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Alec Baldwin Shot and Killed Female Cinematographer, Injured Director on Movie Set


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The article said he was an "anti-gun" person. He is an actor, makes movies with firearms, which makes him lots of money, so it just stands to reason he is anti-gun. Some are not, but a lot are. 

He broke two fundamental rules, that us firearms enthusiasts know and do.

First: always presume the firearm is loaded, and act accordingly.

Second: always check to see if the firearm IS loaded. If you put it down, and then pick it back up, check it again. Even if you do not put it down, check it, now and then, to make sure. 

But never point a firearm at any person, unless it is a matter of life and death.....yours, or an innocent bystander. Always be totally aware of where the firearm is pointed. 

Now, he will have to live with this, for the rest of his life. I do not envy him that. 

He broke two important rules, and he is responsible. Like as not, he will blame the guns, and insist we need to eliminate them. To leftists, and socialists, and anti-gunners, that is the easiest solution as far as they are concerned, and it takes no deep thinking on their part (presuming they can think, that is).

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Waxahachie Kid #17017 L
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This is a terrible event that happened.

I am against the HEADLINES of 'Baldwin shoots/kills'...

And others looking to sensationalize this tragedy.

 

Many things are coming out.

 

I will not judge...

 

Some things said today...

There was not a UNION (professional) weapons/prop person on the set.

There was ONE live round in the gun...ONE.

ONE shot was fired that struck both people.

 

I question the choice to shoot AT the camera/people

I question how ONE single live round was loaded

I question why gun saftey/handling is not mandatory for ALL actors using a firearm

 

A lot to process...but, I pray, because that is the only power I have over any of this:mellow:

 

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Just now, Singin' Sue 71615 said:

This is a terrible event that happened.

I am against the HEADLINES of 'Baldwin shoots/kills'...

And others looking to sensationalize this tragedy.

 

Many things are coming out.

 

I will not judge...

 

Some things said today...

There was not a UNION (professional) weapons/prop person on the set.

There was ONE live round in the gun...ONE.

ONE shot was fired that struck both people.

 

I question the choice to shoot AT the camera/people

I question how ONE single live round was loaded

I question why gun saftey/handling is not mandatory for ALL actors using a firearm

 

A lot to process...but, I pray, because that is the only power I have over any of this:mellow:

 

This hits home to me, as it it just over the 'hill' for us...I probably know some of the folks involved...sad day.

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I still don't get why there was a real/live round allowed on the set.

Especially when there was the potential of a lot of people on the set, with little or no experience handling firearms.

I am saying a prayer for the lady killed and the injured director.

And let us NOT let the media get away with calling this a "Misfire" 

It was anything but. 

This was a negligent discharge and should be investigated and treated as one.

Edited by Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474
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6 minutes ago, Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474 said:

I still don't get why there was a real/live round allowed on the set.

Especially when there was the potential of a lot of people on the set, with little or no experience handling firearms.

I am saying a prayer for the lady killed and the injured director.

And let us NOT let the media get away with calling this a "Misfire" 

It was anything but. 

This was a negligent discharge and should be investigated and treated as one.

The union was quick to point out the prop master was not an IATSE union member... there's a big red flag for ya. Unions often do nasty things to non-union workers and those who hire them.

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As far as expecting actors to observe the rules of firearm safety... many actors know absolutely nothing about guns even though they play a gun-toting badass on screen. I once watched a blooper where a young lady who played a professional assassin was about to shoot someone when she pushed the magazine release on accident. Some professional. :rolleyes:

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I'm seeing a lot of "it wasn't a real gun, it was a prop gun" on the internet.   And that "they were making a movie, the armorer rather than the actor is responsible for gun safety".

 

If it weren't for those two delusions, this accident likely would not have happened.   

 

If the actors on a movie set were as diligent about checking each other as SASS members were, would this woman be dead?   Likely not.

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19 minutes ago, Sawhorse Kid said:

The set Armorer is 1st in-line for answering as to what happened. 

No, Baldwin  is 1st in-line for answering as to what happened. He had the gun. HE pointed it at somebody. HE PULLED THE TRIGGER! He should be charged with negligent homicide.

