Designated shooting order

[Chief Rick]

14 minutes ago, Marshal Chance Morgun said:

Designated order, shoot at will, not that big a deal. Just don't have 7 shooters all try to be at the LT at the same time.

If I'm the TO and I have three spotters, somebody to shag brass and somebody at the ULT I'd be happy to have everybody else standing in line to load.  Less peanut gallery yacking on the firing line and/or getting in the way.

 

I'll also state that I'm not a fan of designated shooting order.  As long as I'm not having trouble understanding a stage I like to shoot first or nearly so.  Then I can spot, shag brass, reset targets or TO (or all of the above depending on the posse).

 

The arguments for not knowing shooters - especially at a monthly - is bogus.  You don't know who you shoot with on a regular basis?  Maybe a stranger shows up - you should be able to recognize an alias you haven't seen before.  And, as said above, ASK before the shooter starts shooting.  If, however, your club does have a designated shooting order and everyone likes it that way, then so be it.

 

If a club is using index (or similar) cards and manually keeping score for each shooter I can "kind of" understand.  But then, I feel it'd be less wasteful and easier for whomever is setting up a "score sheet" and scoring to use a single piece of paper with everyone's name written on that.

 

I also feel the argument for spacing out posse chores is bogus.  Again, at a monthly, you know who you are and who can/will TO.  The problem I see more often is the peanut gallery not stepping up to spot/shag brass/reset targets.  Putting people in a shooting order doesn't help the workers, they still work just as much only now you're allowing the shirkers to not participate.

 

At a large match, you identify who can/will be a TO before the first stage and as long as there's no problem you keep that for the day/match.  As a TO, you ensure that your spotters/brass shaggers/score keepers/ULT get relieved.

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

I prefer shooting in order.

 

I get easily confused when everyone shoots the stage at the same time. 

 

Now, I don't really care what order we shoot in, we just have to make sure we shoot it one at a time.

 

[Singin' Sue 71615]

34 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Thank you!

 

Now here's why I posted what I posted...hopefully someone that ran a Posse at WR can help. Something in the back of my cluttered brain makes me wanna think that we received instructions that family members can do everything BUT write the score down for a family member.

 

Or were the Drugs just really good that morning...??

 

Phantom

Nope.

No score

No spot...

TO ing is allowed.

(Wich makes me scratch my head?)

[Silver Creek Jack]

When I’m the Posse leader before the first stage starts I ask the posse if they want to shoot in the order they signed up  or whenever they choose, it has always turned out as they choose, personally I don’t care!

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

50 minutes ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

 

ROI, pg 27

 

I know...see my follow up post.

 

[Blackwater 53393]

When I am the posse marshal, I will read the shooters’ list, after which, I will ask how the posse wants to shoot. I then caution everyone that so long as there are three spotters, a TO, a score keeper, and targets are reset as needed and brass cleared, we won’t have a problem. I recommend that everyone choose a “buddy” to relieve them of whatever duty they perform on the posse and I make it clear that EVERYONE WILL help out in some way.

 

 I then explain that if these things aren’t done, we will shoot in order and I will assign everyone some duty.

 

After a few minutes, everyone is shooting, working, carrying on and smiling!!  Seems like when everyone knows what they need to do, they get it done and have fun!!

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

1 minute ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

I then explain that if these things aren’t done, we will shoot in order and I will assign everyone some duty.

I know what yer saying...and I understand what you're trying to do here...but honesty, I'd be inclined  to leave an not return.

 

Phantom

[Blackwater 53393]

1 minute ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

I know what yer saying...and I understand what you're trying to do here...but honesty, I'd be inclined  to leave an not return.

 

Phantom

I suppose that would be your choice, but I’ve left everyone all the options, except sitting around doing nothing while the rest of the posse works!!  
 

Like I said, once everyone makes their choice, it seems like everyone has been happy AND relaxed!!

[Tyrel Cody]

1 minute ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

I suppose that would be your choice, but I’ve left everyone all the options, except sitting around doing nothing while the rest of the posse works!!  
 

Like I said, once everyone makes their choice, it seems like everyone has been happy AND relaxed!!

 

Yep!

 

I've shot with Blackwater plenty and would love to again. If you can't get along and have fun with him running a posse, this game probably isn't for you.

[Chief Rick]

I've never been on a posse where a TO had to "assign" jobs and I don't want to be.  Goes back to what I was saying about the peanut gallery shirking posse chores.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

39 minutes ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

I suppose that would be your choice, but I’ve left everyone all the options, except sitting around doing nothing while the rest of the posse works!!  
 

Like I said, once everyone makes their choice, it seems like everyone has been happy AND relaxed!!

Part of the reason I'd leave is because if the posse was acting in such a way as to necessitate you taking this action...well then...I don't think I wanna play with them.

 

Phantom

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

38 minutes ago, Tyrel Cody said:

 

Yep!

 

I've shot with Blackwater plenty and would love to again. If you can't get along and have fun with him running a posse, this game probably isn't for you.

