Blood Thinner Questions

[John Kloehr]

Got home a couple days ago. Went to the stroke center Monday for a 2-day stay.

 

Diagnosis is TIA with zero brain damage (yeah!). No detectable loss of any faculties. I'm very lucky.

 

I'll have a daily aspirin for life, on Plavix at the moment. Plus two other drugs working to get the post-event BP down. Docs wanted to put me on stronger blood thinners, we talked heart-to-heart. I chose to delay and learn more first. I will be going to my regular doc's office in a couple days.

 

Anyone on thinners? How do they change life and activity? Most folks I know on them had an unlucky event and can't do much anymore, I still can. I don't want to swap out living for mere life if that makes sense.

[J-BAR #18287]

I have been taking Warfarin (Coumadin, rat poison) for 9 years, after a close call with a pulmonary embolism.  My primary care doctor prefers it to newer anticoagulants because it can quickly be reversed with a Vitamin K injection, and blood levels can be monitored, whereas some of the newer highly advertised anticoagulants have no monitoring tests available.  So I get my pinkie pricked every 4 weeks to make sure my daily dosage is OK.

 

I decided to adjust the dosage to my diet rather than make big changes, so I eat and drink what I want, and I still shave with a safety razor.  I bruise easily though.

 

I have no reason to try anything else.

Edited September 14 by J-BAR #18287

[Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L]

I had a TIA in April 2021 and they started me on 1 asprin a day.  This last year I talked with my doctor about brushing too easily. He had me change to a baby aspirin every other day and the bruising has lessened.

Edited September 14 by Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L

[Texas Lizard]

Get a box of band-aids...Every time I hit my hands on something, I would start bleeding...I always keep them hand and easy to find....I needed them....Wife not happy with blood on everything....Too much washing....

 

Texas Lizard

[Eyesa Horg]

Prayers up JK, glad to hear you're essentially OK.

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

I’ve been on Plavix and one baby aspirin a day since bypass surgery 6/23. No side effects except for easy bruising, which is new for me. I often don’t even remember what I did to cause the bruise. Minor cuts and scrapes are no more of a problem than before. 
 

Glad things turned out ok for you!

 

Edited September 14 by Abilene Slim SASS 81783

[Horace Patootie, SASS #35798]

What J-Bar said.  I had heart surgery and a light stroke in 2016 and got a synthetic aortic valve and ascending aorta. Been on Warfarin since. I was provided a meter and test strips at that time and have been testing myself every 2 weeks. Report results to Phillips/Coaguchek which in turn reports to my cardiologist. System works real good and as J-Bar mentioned the blood thinner can be reversed or dosage changed easily. I have 3 strengths of Warfarin and can adjust dosage easily. I also claim no brain damage but I can't prove it.  

Horace

Edited September 14 by Horace Patootie, SASS #35798

[Calamity Kris]

I have been on Eliquis after a hospitalization with multiple PEs a couple of years ago.  I get blood tests every 6 months.  I have always bruised easily.  The Eliquis hasn't made it any worse.  Best of luck to you.

[Dr. Zook]

Be very careful if you fall, being on "thinners" and suffering a fall that results in a head strike needs to be evaluated and treated appropriately. Usually a CT/MRI is done to ensure that there are no undetected 'bleeds' inside the skull.  Another is if you have a sudden onset severe, blinding headache (sometime described as a 'thunderclap') that could be the result of a sudden bleed in the skull from a ruptured aneurysm. Being on thinners obviously causes the bleeding to intensify.

 

If your on thinners due to atrial fibrillation, talk to your cardiologist about the 'watchman device ".

WATCHMAN Implant - Leave Blood Thinners Behind - For Non-valvular AFib

Relatively New treatment to help prevent blood clots from forming in a chamber of the heart and possibly get off 'thinners'.

Edited September 16 by Dr. Zook
added watchman info link

[Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381]

Aspirin is the most commonly used anti-platelet medicine. Aspirin is also the least expensive treatment with the fewest potential side effects. An alternative to aspirin is the anti-platelet drug clopidogrel (Plavix). Treatment is based on what caused the TIA, where it was located, its type and how bad the blockage was.

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

19 minutes ago, Dr. Zook said:

Be very careful if you fall, being on "thinners" and suffering a fall that results in a head strike needs to be evaluated and treated appropriately. Usually a CT/MRI is done to ensure that there are no undetected 'bleeds' inside the skull.  Another is if you have a sudden onset severe, blinding headache (sometime described as a 'thunderclap') that could be the result of a sudden bleed in the skull from a ruptured aneurysm. Being on thinners obviously causes the bleeding to intensify.