7 minutes ago, Sixgun Sheridan said:

As far as expecting actors to observe the rules of firearm safety... many actors know absolutely nothing about guns even though they play a gun-toting badass on screen.

ANYBODY who handles a firearm should have some training on the safe handling of one. I don't care if he does make millions playing Dress Up and Make Believe. If any of us had done the same thing we would be locked up right now. And yes, he almost assuredly WILL try to blame the gun, the Prop guy, the manufacturer, and anybody else he can think of. 

Keanu Reeves, Halli Berri, and several of the cast of the latest Jon Wick movie attended professional classes so that they could properly and safely handle their guns in the movie. I don't know Reeves' political view on guns, but  I have to respect them for that. I'm not suggesting that all actors handling firearms should go this far, but get at least an Eddie Eagle level of training!

Again, ANYBODY who handles a firearm should have some training on the safe handling of one. 

Rule (1) Treat any gun as if it's loaded.

Rule (2) Don't point a gun at anything you're not willing to destroy, (or kill).

Rule (3) Keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to shoot.

Rule (4). Be aware of whet's beyond your target. 

If Baldwin had followed ANY of these simple rules, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

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2 minutes ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

If Baldwin had followed ANY of these simple rules, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

I hate to make light of a very serious situation, but I'm going to anyway -

 

This is what happens when you let children play with guns.   

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There are folks on this thread that I have the deepest respect for.

But most of them posting are just plain WRONG.

A movie set is NOT (supposed to be) real life - it is make believe.

Camera angles are not designed and set on the basis of the "Rules of safe gun handling" - they are set based on what the director thinks will look cool onscreen.

 

An actor is specifically instructed NOT to handle the firearm in ANY way outside of the script direction.

This is designed to avoid muddying the chain of events/ custody if an accident does occur.

 

A live round should never be on the set of a film - but like the accident that claimed Brandon Lees life; there may be some horrible combination of circumstances that lead to this outcome. 

Regardless of my feelings for Alec Baldwin - no one on this thread (including myself) knows the exact details.

 

And for the "It doesn't matter - he should have checked.  Any outcome is his fault" proponents.

Would you say the same if the hood comes off a NASCAR stock car and flies into the flagman?  Should the driver have checked the bolts?

How about your airline pilot - You ever see him walk out of the cockpit to personally check the overhead bins are closed and that the doors are secured? 

 

These are professional people, a driver, a pilot, an actor who use a TOOL and rely on others to ensure the safety of their performance.

 

But we get all holier than thou because it is a firearm and WE (not them) have been drilled our lives with the rules; but I guarantee you have never checked the lug nuts on your rental car, never insisted on the installation of a Carbon Monoxide detector in a hotel room, never insisted on seeing the safety report on the elevator you're walking into or walked the piling of a highway overpass searching for cracks before driving across.

 

We ASSUME that these things have been completed by the folks assigned these duties.

An actor is no different - just a different tool.

 

A person lost their life, another was injured.  Tragedy occurred and you all prove to anyone watching that Pro Gunners are no better than the other side - because before the facts are known - we want to place blame and punish someone involved because their politics differ from ours.

I thought we were supposed to be better than that.

 

 

Edited by Creeker, SASS #43022
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17 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

There are folks on this thread that I have the deepest respect for.

But most of them posting are just plain WRONG.

A movie set is NOT (supposed to be) real life - it is make believe.

Camera angles are not designed and set on the basis of the "Rules of safe gun handling" - they are set based on what the director thinks will look cool onscreen.

 

An actor is specifically instructed NOT to handle the firearm in ANY way outside of the script direction.

This is designed to avoid muddying the chain of events/ custody if an accident does occur.

 

A live round should never be on the set of a film - but like the accident that claimed Brandon Lees life; there may be some horrible combination of circumstances that lead to this outcome. 

Regardless of my feelings for Alec Baldwin - no one on this thread (including myself) knows the exact details.

 

And for the "It doesn't matter - he should have checked.  Any outcome is his fault" proponents.

