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Do We Need to Address "Designer Jeans"?


Blackjack Zak

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Which part is it not in compliance with? The only thing I can find is she's not wearing boots.

I'll be glad to answer your question in private if you wish.

This thread is not a discussion about B-Western costuming requirements.

It is about designer jeans.

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I think the first designer jeans I ever saw were being worn by Dale Evans or some similar actress performing in a B-Western TV show. I am not at all sure how the rule was ever enacted, but it serves no useful purpose. I say it is time to remove it.

 

I guess the objection to the jeans in the photograph up thread is the models were wearing skin tight jeans. I don't know anybody who wants to wear skintight jeans shooting. If they do it is only because they have put on some extra weight.

 

think spandex, think spandex that is blue in color and has text similar to denim, has pockets where Levi/Wrangler pants are,,, but is very stretchy and fits the skin like a ,,,,,second skin. After a time, just remove the pockets and you got what you see women wearing on the street and in one of the pictures above.

 

Just imagine the stink if somebody decided to enforce the rule. I doubt anybody is dumb enough to actually enforce the rule. We should rely on social pressure to enforce the dress code.

 

There would be a stink,,,, the barn door has been open for too long with fewer and fewer people that are willing to enforce it. About the only people that complain are other B-Western/CC shooters that see a fellow competitor not dressing to the rules,,, and beating them.

I understand the original rules. Like someone mentioned, ya know it when you see it.

By the action/reaction of fellow shooters over the rules, it is not important to the mass of members.

 

Time to remove a rule that is no longer enforced.

 

But,,,, this game is still the property of the Wild Bunch.

 

Edit,,, Designer jeans is more a lady shooter issue than male shooters.

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Sorry, but I don't know what chemises means, and in my experience, there's a pretty wide variety of corsets. So I can't answer that.

 

If I were a MD, I wouldn't throw anyone out for dressing like those 2 ladies you posted, but if they were to come to me and say they wanted to shoot at the match next weekend and would this getup be ok. I'd probably ask them if they had some designer jeans they could put on instead.

 

 

 

And this would be one of the reasons they ought not wear it.

Wow...party pooper!

 

Phantom

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Which part is it not in compliance with? The only thing I can find is she's not wearing boots.

 

 

Allowing saloon girl outfits in BW was voted on a few years ago.

And was voted down.

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Predicting 9 pages - minimum ............

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dale_evans_d5338000h.jpg

If someone came out to our shoot looking like that I would tell her she has 3 years to stop dressing like that!!! :P

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Just for the record. Miss Evans outfit is not even close to complying with the rules for B-Western.

Which part is it not in compliance with? The only thing I can find is she's not wearing boots.

I'll be glad to answer your question in private if you wish.

This thread is not a discussion about B-Western costuming requirements.

It is about designer jeans.

I think if you're gonna make bold statements like that you should give an answer for all to see. If we need to start another thread we can.

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I think if you're gonna make bold statements like that you should give an answer for all to see. If we need to start another thread we can.

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Zak must have closely paid attention in those citizenship classes. To both paraphrase and quote that legal scholar, U.S. Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart, in Jacobellis v. Ohio (1964) [i can't define what is pornography.] "But I know it when I see it." Please don't be offended - it was the only analogy I could find on short notice.

 

Permissible attire should be defined as that which is acceptable to a majority of the participants in the sport. Common sense rules. Good luck putting that on paper and figuring out how to enforce it. There are people who always, and I mean always, dress 100% period correct shooting on the same posses with folks to whom correct clothing is unimportant and who really don't give a rat's behind who doesn't like it. If we all believed the same way, we would all dress the same way - but we don't.

 

Maybe Misty's announcement at this year's EOT awards ceremony was the way to handle it. "If you are not dressed cowboy, please do not come up and accept your award."

Ahhh.... .....I agree.

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make it easy,,, throw it out!

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Food for thought: Have y'all that think the rule should be removed you haven't seen 'em, considered that's because there's a rule prohibiting them?

 

The definition as I recall proffered by the Wild Bunch was "...jeans w/decorative or fancy stitching on the back pockets...", such as those pictured in my post on page 2 of this topic. This didn't include the "W" or double hump on Wranglers or Levis,

 

I think it worthwhile to note that I don't see any SASS Regulators posting in support of abolishing this rule.