 

If your on thinners due to atrial fibrillation, talk to your cardiologist about the 'watchman device ". Relatively New treatment to help prevent blood clots from forming in a chamber of the heart and possibly get off 'thinners'.

I was on Warfarin for years and the VA put me on 20 mg Rivaroxaban (Xarelto) about three years ago.  Aside from bleeding, bruising, and similar effects It works much better.

 

I have earned a Black Belt in falling down in the last several years and every time I fall I go get an MRI just in case.  Last time was only two weeks ago.  I think that was the seventh time in five years.

[Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life]

SWMBO had a “saddle” embolism for Easter 2020. She has been on Eliquis since. Biggest change has been she is a very accomplished dressage rider and had to give up her horses as doctors said if she fell and struck her head the resulting brain bleed would most likely kill her before she got to the hospital. (10 minutes away)

I have been using clopidogril (plavix) since 2011 (off and on) after two 95% clogged arteries and subsequent stent implant. Another in 2022. I have never been prone to bruising and that hasn’t changed, but I was at EOT a couple years ago, didn’t have acetaminophen and took a couple ibuprofen, nicked my palm in the wild bunch match and the combination had me bleeding like a stuck pig for over an hour. 
YMMV

    

Gateway Kid

[Three Foot Johnson]

I've been on Warfarin in the past, but it required regular visits to the Dr. and weekly dosage adjustments. Then Xarelto, and now Eliquis. I don't remember why they switched me from Xarelto to Eliquis...? Unless I'm doing something where I'm going to get cut or poked, regardless, I don't notice any difference, like I don't start bleeding spontaneously or somesuch. I might bruise a little easier than I used to, but I'm not really sure. If I do, it's not a big difference. If I'm out fixing fence, I'm going to come back to the house looking like this, and it just takes a little longer to quit now than it used to. A long sleeve denim shirt would probably help a lot. 

 

[Warden Callaway]

I've been medicated to death the last two years or so. Been taking the baby asprian and getting bruised up and down my arms and hands.  I found out the asprian was the main reason.   I stopped taking it for several months and my brushing cleared up.  Dr. wasn't happy.  Told me to put up with the bruises and get back to taking the asprian. 

 

You can find anything on the WWW.  Some say asprian does no good. Others say it dose more harm than good. I feel like if it does this to my skin, what's it doing on my insides? 

[Slip Hammer Yates 8456]

I had a Tia in July of 2023.  No reason found for it and no damage.  I was put on aspirin and Omeprazole.  They also put a loop recorder in my chest for two years.  They are looking for AFib.  So far that has not shown up.  I have not had the bruising problem  either.  My wife insist it is what we call the Cracker Barrel coma (feel like needing a nap) and not a Tia  since we had eaten lunch there earlier.

[Irish Pat]

as you get older you skin gets thinning and you are going to bruise easy part of life 

[Wrangler Bob]

Stroke in 2007; brain bleed that caused inability to speak, use of hands and arm right side. 6 months of occupational therapy as well as physical therapy. Along with seven medications per day ( Plavix/Clopidogrel and 81 mg aspirin). TIA in 2019, short recovery. In 2022 diagnosed with "low platelets"; tests and bone marrow biopsy showed no anemia or leukemia, but platelet count at 56. It has been dropping and at last test was 46. Doctor took me off Plavix/Clopidogrel and added  81 mg aspirin. Their thinking is that may be causing low platelets (?). Just started aspirin, so I'm hoping for an improvement. Bruising has been an issue since 2007 and still is although a little less. balance seems to be ok, but I have fallen and I'm Really careful on the range when moving about. At 86, I don't need to be "quick and deadly" in a stage.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

I've been on various Blood Thinners for 25 years.  Initially, it was suggested I begin Coumadin (Warfarin) but I refused Rat Poison and started Aspirin instead.  

 

Yes, you bruise easily and you may bleed a bit more freely but you'll get use to it.  When it comes to Afib, and TIA, and Stroke, the alternative to blood thinners is really UGLY.

 

Be very wary of "internet and on-line searches."  Many opinions are generated by ignorance and stupidity.  Oft times, their claim to be "Doctor" or "RN" is just so much crap.

[bgavin]

OP,
I had a 4x bypass two years ago this September 22, a week from today.
They put me on Plavix thinners and Carvedilol to reduce pump stroke and pressure.