Would you say the same if the hood comes off a NASCAR stock car and flies into the flagman?  Should the driver have checked the bolts?

How about your airline pilot - You ever see him walk out of the cockpit to personally check the overhead bins are closed and that the doors are secured? 

 

These are professional people, a driver, a pilot, an actor who use a TOOL and rely on others to ensure the safety of their performance.

 

But we get all holier than thou because it is a firearm and WE (not them) have been drilled our lives with the rules; but I guarantee you have never checked the lug nuts on your rental car, never insisted on the installation of a Carbon Monoxide detector in a hotel room, never insisted on seeing the safety report on the elevator you're walking into or walked the piling of a highway overpass searching for cracks before driving across.

 

We ASSUME that these things have been completed by the folks assigned these duties.

An actor is no different - just a different tool.

 

A person lost their life, another was injured.  Tragedy occurred and you all prove to anyone watching that Pro Gunners are no better than the other side - because before the facts are known - we want to place blame and punish someone involved because their politics differ from ours.

I thought we were supposed to be better than that.

 

 

Best post on any forum today. Extremely well written. 

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17 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

 

And for the "It doesn't matter - he should have checked.  Any outcome is his fault" proponents.

Would you say the same if the hood comes off a NASCAR stock car and flies into the flagman?  Should the driver have checked the bolts?

How about your airline pilot - You ever see him walk out of the cockpit to personally check the overhead bins are closed and that the doors are secured? 

 

These are professional people, a driver, a pilot, an actor who use a TOOL and rely on others to ensure the safety of their performance.

 

A person lost their life, another was injured.  Tragedy occurred and you all prove to anyone watching that Pro Gunners are no better than the other side - because before the facts are known - we want to place blame and punish someone involved because their politics differ from ours.

I thought we were supposed to be better than that.

 

 

 

First - I absolutely agree we don't know the details.   If I were sitting on a jury with the information we have right now, I'd find Baldwin not guilty.

 

And my opinion had noting to do with his politics.

 

But two things 

  1. The airplane / NASCAR analogy doesn't work for me because in those cases you're talking about complicated pieces of machinery.  Here, we're very likely talking about a revolver that is loaded with blanks (again, we don't know for sure).   In that circumstance, a safety check is not a burdensome requirement of the person using it.
  2. Yes, I agree that the culture on movie sets is that the actors don't check their own guns or receive any special (or even ordinary) firearms safety training.   THIS IS THE PROBLEM!   THIS is a factor in why these kind of accidents can happen!   
  3. The fact that the actors are untrained and unschooled is the exact reason I likened them to a child playing with a gun (who is equally untrained).   They need to be VERY AWARE that this kind of accident can happen.   They need to get it drilled into them as intensely (or more intensely) as you get it drilled into you at any firing range or SASS match.   

So for those reasons, I respectfully disagree with you.

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Why would an actor point a gun he was firing in the direction of another person, even if he believed it contained only blanks?  Certainly this person has fired enough blanks in past movies to know that they are not harmless.   It appears that there will be plenty of blame to go around once the facts are known. 
 

Seamus

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I will admit, I'm somewhat befuddled trying to figure out, what, exactly, he was supposed to check on the pistol. Was he supposed to take the firearm - a revolver as I am led to understand - and pull every single bullet out to make sure they were blanks? Not knowing for certain, I assume even the blanks have primers, as it was an actual blank that led to the death of Jon Erik Hexum. Without pulling out the individual blank cartridge, his other option is to point the revolver at his own face and spin the cylinder (assuming an SAA style revolver).

 

Should he, in normal circumstances, pointed a firearm loaded with blanks toward the cinematographer and director? I don't know. I lay no claim to either of those job titles, and I've never been on a movie set. But, it seems reasonable that if the director said "point the gun at the camera and fire," that he would do so. If they were both watching to make sure he had the "right" look for the scene, the right attitude, etc... they would want to be as close to the camera lens as possible, to see what it was capturing.

