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Do We Need to Address "Designer Jeans"?


Blackjack Zak

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Hello Everyone!

 

At the TG meeting at EOT this year the issue of "Designer Jeans" was raised as a concern of many. Currently on Page 27 of the SHB, under "Outlawed", you will find "Designer Jeans" listed.

 

Part of the problem is that we really don't have a definition of "Designer Jeans" but we all know what they are. The ROC was asked to come up with a definition, however some have asked if this is even a problem? Clearly it is in our rule book, and like all rules, either they be followed or removed from the book.

 

At the risk of starting yet another "clothing" can of worms, we (the ROC) want to know what you all think about the issue. Please don't hold back, but don't shoot the messenger / presenter either. :(

 

This post will be on the TG Forum also.

 

"......Let slip the dogs of war...."...or something like that!

 

 

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I would think it's not a real problem, and the rule about designer jeans should be removed.

 

With the addition of B-Western category, I believe we have extended SASS into the realm of movie-land "fantasy" clothing already, and that there is no longer a need to restrict "clothing bling" in other categories, either.

 

Designer jeans are sure not providing a competitive advantage to a shooter. So they should not be outlawed from the viewpoint of insuring even competition among shooters.

 

If you can't define it, you sure can't make a rule that will be uniformly applied.

 

Good luck, GJ

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Ain't never seen a feller wear them, but if a gal wants to wear them and that's the closest she has to cowgirl clothes to come shoot in I ain't got a problem with it. If they stick with the game long I think most will find other things, more comfortable things to wear.

 

Is it a problem under the current rules, I don't know, were there any warnings or whatever handed out at EOT? WR? Regionals?

 

They may be right though about needing a definition, if a plain old pair of Levi's or Wranglers or Lee jeans have been 'bedazzled' does that make them 'designer?'

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BJ Zak,

 

part of a definition could restrict the usage of 'adornments' on them like shiny rivets down the side of the pant leg or bordering the pockets.

 

or maybe restricting the usage of colorful stitching on the pockets, both front and back.

 

 

Now, I only listed those items above because in a sarcastic way, those restrictions would be counter productive to the BWestern category..... especially for the Ladies. And we surely don't want to ruffle those feathers. Atleast I don't.

 

IF somebody decides to create a definition, I hope they do it with pictures to show 'Allowed' ..... 'DisAllowed'.

 

Ifn it were ME, I would probably consider the advice given by Garrison Joe and do away with the rule.

 

 

..........Widder

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Well, the way I see it, the B-Western category already allows some pretty gaudy "western" adornment, so if anyone wants to draw attention to their rear ends and legs by adding some glitter and sequins, let them do it in B- Western but reserve the other categories for those who enjoy getting into the spirit of the old west, including their clothing.

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The problem rears it head (or butt) in the B-Western category on many occasions.

Tight fitting and/or decorated jeans appear on women more than men in this category.

Once again we are back to a subjective call by the match director. I have seen jeans with decorated stripes down the side seam. Rhinestones on the rear pockets as well as fully printed jean material.

Pants with greatly exaggerated flared bottoms have also been observed. (Like Elvis use to wear on his jump suits)

 

Please. Instead of trying to define what isn't allowed. Define what IS allowed and disallow everything else just as you do in the external modification of guns.

For example:

Pants must be jeans, ranch pants, or pants with flap over the rear pocket, keystone belt loops, and/or piping or fringe.

Could be rewritten - Pants must be denim jeans of the type depicted in western movies of the genre. Ranch pants or pants with a flap over the rear pocket or keystone belt loops. In addition, these pants may have piping or fringe.

 

Notice that the rule already states MUST BE not MAY BE.

The category name is B-Western not Rhinestone Cowboy.

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I think it's a waste of effort,we don't enforce the clothing rules now, more rules is just going to cause more hard feelings. Winter Range did a good job at checking B-Western and Classic Cowboy, but I've seen lots of violations at other shoots.

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What I have seen that I would have called designer jeans.

Has already been either overlooked or ruled legal at major matches now anyway.

So why bother with it.

Just take it out and be done.

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If Al wants to ware bling jeans let him.Let the ladies ware what will get them out to shoots.Take the rule out.

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There are designer jeans that look like regular jeans. Heck, Levi makes designer jeans. Wrangle designs jeans.

 

The term "designer jeans" is antiquated in its application. Strike it from the book.

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Get rid of the rule. I draw the line at Spandex though!

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Get rid of the rule. I draw the line at Spandex though!

 

 

Dangit! And I just got a pair of designer Wrangler Spandex bedazzled pants custom made with extra butt bling!

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I have never seen anyone at a shoot wearing what "I" would consider designer jeans, although I have seen people wearing jeans that others might consider to be designer jeans because they have a few extra stitches. I think the rule could stay in place and continue as is, maybe change it to a "suggestion" for authenticity sake? I believe its one of those rules that people read and say "oh I won't wear my designer jeans", and most people follow. If someone doesn't, well probably not an issue to worry about.

