills":

Carry the moneybag

Push open the door

Throw the drink into the bartenders face

Stab the dummy

Etc.

 

When these activities become an issue is when the performance of a given activity penalizes because of the shooters speed (or lack thereof)

I.e. a moving target that hides after a given time and bonuses are given for each hit.

A moving target that moves away from the firing line/ shooter requiring an already slower shooter to fire more of their rounds at a more distant target.

OR

when there is a time bonus for a non universal skill (usually one practiced by the stage writer and home club).

Throw (stick) the knife/ tomahawk

etc.

 

Additional issues can be created by the "Flip the card" scenarios that change the sequence for each shooter resulting in inconsistent stages.

 

All of these things can be incorporated into our current game - it simply takes a match director willing to consider the varying impact of any addition and how to negate the same. 

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16 hours ago, Tyrel Cody said:

Hard pass. Fine with the targets and movement, but wet hands = slippery grips and dropped loaded firearms.  

 

True, but did they suspend shooting at EoT during a heavy rain storm this year?

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16 minutes ago, Marshal Chance Morgun said:

 

True, but did they suspend shooting at EoT during a heavy rain storm this year?

 

No and I hated shooting in it and wouldn't have had I not dropped $1K+ in gas/hotel/match fees.

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22 hours ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said:

Boy, does this bring back memories....  :blush:

 

The scenario brings to mind a conversation I had with the Judge back in the 'nineties, when he told me of his early goal of breaking away from IPSC type shooting in favor of a shooting sport that stressed "fun."  :)

 

The "good ol' days..."  ^_^

Yup. That’s what I remember most. A shooting sport that stressed fun. 

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Getting the key off the deputy & getting the cuffs off your wrist.

Riding the storefront pony & shooting.

Shooting from the rolling stagecoach.

                                                                                                     Largo

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While I appreciate the fun in such stages, it needs to be balanced against the time allotted for the match.  It's why in the early days many stages were only 2 guns... Non-shooting activity took the time for the 3rd gun... On the clock non-shooting activities began to disappear as the 2nd revolver began to appear.

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Thanks to my good Pard Joe LaFives for posting that video, and helping out keeping score.

 

Also big thanks to Gilly Boy, C.N. Double, and all the rest of the shooters for pitching in to make it a sucessfull day.

 

That was the 7th or 8th time (lost count) I've run a variation of the Hole in the Bucket stage, nobody has ever dropped anything.

 

The twist is you have to be able to fill up a shot glass with water from the bucket after the last shot is fired, or you get a procedural.

 

The bucket is calibrated for 80 seconds, but you can go back to refill it anytime before last shot is fired.

 

I try to make sure the average shooter can finish the stage in less than 80 seconds.

 

I slightly misjudged this year, should have only had four shotgun or rifle, then it would have been just fine, although just about everyone had to refill, so it worked out okay.

 

I can get away with doing things in Plainsman that nobody wants to do in a main match.

 

Great fun was had by all.

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45 minutes ago, Howlin Mad Murdock SASS #4037 said:

Hole in the Bucket stage,

 

I didn't see the hole in the bucket when I first watched this video.  I have somewhat of a suggestive bladder and I'd have to add in a trip to the outhouse.  :unsure:

 

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I remember a stage I shot back about 1994. You were seated at a table. There was a bowling pin on the table representing a bottle of whiskey. To start the clock, you threw the "whiskey bottle" at a popper about two yards away (you didn't have to hit it). Then you shot a cardboard silhouette with a deringer (or pocket pistol of your choice) then stood and engaged 10 pistol and 10 rifle down range. I miss having those little tricks and scenarios in the sport.

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I started watching it, but went to make a sandwich while it was running. I think it's still going, so I'll jump back in & watch the end.

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I, for one, enjoy seeing this sort of thing re-introduced into matches without taking it too far. I very well know that the game today is not the game that I played 30 yrs ago and it will not go back to that. One guy’s description about the game on another thread referred to it as a bunch of Old Fat White Men. I found that description a bit unpalatable though there is no doubt some truth to it. We welcome everyone, but it is in fact heavily populated with that very group. Taking the time to accommodate them is IMO a very smart move for those putting on a match. The pendulum has made it’s swing to the far side where every target is virtually unmissable, lined up in your face and 10 shooters in every category walk away a winner. Yee-haw, what fun! Now, it appears to me, that at a number of places the pendulum is swinging back a bit. I hope it continues and that it stops somewhere in the middle leaving plenty of room for both sides to enjoy the match/game.