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"think spandex, think spandex that is blue in color and has text similar to denim, has pockets where Levi/Wrangler pants are,,, but is very stretchy and fits the skin like a ,,,,,second skin. After a time, just remove the pockets and you got what you see women wearing on the street and in one of the pictures above."


I thought we were talking about designer jeans, not spandex.


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What I see and hear from so many otherwise intelligent people now days has me thinking everyone needs to consider stringent dress codes. Every so often these supposedly wal mart security photos pop up on line. And to think that I once thought that fokes like us were the REAL long thin line that tried to hold that slippery slope into muckdom. http://beartales.me/2013/01/14/the-latest-crop-of-walmartians/

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"think spandex, think spandex that is blue in color and has text similar to denim, has pockets where Levi/Wrangler pants are,,, but is very stretchy and fits the skin like a ,,,,,second skin. After a time, just remove the pockets and you got what you see women wearing on the street and in one of the pictures above."

I thought we were talking about designer jeans, not spandex.

Rather responding to your statement of who would want to wear skin tight jeans and pointing out that they make stretchy material that resembles Jeans that can be worn skin tight, and be comfortable,,, Women would be more inclined to wear such attire, as seen everyday on the streets of our cities. Thats all.
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What I see and hear from so many otherwise intelligent people now days has me thinking everyone needs to consider stringent dress codes. Every so often these supposedly wal mart security photos pop up on line. And to think that I once thought that fokes like us were the REAL long thin line that tried to hold that slippery slope into muckdom. http://beartales.me/2013/01/14/the-latest-crop-of-walmartians/

Not to get off topic but there's a WalMart that I go to and I have yet to see anyone there dressed like the photos you see on the internet! I'm beginning to think those Wal Mart photos are fake! Is my Wal Mart different??

 

Besides they have Faded Glory Jeans for 13.99 and they hold up as good as any jeans I've had! ;)

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I'm torn on this one. I don't want to see any further erosion of our costuming. Secondly when folks start throwing the element that our costuming requirements scare people away it minimizes the efforts that both men and women have put fourth to play by the rules for the last 30 years. Our clothing is one of THE things that seperates us from other shooting sports. And just like we are seeing happen within our own country small chips taken out of the foundation lead to that foundation crumbling. Flame me or call me silly but I think the costuming we require in this game is a important part of keeping us who we are.

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I'm torn on this one. I don't want to see any further erosion of our costuming. Secondly when folks start throwing the element that our costuming requirements scare people away it minimizes the efforts that both men and women have put fourth to play by the rules for the last 30 years. Our clothing is one of THE things that seperates us from other shooting sports. And just like we are seeing happen within our own country small chips taken out of the foundation lead to that foundation crumbling. Flame me or call me silly but I want to see it left alone.

Deuce, I agree with you mostly on this but basically, getting back to Zak's original question, how do we define designer jeans? Levi Strauss "designed" his jeans. Someone at Wrangler, Carhartt and Cinch designed theirs. You could call all of those designer jeans. I think the point of all of this is to nail down what is and what isn't designer jeans. And if the ROC committee needs help in hands on research looking at and checking the butts of some of those cowgirls, I'll take one for the team and help any way I can.....

Also, I don't think it's the costuming requirements that scare folks away. I think it's the draconian way some people try to apply those requirements.

And with all due respect, Deuce, I'll thank you and all of the rest of the committee for all of your work on the rules!

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I'm new to the game. The thing that attracted me is the authenticity. I would like to look as authentic as possible but cost prohibits this in the beginning. Maybe just look the other way on the rule. But I think folks should try to keep with the spirit of the game. My 2 cents.

 

Now I remember why I watched Roy Rogers when I was a kid!

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I'm torn on this one. I don't want to see any further erosion of our costuming. Secondly when folks start throwing the element that our costuming requirements scare people away it minimizes the efforts that both men and women have put fourth to play by the rules for the last 30 years. Our clothing is one of THE things that seperates us from other shooting sports. And just like we are seeing happen within our own country small chips taken out of the foundation lead to that foundation crumbling. Flame me or call me silly but I think the costuming we require in this game is a important part of keeping us who we are.

Participants may choose the style of costume they wish to wear, but all clothing must be typical of the late 19th century, a B - western movie, or Western television series. SASS puts a great deal of emphasis on costuming because it adds so much to the uniqueness of our game and helps create a festive, informal atmosphere that supports the friendly, fraternal feeling we encourage in our competitors.

All shooters must be in costume, and we encourage invited guests and family also to be costumed. Shooters must remain in costume at all match events: dinners, award ceremonies, dances, etcetera.