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Designer jeans in one persons eyes may not be designer jeans in another persons eyes or tastes. I'm thinking a big old can of worms may be opened.

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I think it's a waste of effort,we don't enforce the clothing rules now, more rules is just going to cause more hard feelings. Winter Range did a good job at checking B-Western and Classic Cowboy, but I've seen lots of violations at other shoots.

Agree whole heartedly with this statement.

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At the club level, many items of clothing are allowed that might not be in annual or regional matches. I noticed that when a classic cowboy or B western outfit is reviewed for inclusion into the appropriate category, and does not measure up, the participant is allowed to shoot in another category. If "designer" jeans are allowed, then is the participant turned away and not allowed to shoot? Seems like a fairly drastic solution.

 

If the term can't be defined, it can't be enforced. The only definition I can think of is that if jeans are worn, they can have no embellishment. If anyone wants to accept that definition and enforce it, good luck.

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Designer jeans in one persons eyes may not be designer jeans in another persons eyes or tastes. I'm thinking a big old can of worms may be opened.

 

 

+1

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Dangit! And I just got a pair of designer Wrangler Spandex bedazzled pants custom made with extra butt bling!

Grizzley-send me a pic :-)

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Next thing ya know they will outlaw thongs.

 

Remove the rule, save the energy to enforce.

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Hi Folks,

 

I think jeans are a minor problem. Please stop the short-sleeve T shirts, ball caps, and white athletic shoes.

 

I hate thinking Outlawed in SASS has become as meaningless as Illegal is in regard to immigration.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

 

Are you saying that folks are showing up in such attire to shoot a CAS match? Aside from monthly matches where a club may have made specific allowances for hot weather.

 

I'm a bit more laid back than some, to me shorts and a t-shirt is fine around the camp, at the camp potluck, or even just walking to the range to pick up your shooter packet. For side matches and the main match, dress the part. For a banquet and awards, dress the part, but other than that be comfortable.

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Dangit! And I just got a pair of designer Wrangler Spandex bedazzled pants custom made with extra butt bling!

 

EEEEWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am NOT helpin' yu git dressed no more..... :blink::blink: :blink: :blink::blink::blink:

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I don't want to be one to MDQ someone on the second stage of the day for a judgment call on Designer Jeans!

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If a rule is "subjective" and allows for different interpatation by different match directors, it can cause hurt feelings (Black jack Zack said this pair of jeans was fine to shoot winter range, but TA Chance won't let me wear them at Bordertown) and dare I say "unsportsmanlike calls" ( since I'm the match director, and shooting b-western I'm gonna declare any jeans that slick mclade wears to be "designer" ), the rule needs a very specific and unquestionable definition (almost impossible in this case) or it needs to go. And frankly 20 years ago the line between "designer jeans" and regular jeans was much clearer than it is now.

 

The rule should be removed.

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Having purchased designer jeans in the past for my wife, I know for certain that I'm not about to go shooting in $300+ pants. Not with the way I abuse them. $30 Levi's work fine for me

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Since we say this, "Cowboy Action Shooting™ is a combination of historical reenactment and Saturday morning at the matinee. Participants may choose the style of costume they wish to wear, but all clothing must be typical of the late 19th century, a B-western movie, or Western television series."

 

So, now I try to contrast B-Western or Western television series jeans (some of which had really great/fancy stitching) with the "outlawed" designer jeans...

 

...now try to define the outlawed designer jeans such that it does not preclude really fancy B-Western or Western tv series jeans...

 

...leave it alone and let it be the Match Director(s) call along with those TG's in attendance.

 

...sometimes we just need to let common sense prevail along with MD's judgement....

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From the TG Agenda notes.

 

10) OPEN DISCUSSION ITEMS:

 Regional Map: in need of an update on the SASS Website.

 

 Jeans: Request definition of “designer jeans” (Outlawed item).

 

 Logo outerwear: Major discussion regarding wearing “logo’d” outerwear during inclement weather (up to, but not ON the stage); particularly during cold/wet seasons.  Difference of opinion between members of the WB on this issue.

 

 

Clothing and costuming continues to be relaxed and unenforced,,, The kinda/maybe exception is B Western and CC,,,, and that is only at kinda/maybe at annuals and above matches.

 

Look at the third bullet item, relaxed outer wear during inclement weather. now I get to see 'Billy Bob Excavation' or 'Billy Bob Bullets" Logo on the Carhartt jacket during an undefined inclement weather conditions.

 

With the trend from the past and the tread forward, go ahead and eliminate the designer Jean rule (which isn't defined). Might as well eliminate the Shady Brady hat too.

 

Spandex trousers that resemble denim jeans should work,,, oh heck just allow Spandex and a floppy top with whatever shoes.

 

Bottom line, don't make a rule that the organization is unwilling to enforce.

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I say remove the rule, it's not enforceable. Is anyone really gonna tell a shooter to go home because he/she has designer jeans?? I think not. Just my two cents!

 

Rye

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If allowing shooters to wear designer jeans will get more folks out to the range and shooting I say get rid of the rule. They are blue and denim that's good enough.

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