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Smokestack SASS#87384

Why would you do that?

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When a newer shooter or any of us who are trying to improve our game watch more experienced shooters run a stage, we look at what they are doing and often try to incorporate things they do into our own game. What they are doing is usually pretty easy to see but it's what they are not doing sometimes that makes a big part of the difference. The idea behind this thread is to compile a list of things not to do that we may commonly see people doing. Here are a few off the top of my head that I see often.

 

don't lever your rifle until it is in your shoulder. Doing it on the way up slows you down and I have seen it cause a round to go over the berm a few times.

 

another one I see commonlybis when the pistol sweep is 10 on 3, I see a lot of people engaging more than one target with both guns. You only have to engage 2 targets with one gun and one with the other. Minimizing target transition time safes time.

 

when there are 2 pairs of shotgun targets and you happen to miss one of the first 2 shots with a sxs, move on to the other pair with the next 2 shots, then reload again and go back to the one standing. Taking the makeup right away makes you swing more between shots and costs time. Make the big swings whenever possible while reloading.

 

So what are some common mistakes you see made? I really think this thread could be benificial to a lot of people.

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Using both hands to put down a long gun! Loading only one round in a double when you have to load for a single shot.

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I cant till you how many times .

I jacked out a round because.

I rode the triger and the hammer followed the lever back.

 

Then the rifle did not go bang .

So I leverd the rifle again .

Jacked out a round and had a reload .

 

It took some time to remember .

Just cock the hammer .

 

I imagine we all have or will experience this one.

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Wrapping and unwrapping your thumb from around the stock on your rifle as you fire then lever. Lots of new shooters do this and it is a real time killer.

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Split SG pairs. Shucking SG shells before starting to move to next SG targets.

Split pistols. Holstering before moving and not drawing second pistol till you get to second targets.

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Talking to yourself during your stage run, especially talking or making a body expression when missing a target.

 

These little actions add time to stage runs.

 

 

..........Widder

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Take a minimum amount of steps. Lots of folks reposition their feet for each gun.

Shoot the stage in your head several times before you go to the line.

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Waiting till the empty pistol is holstered before drawing the second pistol.

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Dropping a shell or two and looking to see where they went. Don't worry about them. Grab another or two and go! - I have done this a few times.

 

And, what Rooster said...

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Put your feet/ hands/ body where they belong "before" the beep.

Amazing how much time wasting movement and repositioning happens after the beep and before the first bang.

 

One of my favorite training mantras is "anything you can get done off the clock is faster than anything you can do on the clock"

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Moving your feet between guns when shooting from a single position. Looks like dancing.

 

Pick one stance and shoot all guns in that stance.

 

Watching falling target fall before shooting the next falling target.

 

Looking at where you are going to put the gun when finished with it but you have not shot the last round yet.

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When shooting a shotgun through a window and you have to transition right or left to shoot two more shotgun targets I often see shooters get up close and stick their barrels deep into the window. By doing this they have to take the extra step of backing up before they can move to the side. If they shoot from farther back they can keep better control of muzzle direction when they move from side to side. I was that shooter once. A couple extra feet between me and the target won't cost me accuracy but I find it safer and faster.

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Wrapping and unwrapping your thumb from around the stock on your rifle as you fire then lever. Lots of new shooters do this and it is a real time killer.

I'm sure guilty of this one and see a lot of other shooters do it as well. It seems to be a difficult habit to break. Also keep your levering elbow down as it doesn't cause the rifle to tilt sideways when levering as much and keeps sight alignment. Unlike my Avitar!!

Edited by Eyesa Horg

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Talking to yourself during your stage run, especially talking or making a body expression when missing a target.

 

These little actions add time to stage runs.

 

 

..........Widder

But......how do I stop the voices in my head!

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But......how do I stop the voices in my head!

 

STOP MISSING!

