Chicken George* Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 7 minutes ago, Griff said: Nope, I left no words out. But, I'll admit a fast '97 shooter woulda made it a race. You just haven't met any 97 shooters that have heavily practiced stoking on the clock because it has never been allowed. If they let you stoke them, then they should also allow speed loaders (made from materials available at the time). That would be a lot of fun to watch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yul Lose Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 4 minutes ago, Chicken George* said: You just haven't met any 97 shooters that have heavily practiced stoking on the clock because it has never been allowed. If they let you stoke them, then they should also allow speed loaders (made from materials available at the time). That would be a lot of fun to watch! I edited my OP to also allow SxS shotguns to use ejectors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 53 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said: I’m curious what changes in shotgun belts this would prompt. Using a three gun technique four shells could be loaded very quickly if the belt presented them the correct way. I could see double shooters getting left in the dust if the ‘97 shooter had the appropriate rig. John Wick would be dead loading up his fancy auto if he's facing a fast SxS shooter. I think it would take a dandy of a fast loader to get the 97 loaded up before a good SxS shooter gets off their shots. Just my opinion. BUT..... why preload or stoke the 97? its still faster than the SxS when loading on the clock. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 1 hour ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said: John Wick would be dead loading up his fancy auto if he's facing a fast SxS shooter. I think it would take a dandy of a fast loader to get the 97 loaded up before a good SxS shooter gets off their shots. Just my opinion. BUT..... why preload or stoke the 97? its still faster than the SxS when loading on the clock. ..........Widder With practice and the right rig I suspect a top shooter could load 4 in a ‘97 in under two seconds. Me, I’ll stick to my doubles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken George* Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 1 hour ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said: I think it would take a dandy of a fast loader to get the 97 loaded up before a good SxS shooter gets off their shots. Just my opinion. 17 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said: With practice and the right rig I suspect a top shooter could load 4 in a ‘97 in under two seconds. Me, I’ll stick to my doubles. It depends how much they allow. A good shooter can empty his speed loader in a shotgun with a chute in under 1.5 seconds (time between shots). A speed loader can hold 4, 6 or 8 shells. I'm mostly teasing about a 97 shooter being faster stoking but I bet someone could figure it out. I'd love to see it if they could! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yul Lose Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 Just now, Chicken George* said: It depends how much they allow. A good shooter can empty his speed loader in a shotgun with a chute in under 1.5 seconds. A speed loader can hold 4, 6 or 8 shells. I'm mostly teasing about a 97 shooter being faster stoking but I bet someone could figure it out. I'd love to see it if they could! There is a pard out here named Callahan that can do it. His 97 loading is a blurr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idaho Gunslinger Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 2 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: AWESOME!!!!! more categories... Phantom I don't totally understand why people can't shoot 22 in normal categories nowadays (other than it would complicate the current power factor rules). As fast as the fast guys are shooting I doubt they would be any faster switching to 22. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 2 hours ago, Idaho Gunslinger said: I don't totally understand why people can't shoot 22 in normal categories nowadays (other than it would complicate the current power factor rules). As fast as the fast guys are shooting I doubt they would be any faster switching to 22. Reeeeeally simple - you can't hear hits very well and reactive targets don't go down... Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 5 hours ago, Escopeta Jake said: More shooters !!!!! oh sure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 4 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said: BUT..... why preload or stoke the 97? its still faster than the SxS when loading on the clock. ..........Widder It's fun to just crank'em off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Duncan Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 7 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said: I would cut the number of categories in half. Why? Because we give out participation awards. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cholla Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: Reeeeeally simple - you can't hear hits very well and reactive targets don't go down... Phantom It’s hard enough to hear .36 cap and ball hit the steel. I hate to spot for a .22 shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kloehr Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 Open a new official Steampunk costume division based on Wild Wild West. SOG penalty against any member who discourages any weirdo who shows up to compete in this new Steampunk division. Yes, they will be weirdos. But they will be young and this sport will not survive without new blood. All other rules remain the same except for Steampunk costuming allowance (gears hot-glued to guns, whatever... Let the new blood decide the costuming details). OK, I did not last even one minute, did I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artemus Von Schutze Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 Outside of plain ol' Duelist and Gunfighter categories, any category that demands firing a pistol with one hand, be allowed duelist or gunfighter. This would mean duelist or gunfighter style in Classic, B Western, Frontiersman, etc. In addition, this should collapse the two single hand FC categories into one so it's just FC and FC Traditional (name pending). If I still have time on my 5 minute clock, Plainsman as a main match category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idaho Gunslinger Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 19 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: Reeeeeally simple - you can't hear hits very well and reactive targets don't go down... Phantom Maybe it's because we have berms but I can't tell a difference between the 22's and anything else others are shooting when spotting. I've yet to shoot a match with reactive targets that weren't for shotgun so that makes sense. How common are reactive targets in matches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 interesting , some of these i agree with , some not so much , but its the ones ive never even thought of that kept me reading this thread , didnt realize some were even issues , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Idaho Gunslinger said: I've yet to shoot a match with reactive targets that were for shotgun so that makes sense. How common are reactive targets in matches? Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dilli GaHoot Galoot Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Idaho Gunslinger said: I've yet to shoot a match with reactive targets that were for shotgun What are 'non reactive' shotgun targets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevada Gambler, SASS #10225 Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 Helllo, empty on carrier, glady to see your back on the wire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 I'm with Widder on this one; EMPTY (hull or brass) on the carrier... no call. (Anything) in the chamber, still a penalty. Live round on the carrier, penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Outlaw, SASS 71385 Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 Cutting down categories, for Bigger matches maybe there has to be at least 3 shooters in your category or pick another category.. AO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Equanimous Phil Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 20 hours ago, Dantankerous said: Classic Cowboy should be shot with black powder. While I kind of love that suggestion the part of me that has to clean my firearms hates it... (No, I do not clean after every match) SASS King Equanimous Phil would demand a higher PF for Classic Cowboy! Requesting .40 caliber minimum bullet while leaving PF at 60 still doesn't make any sense to me. Let's say double PF to 120 (which would still be considerably below WBAS' 150). Wouldn't apply to BP shooters, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cholla Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 8 hours ago, Idaho Gunslinger said: Maybe it's because we have berms but I can't tell a difference between the 22's and anything else others are shooting when spotting. I've yet to shoot a match with reactive targets that were for shotgun so that makes sense. How common are reactive targets in matches? Half our shotgun targets are reactive. And we have a progressive plate rack for rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHOOTIN FOX Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 9 hours ago, Artemus Von Schutze said: Outside of plain ol' Duelist and Gunfighter categories, any category that demands firing a pistol with one hand, be allowed duelist or gunfighter. This would mean duelist or gunfighter style in Classic, B Western, Frontiersman, etc. In addition, this should collapse the two single hand FC categories into one so it's just FC and FC Traditional (name pending). If I still have time on my 5 minute clock, Plainsman as a main match category. You can already shoot gunfighter in B western. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rancho Roy Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 Only ONE change!!! Eliminate the stupid rule of a stage DQ if you have a hammer back on your rifle "AND YOU LET GO OF IT!"....How much safer can a rifle be than on a table with no one touching it! All state matches should have one "Reference" stage set up identical at each state shoot. A good way to see your progress. Empty on the carrier of a rifle...No Call Fired shells left in an open SxS or the ejection port of a 87-97... No Call WAY too many categories.....But don't ask me what ones to get rid of! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 10 hours ago, Idaho Gunslinger said: Maybe it's because we have berms but I can't tell a difference between the 22's and anything else others are shooting when spotting. I've yet to shoot a match with reactive targets that were for shotgun so that makes sense. How common are reactive targets in matches? Please trust me when I say that shooting 22's leads to LOTS of spotting mistakes. Reactive targets are somewhat common... Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 2 hours ago, Arcadia Outlaw, SASS 71385 said: Cutting down categories, for Bigger matches maybe there has to be at least 3 shooters in your category or pick another category.. AO That's kinda how it is now. Gotta have a certain amount in a category. This year at Land Run for instance I was moved down to FC because FC Senior had less than 10...but the Club can always do whatever they want. Phantom 9 hours ago, VinnieBoomBah said: What are 'non reactive' shotgun targets? Things that don't react...many clubs have them. Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston CAS Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 I'd lose the SDQ for having rifle hammer back on an empty chamber when walking from loading table to firing line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, Houston CAS said: I'd lose the SDQ for having rifle hammer back on an empty chamber when walking from loading table to firing line. That's already ok, so long as you don't let go of it. Aim at the berm and pull the trigger by RO command to prove empty chamber. IIRC! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyliefoxEsquire Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 Look at all the suggestions for a TG meeting. Here is a summary Neon followers Hammer back Empty on carrier Reduce categories (several suggestions on which ones) Remove MSV Stoke 98 &87 Allow adjustable sights Allow other pump shotguns Define Belly button location Enforce footwear Redo 170 rule SOG for questioning misses Shoot and move Multiple "P's" per stage allow 22LR Allow SxS ejectors Create Steampunk costume category Condense categories using one hand shooting Increase Classis Cowboy power factor Now what happens????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 Probably a few more pages... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eliphalet R. Moderator Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 5 hours ago, Houston CAS said: I'd lose the SDQ for having rifle hammer back on an empty chamber when walking from loading table to firing line. Speaking only about what you wrote, that is a no call if there's no round in the chamber. If there is a round in the chamber, then an SDQ is warranted for unsafe gun handling, or moving with a cocked, loaded gun. The same as any other time during the stage. Again, this is simply addressing your statement. After you let go of the cocked gun and stage it, that's another matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
July Smith Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 If I was king of SASS... Increase and enforce a minimum power factor of 100. (Exceptions for senior+ age based categories and 22lr categories) Allow for movement while shooting. Allow for shotguns to be staged with two shells loaded. 87/97s can be loaded at the loading table and staged with actions closed and hammers down on an empty chamber, SxS can be loaded before the timer goes off and staged opened. Stoking on the clock is allowed by default. Reduce the categories by doing the following unpopular things. Combine the genders. Combine the gunfighter and duelist categories. All black powder categories will have the classic rule about calibers starting with a 4. Some form of minimum holster retention. Eye tests for spotters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
July Smith Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 14 hours ago, John Kloehr said: Open a new official Steampunk costume division based on Wild Wild West. SOG penalty against any member who discourages any weirdo who shows up to compete in this new Steampunk division. Yes, they will be weirdos. But they will be young and this sport will not survive without new blood. All other rules remain the same except for Steampunk costuming allowance (gears hot-glued to guns, whatever... Let the new blood decide the costuming details). OK, I did not last even one minute, did I? There doesn't need to be an official steampunk category, costume however you want and shoot in your choice of category. Simply allowing for external modification of the firearms (so long as said mod doesn't effect the function or safety of the firearm) is the only rule that would have to be changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StirrupTrouble Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 Eliminate 90+% of the categories. It has gotten to the point, especially as overall numbers shrink where other than top overall, the awards are basically meaningless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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