18 months later, I called the doc and complained about the daily hematomas I was getting from a bump or farting in my easy chair.
I asked to get off, and he said I should have only been on them 6 weeks.

Silly me... not getting the memo.  I stopped the Plavix 6 months ago and the hematomas have substantially disappeared.

 

I take the 81mg aspirin and still get the occasional hematoma from either a modest bump or a big fart.

 

Atherosclerosis (artery plaque) is a simple formula:  (Cholesterol + Blood Pressure) * Time.
I never smoked, and drink VERY little, but I am riddled with it at age 73.
This gave me the Almost Big One, and the 4-way bypass.

I shifted off Lipitor to control genetic cholesterol after several decades.
I went to Crestor (a different statin) because an MD client of mine said he found a study where Crestor actually help reduce plaque.
My numbers are still way in the green range even though my diet (diabetic) favors meats and fats instead of carbs.

Life is hard on you.
In the end, it does kill you.
 

Edited September 15 by bgavin

[Horace Patootie, SASS #35798]

27 minutes ago, bgavin said:

OP,
I had a 4x bypass two years ago this September 22, a week from today.
They put me on Plavix thinners and Carvedilol to reduce pump stroke and pressure.

18 months later, I called the doc and complained about the daily hematomas I was getting from a bump or farting in my easy chair.
I asked to get off, and he said I should have only been on them 6 weeks.

Silly me... not getting the memo.  I stopped the Plavix 6 months ago and the hematomas have substantially disappeared.

 

I take the 81mg aspirin and still get the occasional hematoma from either a modest bump or a big fart.

 

Atherosclerosis (artery plaque) is a simple formula:  (Cholesterol + Blood Pressure) * Time.
I never smoked, and drink VERY little, but I am riddled with it at age 73.
This gave me the Almost Big One, and the 4-way bypass.

I shifted off Lipitor to control genetic cholesterol after several decades.
I went to Crestor (a different statin) because an MD client of mine said he found a study where Crestor actually help reduce plaque.
My numbers are still way in the green range even though my diet (diabetic) favors meats and fats instead of carbs.

Life is hard on you.
In the end, it does kill you.
 

I must admit, I've never had one from a fart. Your pressure must be set too high.  

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Howdy fellow Oak Ridge Outlaw.

 

I had a TIA about 20 years ago.   Doc put me on Plavix, baby aspirin, and a couple other things since.

 

The ONLY known results from the TIA is that I have trouble remembering peoples names.   My shooting skills,

body movements, eye sight, etc.... are the same but name recognition is horrible.

 

Nothing else changed.   At 73, I still shoot GF and on a good day, I'm a good GF.   I just don't have many 'good' days.....  

 

Since the TIA, I've had stents put in both my carotid arteries and 5 heart stents.   FOUR years ago, I had a double by-pass

and a pig valve to replace my normal valve.    My normal Aorta Valve was all built up with plaque and had to

be replaced.   All is well now and I still take my blood thinners, such as plavix.  

 

I haven't had ANY known problems with Plavix......... BUT, I do understand some folks can get blood so thin that it

could seep thru their veins, etc.........

This is something the doctors check on periodically, or atleast that's what I've been told.

 

I really like my heart doctor, who has been the one to do all my stents.   His name is Dr. Malcolm Foster and he

is with TENOVA at Turkey Creek. (West Knoxville).   I think his 'group' is called 'E.TN Heart Consultants'.

 

Best wishes on staying healthy.   

 

..........Widder

 

[Warden Callaway]

I'm on my third cardiologist in 20 some years. Twice I've thrown the pills away and quit going to them. I couldn't function with all the side effects.  Second doctor prescribed statin and metformin and something else. The statin would have killed me if I hadn't stopped taken it. Awful side effects.  I only took half (one pill) of the metformin but it made my life hell.  No matter how I took it, with food, empty stomach,  half in morning and half at bedtime,  I still fought miserable level of constipation.  Now both those drugs have been taken off the market. I'm wondering if the six prescriptions I'm taking now will someday be banded.  

[bgavin]

I fired my first cardiologist... useless as teats on a boar.
(Heavy Indian accent) "You should eat a vegan diet"

I'm a labile diabetic and can't eat that amount of carbs, especially the soy based (estrogen) types.

 

My current cardiologist is retired military, M9 and M16 certified, and two of his nurses are Masons.