ALL clothing and equipment MUST be worn appropriately, how it was intended and how it would have been worn in the OLD WEST or as seen on B - Western movies and television.

 

This statement in the Handbook state, in a clear manner, what is expected of each and every shooter without regard to category or sex.

It allows the train engineer in his bib overalls, the shopkeeper, the saloon girl, the school teacher, the sheriff and the gunfighter to all dress the way they desire. It allows the appearance of characters such as Mongo from Blazing Saddles. Even though we don't allow baseball caps, I have seen them allowed if they were part of an 1890's baseball uniform.

It also precludes the wearing of shorts, flip flops, sweat pants, and most modern clothing.

 

"Designer jeans" were singled out because they come close to jeans worn in the movies.

"Shady Brady" is another term used in the rule book that should be addressed as many younger shooters have no idea what one is.

As soon as we start using labels such as "Designer Jeans" and "Shady Brady" then you start down the path of having to define what each of those items are as they mean different things to different people.

If you insist that Match directors adhere to the statement in Bold and Italics above then you have a clearer statement about what is expected of the participant. Jeans with rhinestones all over them, or with a waist that is ridiculously low on the hips or with "fancy" stitching is covered in the above. (And so is a straw hat with a bird stuck to the front of it).

If you want to add to the Page 3 statement that - All other types of clothing are specifically disallowed unless approved elsewhere in this handbook - I would certainly support that.

It won't eliminate the problem but it will give Match Directors a clearer and firmer ground to stand on when making a ruling.

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I'm dismayed.

 

"...jeans w/decorative or fancy stitching on the back pockets...", such as those pictured in my post on page 2 of this topic. This didn't include the "W" or double hump on Wranglers or Levis,

Just how hard is it to understand this definition. I've been working under this premise for close to 30 years. Yes, it's listed in my 1989 SASS Shooter's Handbook. I've asked folks to not come back until they get a pair of "proper" jeans, refusing to let them shoot at a local, monthly match... not hardly. But, at an annual, or such, it's my belief that's not an appropriate venue for a shooter's introduction to the game... Sure, I've done it, but it can make for a LOT of extra work, depending on that shooter's level of competence.

 

If you can't or especially if you won't make the call... you've just confirmed my definition of PC.

 

A of H, designer jeans were singled out because they didn't fit the historical or B-Western movie genre. And folks were using the excuse, "... well, these are my 'jeans', and you only said I had to wear jeans." And, "Shady Bradys" are more than a hat with a bird stuck on it... as many ladies' hats of the last couple of decades of the 19th century would fit in there.

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Why?

 

Flame me or call me silly but I think the costuming we require in this game is a important part of keeping us who we are.

 

 

 

What distinguishes us apart? SASS/CAS has been built upon fairly specific choices in firearms, a code of conduct, and a choice in apparel. If we have no standard, and no enforcement, let's just permit jeans/shorts and t-shirts along with sandals/tennis shoes and be done with. If we are worried about losing others to other shooting venues over what essentially boils down to personal taste, so be it. This is neither a good or bad thing. They are no more better or worse off. We're no better or worse off without the. Trap, IDPA, Steel Challenge, etc may be a better fit for others tastes and budgets. This isn't a popularity contest.

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Keep it and enforce it, and stop the wordsmithing trying to legitimize your personal want. The rules are there for a purpose. Any person with any degree of common sense knows the difference in standard Jeans and Designers. Anyone who doesn't, really shouldn't be allowed to touch a gun, because they are far too retarded for that to be allowed.

 

RBK

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Keep it and enforce it, and stop the wordsmithing trying to legitimize your personal want. The rules are there for a purpose. Any person with any degree of common sense knows the difference in standard Jeans and Designers. Anyone who doesn't, really shouldn't be allowed to touch a gun, because they are far too retarded for that to be allowed.

 

RBK

If it's so simple, RBK, define them. I am sure the ROC committee would like an easy to understand definition. Besides, they would like to know how retarded they are.....

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We're also not NCOWS, who insists on historically correct clothing, so compare the success of SASS that has "relaxed" costume requirements and NCOWS! No comparison right? Hmmm…….think about it!!! ;)

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We're also not NCOWS, who insists on historically correct clothing, so compare the success of SASS that has "relaxed" costume requirements and NCOWS! No comparison right? Hmmm…….think about it!!! ;)

+10000000

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