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Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 last won the day on April 23 2018
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 had the most liked content!
About Garrison Joe, SASS #60708
- Birthday November 30
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SASS #
60708 LIFE
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SASS Affiliated Club
Buffalo Range Riders, Rio Grande Renegades
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Gender
Male
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Location
Albuquerque NM
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Interests
shooting, hiking, hunting, fishing, building, gun smithing, wood working. SASS Regulator. NSCA super veteran.
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WTC: KD down by pistol fire
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 replied to Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L's topic in SASS Wire
Shotgun clean. For whatever reason that a shotgun is down before the shotgun string is begun, the standard response is to "shoot where it was." A pistol error (miss) does not make for any sort of shotgun error - they are separate strings. good luck, GJ -
Sarco double barrel shotguns
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 replied to Muley Gil SASS # 57795's topic in SASS Wire
Hmmm, shame on Sarco. They have gone to non-standard HTML extensions on their web pages. Most pages will open partially in Firefox browser (latest version) but hang up down-loading a gallery of several pictures, never to complete. In Chrome browser, it works. That's like refusing to serve a customer because they are not wearing the latest fashions of clothes in a style that matches shop owner's tastes. Their web contractor should know better than to use non-standard extensions. Also, Sarco has a long reputation for ranking conditions of firearms better than NRA standards for guns. For example, take the Model 12 receiver WGD777 item number. A deeply pitted rust bucket with no original finish noted. This is ranked as Good condition. NRA says this about a modern gun if it is to meet NRA GOOD: In safe working condition, minor wear on working surfaces, no broken parts, no corrosion or pitting that will interfere with proper functioning. Hmmm, buyer beware. GJ -
To me, it looks like travel stopped about 15 thousandths short of the crimp. Commercial RNFP ammo rarely has a "proud crimp", especially 3 different brands. good luck, GJ
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Then I pay only with credit card. GJ
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Good loaded primers I hope to save
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 replied to Doc Moses's topic in SASS Wire
It is your personal decision. Mine was to use them for any loading, including EOT ammo. Hasn't failed me yet. The only ones I discard are Military crimped primers that I have to remove with a hammer and punch made by Lee. About my only Lee piece of equipment. GJ -
If you are adventurous enough to learn how to disassemble the gun, then do so far enough to get the lever, links, carrier and lifter arm out. Then, to make sure channel in the carrier is large enough to pass the bolt AND a commercial round, try passing both through from back to front to simulate the travel of bolt and round as they are chambered. Watch for any tight spots, burrs, etc. Correct if necessary. Again, working with someone experienced will help ensure interpret the fit well and don't take off metal that doesn't need to be removed. Then reassemble and test. good luck, GJ
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Count the number of grooves by carefully looking at the muzzle under good lighting. 12, sixteen or more grooves - that's Microgroove. Five or six grooves - Ballard rifling. Your barrel would have Microgroove marked on it if it had it, as mentioned above. Here's an article by Glen Fryxell (a very wise gun guy) on Marlin Microgroove barrels, see item 10 in this post: https://www.marlinowners.com/threads/why-microgroove.216057/ good luck, GJ
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This stuff is kinda deep, but Pioneer Gunworks short stroke installation instructions are very informative about the operation of the lever, lifter and carrier. Carrier height is determined mainly by the lifter arm geometry - its shape (amount of bend). If you need a little bit higher lift for the carrier, and the carrier does not impede the bolt travel, you can very carefully bend the lifter arm to raise the carrier to a slightly higher elevation. Take a look at how Pioneer Gun Works describes and shows pictures in their fitting instructions for lifter arm installation (this is for their short stroke kit, but the general geometry is very similar to factory parts). On their technical info page, https://www.pioneergunworks.com/pages/installation-instructions-technical-info look at the Short Stroke Kit Installation or the video: P.G.W. Short Stroke Kit Installation Video. However, this (bending the lifter arm) would be a very tricky adjustment that a smith who has been solving similar problems needs to look at. And any adjustment also needs to make sure you do not cause the TIMING of when the carrier rises and falls, and when the bolt needs to travel forward and back during the lever operation cycle, to cause the bolt to hit the carrier or bend the cartridge support tab on the bolt! I think talking this over with your gunsmith/Cowboy shooter would be the next best step. It will be hard to give you instruction for a complex fix that (as you can tell from lack of solid responses) most folks have never done. Stoeger is the importer. They will have a gunsmith back in MD that they probably have on retainer to do warranty repair. The gun will probably NOT go back to Uberti in Italy. The gun is unlikely to be straight-up replaced without Stoeger's guy taking a close look. Several of our good cowboy smiths would be able to do this work, but you really have not EXACTLY found out what will have to be tuned to make this run well, even if you think you have. So, decide if you want to handle this locally, handle it with the help of a good gunsmith (like Jim Bowie in Yuma AZ), or try to get warranty assistance from Stoeger (that will take a long time and can be an exercise in arguments traded and fingers pointed). good luck, GJ
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Good loaded primers I hope to save
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 replied to Doc Moses's topic in SASS Wire
Yes, pretty easy to punch out a live primer from either brass cartridges or shotshells. I've done probably thousands over 50 years of loading ammo, only a few broke apart (losing compound), none yet have exploded. Use eye and ear protection if you are worried. Use your normal depriming methods, with light pressure. They come out easier than they seat. good luck, GJ -
Yeah, they reworked a page name. (Silly thing to do when lots of folks have it bookmarked) I thought I captured and shared that new URL/name, so here's the new URL: https://www.pioneergunworks.com/pages/installation-instructions-technical-info GJ