 

:lol::lol::lol:

 

 

..........Widder

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Top level golfers have what's called a pre-shot routine. It's a specific list of things they do before each and every shot to ensure they're physically and mentally ready to make the best shot possible. I believe shooters should do the same thing before every stage. Do everything on the list in the same order every stage to help ensure you shoot the best stage possible.

 

1. Before you get to the loading table, go over the stage in your mind two or three times to ensure you've got it down.

2. Check your ammo supply including your shotgun belt.

3. At the loading table concentrate on one thing and one thing only, loading your guns. One last check of shotgun chambers to make sure they're clean. Five rounds in first pistol. Spin the cylinder to ensure no high primers. Check to make sure base pin is in the correct position. (I earned four misses for this once.) Five rounds in the second pistol. Spin the cylinder to ensure no high primers. Check base pin. Make sure hammer is fully down on rifle. Ten rounds in the rifle. Check to ensure lever "catch" is out of the way. (I ate a LOT of time and ultimately earned six misses because of this once.)

4. Close your eyes and run through the stage a couple more times.

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another one I see commonly is when the pistol sweep is 10 on 3, I see a lot of people engaging more than one target with both guns. You only have to engage 2 targets with one gun and one with the other. Minimizing target transition time safes time.

 

 

Depends on the shooter I reckon. I always felt like I could shoot 2-2-1 faster than I could shoot a 5-shot dump. So one day I went to the range with the timer and... it's twue, it's twue!

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Split pistols. not drawing second pistol till you get to second targets.

 

Depends on the shooter I reckon. I was told by a fellow at the top of this game, "When you have to move, Move! Shoot when you get there. If you're drawing on the run you're not moving as fast as you can."

 

Since he's better than me, and since I can move pretty good and just shoot pretty OK, I put it into practice. Works out better for me. Exploit what you're better at.

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Depends on the shooter I reckon. I always felt like I could shoot 2-2-1 faster than I could shoot a 5-shot dump. So one day I went to the range with the timer and... it's twue, it's twue!

Yes, none of these things are hard fast rules and not all suggestions will work for every shooter. I used to have trouble with pistol dumps and would avoid them when possible as well. For me it was a purely mental challenge as there is no reason that a sweep should be faster other than that I was doing something wrong when dumping.

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When a newer shooter or any of us who are trying to improve our game watch more experienced shooters run a stage, we look at what they are doing and often try to incorporate things they do into our own game. What they are doing is usually pretty easy to see but it's what they are not doing sometimes that makes a big part of the difference. The idea behind this thread is to compile a list of things not to do that we may commonly see people doing. Here are a few off the top of my head that I see often.

 

don't lever your rifle until it is in your shoulder. Doing it on the way up slows you down and I have seen it cause a round to go over the berm a few times.

 

another one I see commonlybis when the pistol sweep is 10 on 3, I see a lot of people engaging more than one target with both guns. You only have to engage 2 targets with one gun and one with the other. Minimizing target transition time safes time.

 

when there are 2 pairs of shotgun targets and you happen to miss one of the first 2 shots with a sxs, move on to the other pair with the next 2 shots, then reload again and go back to the one standing. Taking the makeup right away makes you swing more between shots and costs time. Make the big swings whenever possible while reloading.

 

So what are some common mistakes you see made? I really think this thread could be benificial to a lot of people.

Smokestack,..Really good thread with some excellent points from you and many.