I'm making no excuses. There IS a person at fault here. Or persons. I'm not comfortable at this point saying the blame lies with Baldwin. Like others, I have no use for him, but this is something I also wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

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11 minutes ago, Seamus McGillicuddy said:

Why would an actor point a gun he was firing in the direction of another person, even if he believed it contained only blanks?  Certainly this person has fired enough blanks in past movies to know that they are not harmless.   It appears that there will be plenty of blame to go around once the facts are known. 
 

Seamus

Actors point guns at other actors all the time! They also point and fire at cameras for the right angles etc.

Edited by Rye Miles #13621
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18 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

There are folks on this thread that I have the deepest respect for.

But most of them posting are just plain WRONG.

A movie set is NOT (supposed to be) real life - it is make believe.

The set is real, with real people and, in this case, real guns with real bullets.

Camera angles are not designed and set on the basis of the "Rules of safe gun handling" - they are set based on what the director thinks will look cool onscreen.

Which is still not a good reason to point a gun at somebody.

An actor is specifically instructed NOT to handle the firearm in ANY way outside of the script direction.

Are we to presume that the script called for the actor to point the gun at somebody and pull the trigger? ANYBODY on the set, including the actor, should have concern for this. 

This is designed to avoid muddying the chain of events/ custody if an accident does occur.

An accident occured because the person holding the gun DIDN'T know if it was loaded or not.
 

A live round should never be on the set of a film - but like the accident that claimed Brandon Lees life; there may be some horrible combination of circumstances that lead to this outcome. 

Agreed.

Regardless of my feelings for Alec Baldwin - no one on this thread (including myself) knows the exact details.

Also agreed. What we do know is that somebody was shot. What we do know is that it was 100% preventable if the actor had ANY knowledge of safe gun handling.

And for the "It doesn't matter - he should have checked.  Any outcome is his fault" proponents.

Would you say the same if the hood comes off a NASCAR stock car and flies into the flagman?  Should the driver have checked the bolts?

Not at all the same thing. The gun didn't have a malfunction or suffer damage. It did exactly what it was supposed to do. If a NASCAR driver aimed his car at the pits and ran people down, THAT would be the driver's fault. The car would have done what it was supposed to do.

How about your airline pilot - You ever see him walk out of the cockpit to personally check the overhead bins are closed and that the doors are secured? 

Same thing. If an engine fails that would not be his fault. If he drove the plane off the runway, it would be.

These are professional people, a driver, a pilot, an actor who use a TOOL and rely on others to ensure the safety of their performance.

The driver, the pilot, and the tool  are responsible for THEIR actions in operating the tool.

But we get all holier than thou because it is a firearm and WE (not them) have been drilled our lives with the rules; but I guarantee you have never checked the lug nuts on your rental car, never insisted on the installation of a Carbon Monoxide detector in a hotel room, never insisted on seeing the safety report on the elevator you're walking into or walked the piling of a highway overpass searching for cracks before driving across.

I'm not responsible for the lug nut on a rental car. I;m not responsible for a carbon monoxide detector, the proper maintenance of an elevator OR a highway bridge. I AM responsible for the safe OPERATION of the rental car, for NOT smoking in a hotel room, for NOT causing a hazard in an elevator OR on a highway.  

We ASSUME that these things have been completed by the folks assigned these duties.

An actor is no different - just a different tool.

The actor was NOT responsible for lug nuts, an elevator, a carbon monoxide detector, OR highway maintenance , but he is responsible for the GUN IN HIS HAND. 

A person lost their life, another was injured.  Tragedy occurred and you all prove to anyone watching that Pro Gunners are no better than the other side - because before the facts are known - we want to place blame and punish someone involved because their politics differ from ours.

I don't really care about his politics right now, I care that two people got shot. I care that because he doesn't know about responsible gun handling two people got shot. If this had happened at a Cowboy Shoot or a gun show, the person handling the gun would be JUST AS RESPONSIBLE for two people getting shot.

I thought we were supposed to be better than that.

I believe that we are. I respect you, and everyone here more than I can say, but if two people had been shot by ME, I would expect to pay the price. However this turns out, it's bad for all concerned, and as responsible gun owners, that includes us.

 

 

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16 hours ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

Somehow that sh**bird will turn this into an anti-2A thing. 
 