What does this have to do with anything?

 

My comment was in reference to having to give babysitting instructions to a bunch of grown-ups...had nothing to do with him...

 

Ugh...

 

Phantom

[John Kloehr]

1 hour ago, Chief Rick said:

The arguments for not knowing shooters - especially at a monthly - is bogus.  You don't know who you shoot with on a regular basis?  Maybe a stranger shows up - you should be able to recognize an alias you haven't seen before.

I'm  generally the stranger. And that is one of the things different in this sport compared to the others I shoot in.

 

Most of the folks in SASS seem to be regulars, in other sports generally more than half of the competitors are not regulars, often not even irregulars.

 

For a scorekeeper, and for the rest of the group, knowing who is who makes shooting in any order easier. If more than half the group does not know the other half, and that other half also does not know each other... Have fun keeping track of scores. Having a shooting order in this case makes the event run smoother.

 

That is very different from "Oh, John Kloehr is here, have not seen him in a few months." I'm an irregular. And I do like the informal nature of such things as (lack of) shooting order in this sport.

 

Looks like another year and I might be able to change from irregular to at least often.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

1 minute ago, John Kloehr said:

For a scorekeeper, and for the rest of the group, knowing who is who makes shooting in any order easier. If more than half the group does not know the other half, and that other half also does not know each other... Have fun keeping track of scores. Having a shooting order in this case makes the event run smoother.

I don't know where you get this from...I've run posses for many years at EOT and WR. Most of my posses are made up of folks that didn't know each other.

 

We learned their aliases quickly and we never had problems...ever!

 

So...where did you get all this knowledge about how shooting in order makes these situations run smoother? Or is it just a guess on your part?

 

Phantom

[Chief Rick]

6 minutes ago, John Kloehr said:

For a scorekeeper, and for the rest of the group, knowing who is who makes shooting in any order easier. If more than half the group does not know the other half, and that other half also does not know each other... Have fun keeping track of scores. Having a shooting order in this case makes the event run smoother.

 

This has been the way it's been at all of the big matches I've attended.  There was no designated shooting order.  The TO and the score keeper communicated prior to the run or immediately after to ensure the score was recorded correctly.  The TO should always announce the time immediately after the run and then visually verify the score keeper records it correctly.  It's not difficult.

[Tyrel Cody]

4 minutes ago, John Kloehr said:

I'm  generally the stranger. And that is one of the things different in this sport compared to the others I shoot in.

 

Most of the folks in SASS seem to be regulars, in other sports generally more than half of the competitors are not regulars, often not even irregulars.

 

For a scorekeeper, and for the rest of the group, knowing who is who makes shooting in any order easier. If more than half the group does not know the other half, and that other half also does not know each other... Have fun keeping track of scores. Having a shooting order in this case makes the event run smoother.

 

That is very different from "Oh, John Kloehr is here, have not seen him in a few months." I'm an irregular. And I do like the informal nature of such things as (lack of) shooting order in this sport.

 

Looks like another year and I might be able to change from irregular to at least often.

 

It was zero problem on a posse of 25 at EOT, I knew 5 people and that is all. When the TO called the shooter up he/she asked our alias and told whoever was keeping score. By the end of the 1st day the TOs and scorekeepers had everyone's alias down.

[evil dogooder]

2 hours ago, Matthew Duncan said:

 

The years the son and I were sharing two pistols, a rifle and a shotgun we'd just mention the fact to the Posse Leader.  We never ran into a situation when we weren't allowed to "space out".  

We shot at one where you had to shoot in alphabetical order.  My daughters alias starts with the same as mine. My sons starts with the same as my wife's.    We have not been back

[Jeb Stuart #65654]

5 hours ago, Nickel City Dude said:

We many times have new shooters and not everyone knows the alias of every shooter so we always have a shoot order.  This way there isn't any confusion as to who the score should go down in the book for.

We shoot when ready.  The score keeper just asks the shooters name as they are coming to the line if shooter isn't known to them.

[Uncle Ethan # 94321]

5 hours ago, Nickel City Dude said:

We many times have new shooters and not everyone knows the alias of every shooter so we always have a shoot order.  This way there isn't any confusion as to who the score should go down in the book for.

This comes up sometimes, new shooter not known. Just have to ask him or her what their alias is. Not been a problem.

[Sarge]

Shoot when ready. 

[Rafe Conager SASS #56958]

When I started sass some clubs did have an order! Helped scorers knowing who was shooting and where to put the score! Most clubs now don't haver an order. I like to shoot 1st so no issue on who's 1st.

Rafe

[Jackalope]

I'm a big fan of "shoot when ready".  Is it really that hard to ask someone what their alias is if you don't know them?  Geez!

 

Phantom, I tried to answer one of your previous questions but was unable to send a personal message.

 

Regards,

Jackalope

 

p.s.  I also prefer 13-15 on a posse.

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

Shoot when ready.

Identifying shooters is as easy as "Call out your alias when you're called to the line".