 

Snakebite

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Shanley and I plan to head the 5 hours East when Howlin Wolf and Co. have a 5th Sunday match...where they go 'old school'.

I enjoyed coming out of the outhouse to start the stage...

Finding my shotty shells in the boot...

Opening the safe and drawing pistols to shoot...

Sitting and shooting from a saddle...

All fun!

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14 hours ago, Oddnews SASS# 24779 said:

I remember a stage I shot back about 1994. You were seated at a table. There was a bowling pin on the table representing a bottle of whiskey. To start the clock, you threw the "whiskey bottle" at a popper about two yards away (you didn't have to hit it). Then you shot a cardboard silhouette with a deringer (or pocket pistol of your choice) then stood and engaged 10 pistol and 10 rifle down range. I miss having those little tricks and scenarios in the sport.

Then write stages like that for YOUR club, set them up and DO IT!    I don't understand this implication in some posts that these things can not be done for some (unstated) reason.   We had a WB stage at our last shoot where you started with a deringer.... just do it!      The only restriction I would suggest is (as was stated upthread) to avoid stuff that distorts the results with NON SHOOTING activities.   Like giving a bonus for things some people are good at and others aren't... or involving pure chance.   Include ANYTHING... off the clock, if folks enjoy it.    If its ON the clock make it something "universally doable" AND quick. 

Edited by Constable Nelson #11784
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I dislike the nomenclature of "fun shoot" because all of our shoots are supposed to be fun (if they are not - why are we there?)

And the term sometimes diminishes the shoots "status" because, "It's just a FUN shoot".

 

I think if the match director puts some thought into it - you can do the "FUN" stuff (even on the clock) without compromising the competition aspect.

 

And just because it is a fun shoot (or old school shoot) does not mean the targets need to be placed into the next county. 

You can combine aspects of yesterday with modern target placements.

That was my impetus for reworking "The Best Shoot by a Dam Site" a few years ago.

Old school components with modern target placements and sizes.

 

Dam Site included a dummy (our old buddy Stabby Joe) with a holster around his waist - one of your pistols staged in that holster (other was on a table or something).

You started with knife in hand - other hand on his shoulder.  Starting line was "I need to borrow your pistol"

ATB - Stab Joe (his torso is made of duct taped panels of Styrofoam wearing a cowboy shirt) - the knife will safely stay in the foam if stabbed with any vigor (at all).

Draw his pistol - engage the two pistol targets (his partners) - any order with two shots passing Stabbys LEFT side and three passing his RIGHT side.

Re-holster in Stabbys holster and say "Thanks" (one second bonus - no penalty for not) - proceed with the rest of the stage. 

Tho, I do like to include the LEFT/ RIGHT component with the shotgun as well (rifle offers too many opportunities for an error)

 

A beer mug on a table (bar top) and a bottle of beer/ water.

Starting line "I don't know why I come here - the beer is horrible"

Hands on bottle and mug - ATB fill mug to marked line (like a third full).  Dump the mug into the bucket

Shoot 1st gun

Return and refill mug to line - dump the mug into the bucket "That's so bad" (or words to that effect - one second bonus - no penalty for not)

Shoot 2nd gun

Return and refill mug to line - dump the mug into the bucket "That's so bad" (or words to that effect - one second bonus - no penalty for not)

Shoot 3rd gun

 

Two LARGE pistol targets (left one black and right one red)

Two LARGE rifle targets (left one red and right one black)

Card flip - remove all A's, Faces, 10's, 9's, 8's, 2's and 3's  (leaving only 4,5,6,7 value cards)

Shooter flips a card - color determines first target.  Number determines the rounds on 1st target.

Shooter decides first gun type (R or P)  (Starting line is calling out the color and number of your card)

On firearm appropriate targets - engage the chosen card color plate with the number of the card

THEN the other color plate with rounds _ thru 9 - Engage the chosen card color of the OTHER pair of targets (R or P) with round 10.

With the next gun type (R or P) - Engage the firearm appropriate targets in same instruction.

 

These are stages with "Old School Flavor" but really cannot provide any measurable advantage/ disadvantage to any shooter.

Even the card flip "feels" like there is an element of chance and variety in the options - but ultimately everyone is performing the same stage.

X number on 1st target - X number of 2nd target - 1 round on other gun types target.

Three sight pictures.

 

If the stage writer/ match director thinks thru the stages - Fun/ Old School is still possible without inequitable harm to the scores and placements of the participants.

Edited by Creeker, SASS #43022
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