American English is his native language.
He stepped out of the cardiac bypass prep room so we could "talk that secret Mason talk."

One cardiologist client told me, "I am either in surgery, preparing for surgery, or sleeping in my office chair between surgeries."
That client gave it up, got certified in plastic surgery, and now has a thriving cash practice of boobs and butts.
He is an artist in boobs and butts.

 

[Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967]

Been taking the "baby aspirin" over 35 years; started on warfarin about ten years ago, thanks to AFib.  LOTS of blood draws, adjustments to dosages, crazy bruising, and dietary restrictions - basically, give up on green stuff.  I love green stuff.  Broccoli... brussels sprouts... spinach... greens... love it!  And missed it.

 

Now, I was told often that "you can eat anything green you want, and we'll just adjust your dosages!  Ya just gotta be consitent!"  Hm.  So, if I like brussels sprouts, I can consistently eat six sprouts every Tuesday.  A cup o' spinach every Monday.  Cabbage on Friday.  That observation earned me sympathetic smiles, but not much else.

 

So earlier this year I was talking with an old friend, and telling him about the brain scan I needed after an auto accident last December - mandatory when on blood thinners.  Anyway, the conversation wandered about, and at one point he asked, "... by the way, did you ever get off Coumadin?"

 

"Nope," I told him.  That started a bit of  "tsk tsk"-ing; he'd been strongly suggesting for years that I change.  Oh... I should mention that Dan happens to be an MD - actually, a geriatrician.  An honest-to-Gosh "Old Fart Doc."  And I reckon I qualified!

 

"Dude!"  sez Dan.  "I can guarantee you that if your doc needed a blood thinner, he wouldn't pick warfarin!  Just ask 'im yourself!"

 

I did.  And my doc said, "I thought we talked about this years ago!  Let's get you changed!"  And since then I've been taking Pradaxa and eating all the green stuff I want!        

                                                                                                                          

 

 

[John Kloehr]

Thank you all for your replies so far. I'll come back and read closer tomorrow.

 

Strangely felt no fear during the event, have not driven or tackled any strenuous project since getting home. My BP is the big problem (normal to be high after a TIA but still a concern).

 

Shot some .22 in the back yard earlier today, I have self-imposed a travel ban for a few more days. Another doc visit tomorrow.

 

Lots of things to talk about in this thread, I am a bit overwhelmed by your outpouring of support. One thing is clear is I must ask questions and take control of the direction of treatment.

 

Taught my lady to take my blood pressure today, I found good guidelines from a UofMich doc. Still too high but she did get a lower systolic number. Diastolic is the big concern and activity limiting for the moment.

 

Anyway, back tomorrow to continue this dialogue. Thank you all! And continued valuable living to all!

[DeaconKC]

Been on Warfarin for years, since multiple blood clots in both lungs put me into ICU for 2 weeks. Get checked every month. Like others have said, keep bandaids handy, expect bruising, etc. Take care of yourself.

[Painted Mohawk SASS 77785]

Eliquis now for a few years due to occasional  irregular heartbeat...can't really say there has been any significant problems. 

[Texas Maverick]

I almost died from a serious blood clot that covered both lungs. After a lot of testing they found I have a Factor 8 blood disorder that allows clotting. I was put on Warfarin for a while but I didn't like taking rat poison and having to get checked every couple of weeks. I was switched over to Xarelto and have never looked back. I will be on it for the rest of my life. I do keep bandages handy wherever I go. I haven't changed anything in how I live. I just keep in the back of my mind to watch for any cuts or punctures. Overall life hasn't changed any for me and no side effects from the medication. I get a blood test every 6 months and other than that nothing different. I do have some issues with shrapnel from cowboy shooting but so far nothing serious that required more than a bandaid and like everyone else has stated I do bruise easier.

 

TM

[Cholla]

As a Tennessee resident, sassafras should be common in your area. In Indiana, it was common for those needing blood thinners to sip on tea made from the roots. Small, finger-sized roots work best at making tea. People were always asking me to dig some up for them. I would cut the roots up into 3-4" lengths and sometimes split them.

[bgavin]

I do wish there was a mandatory autopsy class for every freshman coming into High School.
They need to see up close and personal, what smoking (anything) does to the lungs, and what cocaine does to the heart.

And what meth does to everything.
Get right in there with the latex gloves and look it over.

 

They need to see emphysema patients up close and personal.
Especially those with breathing holes cut in their trachea.