 

And I warn everybody that if they don't call out their name AND if they shoot anywhere under 20 seconds clean - they will be scored as Creeker.

 

As for other posse duties...

IF you accept a duty - THEN you accept the responsibility of finding your replacement.

 

Do NOT tell me that I need to find a spotter so you can shoot.

Once the "original" positions are filled; 

Spotters, resetters, score keepers, brass pickers, timer.

You own that position until you find your replacement.

Makes it simple and clean.

 

 

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

1 hour ago, Jackalope said:

Phantom, I tried to answer one of your previous questions but was unable to send a personal message.

Cleaned out some PM's...believe it or not, I've got some from 12 years ago...something really is wrong with me.

 

Phantom

[Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L]

I do not like an assigned shooting order. Shoot when you want and it is easy for a shooter to provide their alias to the score keeper when they go to the line to stage their firearms.

[watab kid]

yes , i remember those days - no nothing says that was better [or worse ] to me but i have not seen a better work ethic by the posse or a worse one , nothing has changed in that area , there are always those that step up and do and those that avoid any effort if possible , this ties to another thread so i will drop that here , im good with the shooter choice order 

[Dusty Devil Dale]

8 hours ago, Nickel City Dude said:

We many times have new shooters and not everyone knows the alias of every shooter so we always have a shoot order.  This way there isn't any confusion as to who the score should go down in the book for.

Lucky you to be getting that many new shooters.  That seems worthy of a separate thread here, in itself.  

[The Rainmaker, SASS #11631]

Shoot when ready, just be considerate.

[Painted Mohawk SASS 77785]

No

[Rye Miles #13621]

17 hours ago, Chief Rick said:

When I first started CAS the clubs I shot at had a designated shooting order (early 2000s).

 

I know at least a couple of clubs still do this but I don't understand why.

 

Do you support a designated shooting order or do you care?

All the clubs I go to have trashed that idea a long time ago!

[Go West]

Wow, a designated shooting order is a blast from the past. Some kept it the entire match, others dropped one or two down after a stage. I don't recall the last time we did this, thank goodness. Shooter's choice has been it for quite some time.

Call out your alias and if there are questions, the scorekeeper asks. In just a few stages, names are learned (especially by the scorekeeper(s). 

I agree with Creeker, it's up to the workers to find replacements.

Oftentimes, the posse makes arrangements on how many TO's for the day and order they do their duties. No one wants to be worn out and they also have preferred shooting orders. Funny thing a few months ago, I noticed all of the TO's were at the table to shoot first because we forgot to see about our shooting preference. 

 

[Eyesa Horg]

The club I started at always had a designated order. I didn't know any better, but found when doing Posse chores it was always a panic to get someone to take over so I could get ready. Especially as a newbie I always felt rushed getting to the LT. And had to remember a lot of Alias's real quickly so as to remember my order!!

I much prefer the shoot at will I now experience pretty much everywhere. Just my two cents.

[Buffalo Bill Mathewson, 37826]

I don't like shooting in a preset order as sometimes I need a little more time to get a stage in my mind. Other times I may need to adjust my shooting time to be able to go take care of personal biological needs. 

[Matthew Duncan]

17 hours ago, Chief Rick said:

...The arguments for not knowing shooters - especially at a monthly - is bogus.  ...

 

"Bogus"?  I respectfully disagree.

 

I'll forget anyone's name within seconds of being introduced to them.  It will take numerous repetitions  and interactions with a new person for my memory to have a chance of remembering that person's name.   I'll remember your face and where we met but your name, slim chance.

 

The names of the regulars at monthly matches, took me a season.   Those that I have infrequent contact with, yea I know your face and give some time I might put a name with the face.  First timer Shooter I'd have to do a process of elimination with the non-regulars names to perhaps get your name right.  Being an introvert I'd will be embarrassed to asked you every-time you came up to shoot (IMHO leaves a non-friendly aura to the new Shooter).  I'd hate my trouble of remembering names to cause a score to be entered under the wrong name.  That's why I'd rather do other posses chores than be the Scorer. 

 

 

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

4 minutes ago, Matthew Duncan said:

 

"Bogus"?  I respectfully disagree.

 

I'll forget anyone's name within seconds of being introduced to them.  It will take numerous repetitions  and interactions with a new person for my memory to have a chance of remembering that person's name.   I'll remember your face and where we met but your name, slim chance.

 

The names of the regulars at monthly matches, took me a season.   Those that I have infrequent contact with, yea I know your face and give some time I might put a name with the face.  First timer Shooter I'd have to do a process of elimination with the non-regulars names to perhaps get your name right.  Being an introvert I'd will be embarrassed to asked you every-time you came up to shoot (IMHO leaves a non-friendly aura to the new Shooter).  I'd hate my trouble of remembering names to cause a score to be entered under the wrong name.  That's why I'd rather do other posses chores than be the Scorer. 

 

 

Uh...I think he was referring to the argument of "not knowing a shooter" for supporting "Shooting in Order" as being bogus.

 

Phantom