Couple of things that right off came to mind when reading your two fine points. Hope you don't mind me adding a little in regards to your comments. As a duelist, at least this one, one might find the more rounds from single pistol (dump) is not as fast as creating less rounds per single target. I suppose it is the move (assuming targets are not separated to much) from one target to next is consumed in the recoil . Example a double duelist who prefers left gun to start left and right gun to start on right might engage your scenario of 10 on three as 3-2 from left with left and 3-2 from right with right pistol.. i must say this does not always work to best when scenario suggest that it is a two on outside, one one inside, four on middle ( 2-1-4-1-2) with rifle and pistols. I would suggest a "brain fade" on a scenario such as this at past EOT cost me the big buckle. I aimed right pistol and completely forgot sequence I was about to do.(2-1-2 from right and 2-1-2 from left ) Although I blamed the mental error to age I did get a suggestion from my pard Non Stop after stage that in some stages such as this one it could be best to follow the same flow as rifle 2-1-4-1-2. Here I was thinking that as double duelist, I had best and fastest idea, and perhaps in most cases my way is faster, but I certainly learned that to bypass some confusion in stressed moments maybe letting rifle and pistol flow be exactly the same is better. I learned from the incident and considered myself very lucky to have an TO who identified my sudden loss in thought, watched my pistol through each moment, and directed me to target and number of shots netting me perhaps ONLY a 10 plus second mess but without the addition of a single miss. More on less dumps as duelists....I personally find that i can often edge a better time in a stage of at least one of each three with each pistol engaged as 1-2-3-2-1 rather than if I engaged as 3-1-1 as most two-handed shooters would engage (closeness of targets of course making a big difference in speed and choice of method).

 

As to suggestion of not making up standing knockdown until finished with string......that is certainly right, and for another reason, IF shooter (double) happened to stand one of next pair then his reload (ALWAYS LOAD TWO) for first standing knockdown has next barrel option for other standing knockdown. Emphasis on the ALWAYS LOAD TWO in double. Even if only one target to makeup, there is no guarantee that it is going down on first shot so having round in second barrel is insurance. Yea, I know a shooter can retrieve one and shoot faster than loading two to shoot one, but the fraction of second lost by loading two can be well worth the insurance....believe me i know from experience.

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If your fumbling bad on your reaload for a double some times it's faster to drop the rounds and go to your belt again.

 

 

Take a few breaths and make sure your ready to go before you say your line.

 

 

Once you pull the trigger forget the round. Either it hit or it didn't. No changing the outcome instead focus on the next shot

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At a large shoot that really matters to me like state, and above, i'll shoot a one stage match. The shoot will be 12 stages long, but the bay I'm standing in is the match for me. Most people can do a reasonably good job on one stage, if they're focused on that stage. Anyway, when you arrive at the next bay, that's your match, and the previous one's gone, done, forgotten. Let the other folks try to hang on, and shoot a 12 stage match. It's nearly impossible for me, but I can do it once 12 times. Lunger

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Yes, none of these things are hard fast rules and not all suggestions will work for every shooter. I used to have trouble with pistol dumps and would avoid them when possible as well. For me it was a purely mental challenge as there is no reason that a sweep should be faster other than that I was doing something wrong when dumping.

 

Agreed.

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Depends on the shooter I reckon. I was told by a fellow at the top of this game, "When you have to move, Move! Shoot when you get there. If you're drawing on the run you're not moving as fast as you can."

 

Since he's better than me, and since I can move pretty good and just shoot pretty OK, I put it into practice. Works out better for me. Exploit what you're better at.

And some ranges don't let you move and draw, or at our club load shotgun shells until you have come to a complete stop due to the gravel surface.

 

Top level golfers have what's called a pre-shot routine. It's a specific list of things they do before each and every shot to ensure they're physically and mentally ready to make the best shot possible. I believe shooters should do the same thing before every stage. Do everything on the list in the same order every stage to help ensure you shoot the best stage possible.

 

1. Before you get to the loading table, go over the stage in your mind two or three times to ensure you've got it down.

2. Check your ammo supply including your shotgun belt.

3. At the loading table concentrate on one thing and one thing only, loading your guns. One last check of shotgun chambers to make sure they're clean. Five rounds in first pistol. Spin the cylinder to ensure no high primers. Check to make sure base pin is in the correct position. (I earned four misses for this once.) Five rounds in the second pistol. Spin the cylinder to ensure no high primers. Check base pin. Make sure hammer is fully down on rifle. Ten rounds in the rifle. Check to ensure lever "catch" is out of the way. (I ate a LOT of time and ultimately earned six misses because of this once.)