My heart goes out to that lady’s family. 

 

If that was scripted, was he supposed to shoot the camera?

 

11 hours ago, Charlie Harley, #14153 said:

Nobody is saying the gun is to blame, but I’ll also say that Mr Baldwin, the actor, is not to blame. He’s an idiot, a hypocrite, a narcissist, and generally a zit on the butt of humanity. But actors get paid to act, which is to say they create false impressions for the paying audience’s entertainment. ie, they are professional liars.
 

However, Alec Baldwin, the movie’s producer, is ultimately at fault. The producer is the head person of the whole production. They’re responsible for the entire crew’s performance, including that of the armorer. Leadership roles have their responsibilities and rewards. Something broke down within this production, and the producer’s name is on the blame line. 

 

Besides, he pulled the trigger.

 

Whatever arguments you propose or facts you uncover, I will change my mind only if they are reasonable. This is my view at this time.

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Baldwin is a pinko. He and his sycophants will spin this. He will walk and probably move forward making money trampling America’s Second Amendment using his First Amendment rights and a fair modicum of stupidity mixed with emotion. It’s really too bad he wasn’t the one shot. The world would be better off without that piece of $#!¥.

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Bearing Arms today has two articles on the shooting.  The speculation is that the accident occurred the same way Brandon Lee was killed.  One of the articles stated that blank firing prop guns are modified so that it is obvious when real ammo is loaded into it.  Theatrical blank ammo is rimless 8mm.  9mm & 38 won't fit in the chamber & 32 or smaller will drop through the barrel.

The speculation is that earlier the gun had been loaded with snap caps with lead bullets and one of the bullets came out of the case & lodged in the cylinder bore.  Then no one who handled it checked the cylinder before loading blanks for the scene shoot.  These blanks are loaded with very fast burning powder & heavy enough to cycle semi auto prop guns.

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16 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I also thought if Alec knew anything about guns he would have recognized the recoil of a live round as opposed to a blank. I've shot blanks before there's literally no recoil to speak of.

That said I'm not blaming him even though he's a scumbag!:angry:

He's a leftist anti-gun SOB who knows nothing about guns in the real world.

 

The people he hurt deserve sympathy but he certainly doesn't.

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18 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I also thought if Alec knew anything about guns he would have recognized the recoil of a live round as opposed to a blank. I've shot blanks before there's literally no recoil to speak of.

 

In my own experience, by the time I feel the recoil, the bullet is already on its way. But maybe I'm missing something....

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I got some news from the film makers… basically a preventable accident due to cutting corners and not having the armorer on set.  The AD who handed Baldwin the gun declared it safe without checking it themself.   I still believe Alec B should have checked it himself.

 

This was supposed to be a rehearsal.  The only way he’d hit both the Cinematographer and Director would be if they were trying to film the gun pointed into the camera lens.

 

Baldwin has said very mean spirited, anti 2A things following shooting tragedies in the past so I don’t feel bad posting this:

97499B4A-921E-401E-AF17-0B7EAF44C569.jpeg

Edited by WOLFY
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3 hours ago, Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 said:

 

In my own experience, by the time I feel the recoil, the bullet is already on its way. But maybe I'm missing something....

Yes and he supposedly cocked and fired it a second time from what I read, could be true or not. That’s why I said he should  have known there was something wrong if in fact he cocked and fired it a second time.

 

Edited by Rye Miles #13621
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10 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:


I don't know anything, but it is rumored that......

And those that do are busy looking for a way to cover their butts . Now the insurance co and the lawyers will have it out . Apparently Baldwin was also the producer of the movie so I guess ultimately the buck stops there . The only thing for sure is it’s going to be a mess with lots of finger pointing. 

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23 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

OK, a western, presumably a single action revolver, how does he hit two people?  

I noticed the same thing.
Trigger was pulled twice.

Baldwin is well known for his lack of anger management control.

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My thought is that if the production was to include scenes requiring real cartridges, Baldwin should have been keenly aware of that and damned sure which he was firing. If his question about why he was handed a "hot gun" is valid, then the person responsible for the loading and the gun bears direct blame.

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