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IF USING LIVE AMMO, DO THIS WORK IN A SAFE AREA, KEEPING FINGER OFF TRIGGER AND WORKING GENTLY AND WITH MUZZLE IN A SAFE DIRECTION AT ALL TIMES. You said earlier that the round never really FAILS to go in the chamber, if you jiggle things around. So, jiggle things around like you have done and get the round into chamber, close action and the extractor hook catches the rim. Then opening the lever will pull the round out and the carrier will rise to eject the round out the top of action. If action really "sticks/jams" with round part of way into chamber and the extractor has not hooked the rim, then with a long rod (3/8" wooden dowel works) gently push on the tip of the bullet that is now within the chamber until it comes back into the carrier. Then gently open the lever. Lever goes all the way open with the round falling back inside the carrier. Push down on carrier and move lever slightly back, carrier should drop to bottom of shaft, open the loading gate and jiggle the round out through the loading gate. This really is not normal behavior for a well functioning gun. An experienced '73 shooter watching you would be real advisable, to spot what is causing the temporary "jam". Know someone at your local club? Does that make sense to you? Let us know if you have questions about this. GJ
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Art's Gun Shop in Missouri has done lots of work on high end Browning shotguns over the years - they might just have some spares. https://artsgunshop.com/ Also, the Browning factory service center in Arnold MO. Browning Parts 3005 Arnold-Tenbrook Road Arnold, Missouri 63010-4728 800-322-4626 x3 Or try the 6 "obsolete parts" dealers that Browning recommends, 2 of which are pretty obvious, : https://www.browning.com/support/parts-service/obsolete-firearm-parts-service.html With Browning themselves calling out Midwest Gunworks and Western Gun Part Limited in Edmonton Alberta for BSS "obsolete" parts If all else fails, I'll bet a restoration house can probably make new parts, such as Run-N-Iron in Bertrand NE http://www.runniron.com/contact/index.html good luck Johnny! GJ
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That round in the carrier at an angle (first of your latest pics) is the tell-tale sign of needing the loading gate mortise beveled! If that is what happens with 6 rounds in the mag tube, when you load 10 (the usual load for the rifle), the crooked round jam will be even worse - jammed tighter (due to pressure from the tighter compression that 10 rounds in the mag tube cause) because the round is harder to "jiggle back" straight. Look seriously at the frame loading gate window bevel! All your ammo has round nose flat point slugs. The ammo is NOT what is causing a failure to feed. Folks were trying to point out the well-known problems of trying to get semi-wadcutter ammo to feed in most lever guns. Even if t hey called it a collared round. BUT that is not your problem since you are using RNFP ammo. Do all three of the ammo types show some resistance when you try to chamber them? I would not put too much importance on finding that snap caps feed well, because they may be slightly smaller diameter than the 0.480" nominal diameter of the .45 Colt cartridge. Let's try an experiment with just loading one round. Take a black sharpie and mark all the slug and case right down to the rim. Put that round in the loading gate and ease the lever through a cycle. If the round hangs up, stop and extract the round with easy motion. Look for where there are scratches showing binding on the round as it was trying to feed. Take a few pics of any rubbed off marking. You have a rather unusual problem. The 73 rifle feeds the round almost straight in. It would take the carrier being quite a bit out of position to make the feeding (forward travel of the bolt) bind up. good luck, GJ
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First - make sure you do not have a bullet stuck in the chamber or throat of the gun! This stops a round from fully chambering just like your pic shows. Run a cleaning rod down from the muzzle until it comes out into the carrier shaft. If you can't you have a slug stuck from either a squib round or a bullet that caught in the chamber and pulled itself out of the case - that would have spilled powder around the action, too! Second, take a real close look at the tab at the front of the bolt face, lower edge of it. This tab should stick straight forward. If it is bent downward, it can catch in the groove of the cartridge channel in the carrier (lifter) block. A bent cartridge support tab needs replacement or repair. A gunsmith job, for a first time cowboy shooter. Lifter arm is raising the carrier about the right height, now that you gave us a side view. This problem could well be that the loading gate mortise was not beveled enough - it has been on many Uberti guns over the years. This problem would make the first round balky to cycle up from magazine to chamber. (But, that problem usually locks the gun up as you lever the action open, then start to close the action. You are showing you can get the action about 2/3 closed! So this may not be your problem) A crooked round in the carrier usually requires jiggling the lever or slapping the gun to straighten out the round in the carrier block. And could even affect the second round being crooked enough in the carrier channel to prevent the first one going into the chamber. Load magazine with ten rounds in a safe place and manner. Dummy rounds if you have them. Look down in the opening in the carrier block to see if the first round sits angled (crooked) instead of straight forward. Crooked means a poorly machined loading gate mortise. Although lots of folks with experience can fix this with these instructions: http://www.pioneergunworks.com/technical-info/ then go to the "Frame Modification for 1866/73" instruction link. It can be well above the level of a person who has never taken apart a 73 rifle, though! If this is the problem, a workaround to let you shoot the gun would be to carry a stick (about pencil size) that you can push the FIRST round (last round loaded) straight by putting the end of the stick through the loading date (like you were trying to "load the stick" into the magazine). Once the cartridge is straight, the action will let you cycle it fully. If the SECOND round also sits crooked, the problem is pretty severe, but the firing of the gun often provides enough vibration (jiggle) that the second and remaining rounds will cycle OK. Having a cowboy gunsmith fix this will be simple. Other gunsmiths won't even understand what you want them to do. Beware! Ask around the club where you are located for a local gunsmith who is "cowboy capable". Sorry if no one informed you that almost all Cowboy guns from any factory will not have enough attention fitting the parts to run well, smoothly and quickly right out of the box. These designs took hours of fitting at the factory back when they were originally made. They still need individual parts fitting and smoothing, even if now they are made on CNC and robotic controlled machinery. good luck, GJ