4. Close your eyes and run through the stage a couple more times.

This makes me wonder if all the great gunfighters of the past went through the checklist. I imagine the some of the gun battles like the OK corral would have been long over before one got to number 3.

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when shooting falling plate racks, don't wait for a plate to fall before going on to next plate. go back and pick up any still-standing plates. on a in-line rack, where a plate has to fall to expose the next plate, just keep on shooting. if the plate is not all the way down just hit it again. Just be mindful that you have to have at least 1 bullet for the very last plate!

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Go so fast that the spotters can't tell if you fired 10 or just 9 rounds... Stop and enjoy the placement of that lost shot... it was exquisite! So brag a little! Question the T-O about the real purpose of life, who knows, he may have a secret that is unknown to the rest of us. If you take 60 seconds to shoot a stage, is it going to change who wins the Cadillac? But, you're having 3 times the fun the 20-second shooter is getting! :ph34r: Maybe more!

 

Or, not... depending on your ambition.

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Wrapping and unwrapping your thumb from around the stock on your rifle as you fire then lever. Lots of new shooters do this and it is a real time killer.

I had this time honored habit from shooting ever since I was a toddler. But then I started shooting my C. Sharps with a tang sight. After the first time blood got to leaking out of my thumb, I started working on keeping my thumb resting on the side of the stock.

 

Not only does it help with speed in CAS, but also for long range and accuracy since you're not as prone to twist or torque the stock during your squeeze.

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Keep the shotgun long guns on yer shoulder when reloading.......especially the 97, and quit twisting it around to see the port. Drop in the round, slam-bang-rack next round ;) Good Luck :)

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I see an awful lot of people screw up this stage over what they screwed up on the last stage. Move on. It helps having NO short term memory I dont remember what I screwed up on the last stage

my$.02

Imis

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I do everything wrong. They've given up tutoring me. I'm happy if I don't get a P. Even happier if I shoot a clean stage.

 

I do try to take a deep breath when the TO asks me if I'm ready then I say the line or reply yes.

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If you know what you're doing wrong, you can fix it!

Just not a high priority to me. I've been wrapping my thumb over the stock for over 50 years. I actually practiced and tried holding thumb out but I wouldn't always get the lever closed. I lost more than I gained. I like to shot antique 10 gauge shotguns that weigh over 10 pounds.

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Making sure the guns are in good condition, leather is in good condition (holsters powdered if necessary), and that all ammo is in good condition and will work optimally.........

BEFORE COMING TO THE MATCH!!!!

 

How many times have we watched a new shooter or a not-gonna-progress shooter work through gun, leather or ammo issues during a timed stage and not seem surprised? If this is how you enjoy CAS, fine. But you cannot be a shooter that expects to shoot in the top 20% if these things are not handled beforehand.

 

Example:

Cowboy #1: Yeh, I thought this ammo might be a problem.

Cowboy #2: Your round sounded different each time that one actually went off. It was like listening to music, with a rest every once in a while as you had to dig a round out of the action that would not feed.

Cowboy #1: Yep. I used the last of three different kinds of powders in this batch of ammo. My dies have also not been staying tight in the press. I did not have time to inspect my ammo this month. Maybe next month.

Cowboy #2: Do you want to get a new set of dies and come practice before the next match?

Cowboy #1: Naw. My guns are sighted in. I get enough practice at matches.

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My biggest thing that I can suggest that really help me out was to stop staring at the Target and waiting for the buzzer...as in I look at my targets and mentally go through the shooting sequence in my head make sure my feet and my guns are where I need them.. I keep my eyes on my gun as I say my starting line at the buzzer I grabbed my gun and i follow my sights to my first Target and so o ...your eyes adjust faster from close to far then from far to close...

Edited by Texas Stiles

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