They need to see how the combination of tobacco and alcohol strips away the protective throat mucus that results in esophageal cancer.
And how the doctors make a new esophagus harvested from your gut and intestines.

[Rip Snorter]

Don't you recall being young and indestructible?  I suspect the effects would be transient.

[Warden Callaway]

1 hour ago, bgavin said:

I do wish there was a mandatory autopsy class for every freshman coming into High School.
They need to see up close and personal, what smoking (anything) does to the lungs, and what cocaine does to the heart.

And what meth does to everything.
Get right in there with the latex gloves and look it over.

 

They need to see emphysema patients up close and personal.
Especially those with breathing holes cut in their trachea.

They need to see how the combination of tobacco and alcohol strips away the protective throat mucus that results in esophageal cancer.
And how the doctors make a new esophagus harvested from your gut and intestines.

When I was a young man, I went in for a hearcut. In the chair was a big man (overweight) in the chair getting a short cropped haircut. He was accompanied by what I assumed was his dad. You could see a large crater in his head.  After a bit, he pointer to the hole and said with much difficulty,  "Don't ride motorcycles."   I've taken his advice.

[Dr. Zook]

27 minutes ago, bgavin said:

I do wish there was a mandatory autopsy class for every freshman coming into High School.
They need to see up close and personal, what smoking (anything) does to the lungs, and what cocaine does to the heart.

And what meth does to everything.
Get right in there with the latex gloves and look it over.

 

They need to see emphysema patients up close and personal.
Especially those with breathing holes cut in their trachea.

They need to see how the combination of tobacco and alcohol strips away the protective throat mucus that results in esophageal cancer.
And how the doctors make a new esophagus harvested from your gut and intestines.

You used to be able to go to the County Coroner's office with a school field trip if you were in Health Care Education programs -- that got killed off with the demise of any field trips (no budget $$ /No parent Chaperones).  We also used to have a 'scared-straight' program where at-risk minors got to spend the weekend experiencing what it felt to be booked/processed/segregated into solitary/protective custody and general population blocks, then be assigned sleeping quarters (cells) for the weekend.  Got to experience living/eating/sleeping and personal hygiene duties all from inside a cell or cell block.  That also got squashed after Sheriff Arpaio got voted out and MCSO was investigated for reasons NOT pertaining to this program.  

[J.D. Daily]

On 9/15/2024 at 7:53 AM, Wrangler Bob said:

Stroke in 2007; brain bleed that caused inability to speak, use of hands and arm right side. 6 months of occupational therapy as well as physical therapy. Along with seven medications per day ( Plavix/Clopidogrel and 81 mg aspirin). TIA in 2019, short recovery. In 2022 diagnosed with "low platelets"; tests and bone marrow biopsy showed no anemia or leukemia, but platelet count at 56. It has been dropping and at last test was 46. Doctor took me off Plavix/Clopidogrel and added  81 mg aspirin. Their thinking is that may be causing low platelets (?). Just started aspirin, so I'm hoping for an improvement. Bruising has been an issue since 2007 and still is although a little less. balance seems to be ok, but I have fallen and I'm Really careful on the range when moving about. At 86, I don't need to be "quick and deadly" in a stage.

Your platelet count is scary low.  In 2016 I had CAVG surgery (bypass).  Two days after being discharge from the CCU I developed six PE's in my right lung.  The difficulty breathing sent me to the ER.  At the ER they put me on a Heparin IV.  About 8 hours after two nurses came into my room and quickly removed the Heparin IV & replaced it with another IV clot busting medication.  The change was due to my platelets dropping to 80.  I had developed a Heparin allergy where one's body destroys platelets.  I was in the hospital for 15 days total with 8 days the time required for the platelet count to get to 160 so they could determine a therapeutic dose of Warfarin.  It took me 3 years to get off the stuff.  Hated the monthly blood draw for clotting time test.  When on it I quite climbing ladders & horseback riding.

P.S. Had a slide bit cut on my right hand when on Warfarin.  It bleed for two hours before the towel rap stopped the bleeding.  Was minutes from going to the ER.

[Michigan Slim]

On 9/14/2024 at 6:09 PM, Texas Lizard said:

Get a box of band-aids...Every time I hit my hands on something, I would start bleeding...I always keep them hand and easy to find....I needed them....Wife not happy with blood on everything....Too much washing....

 

Texas Lizard

This is all I was going to say. Cut myself at the cabin and my finger was still bleeding the next day. Blood was running out the first day. Scary stuff for us both.