For 5 minutes - YOU are King/ Queen of SASS

[Tennessee williams]

  My 5 minutes of kingliness and single decree would be to put myself in power over you other peons until I decide to step down. This would afford me total power to make as many changes as I like. I would have positions for some of you to fill. Widder would obviously be the Court Jester. I'll leave the others up to your imagination. 

   I would have any TO tarred and feathered who refuses to read the stage instructions verbatim.

   The definition of "stage" and "firing line" will be reversed so they more closely resemble the rest of the English speaking worlds' definition. Currently the definition of the "firing line" includes both the loading table and unloading table. Whoever heard of a firing line you couldn't fire from? "Stage" is from the beep until the last shot fired. Surely I can't be the only one who thinks these are reversed?! No Cadillacs for anyone who is wrong and disagrees.

  The derogatory use of the word gamer would be outlawed. I would also censure anyone who tries to censor anyone else.

  I will finally and forever end the "game vs sport" debate. It is both. For some, it's a game IJAFG (Its just a fun game). For others it's a sport IMSOC (It's my sport of choice). 

 

You are welcome.

   

[Fretless]

1 hour ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

Most" targets are at a given level - say waist to head height compated to an average shooter

Do folks where you play this game not shoot from platforms, or other structures, that result in a downward angle to the targets? 

This is your thread.  Read into my suggestion as you see fit.  When I first posted that idea I was offering a compromise to the idea that we should use the SASS recommended distances.  

I'm frankly surprised at the pushback.  10' is quite close.  Why would you want the targets any closer than that?   If a 6 foot tall person leaned forward as many shooters do, and extended their arms, their pistol would be like 2 yards from the target.  That's barely over the length of the average bathtub.

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

47 minutes ago, Fretless said:

I'm frankly surprised at the pushback.  10' is quite close.  Why would you want the targets any closer than that?  

 

I responded to your comment not to say whether you are right or wrong on distance (it's your OPINION - no right or wrong to it) - but to point out the false equivalency of saying that a aimed round striking a target at 10ft and an unaimed/ uncontrolled round striking the ground at 10ft are the same thing.

 

I have no pushback on your suggestion to install standards regarding distance - the keys to the kingdom were handed over for that exact purpose; to elicit peoples opinions on what they feel is a simple to implement, singular (lot of folks missed that simple to implement part ) idea.

 

I agree with some, disagree with others.

But whether I heed or discard input; it is always educational to hear.

 

Lastly - why would "I" want targets closer than that?

Because "I" still (regularly) find new and creative ways to miss targets at 10ft.  

 

Hope to shoot with you someday.

[Jackalope]

7 hours ago, Tennessee williams said:

   I would have any TO tarred and feathered who refuses to read the stage instructions verbatim.

 

I don't know if this would be my first decree, but it would be in the top ten for certain.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

10 minutes ago, Jackalope said:

 

I don't know if this would be my first decree, but it would be in the top ten for certain.

 

Dang Jackalope..... you get up as early as I do.

Good Morning.

 

..........Widder

 

[Captain Bill Burt]

7 hours ago, Fretless said:

Do folks where you play this game not shoot from platforms, or other structures, that result in a downward angle to the targets? 

This is your thread.  Read into my suggestion as you see fit.  When I first posted that idea I was offering a compromise to the idea that we should use the SASS recommended distances.  

I'm frankly surprised at the pushback.  10' is quite close.  Why would you want the targets any closer than that?   If a 6 foot tall person leaned forward as many shooters do, and extended their arms, their pistol would be like 2 yards from the target.  That's barely over the length of the average bathtub.

I’m in agreement with Creeker on this. I don’t believe the rule about rounds hitting the dirt is about minimum safe distances but rather about aimed vs unaimed and what angle the gun is at when it’s cocked. 

[Jackalope]

25 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

 

Dang Jackalope..... you get up as early as I do.

Good Morning.

 

..........Widder

 

 

Hey, Widder!

 

Just so you know, jackalopes never sleep.

 

   

[Fretless]

1 hour ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

I’m in agreement with Creeker on this. I don’t believe the rule about rounds hitting the dirt is about minimum safe distances but rather about aimed vs unaimed and what angle the gun is at when it’s cocked. 

The notion of an aimed vs unaimed shot holds true largely BECAUSE there are no targets in that path.  You and Creeker are making my point for me.  As long as the targets are at 10' or more the range officers can confidently distinguish between a miss and an unaimed shot.  (No peanut gallery discussions).  Raise the shooter up on a platform and those lines get closer together.

Put a short shooter behind a ledge or table and close targets start to disappear.  

 

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

2 hours ago, Jackalope said:

 

I don't know if this would be my first decree, but it would be in the top ten for certain.

I'd be tarred and feathered then...

 

For example, one club around here keeps writing in things like "make rifle safe".  Why say this? Do people actually need to be told to not make their rifle unsafe? Then there's the repeating of instructions. For example the Stage may call out a Pistol sequence and then when they get to the Rifle sequence the instructions will say "engage using Pistol instructions"...and then go into repeating what those instructions are...very wordy!

 

So get yer Tar and Feathers ready 

 

Phantom

[Jackalope]

I get your point.  Stage writers adding bogus, unneeded instructions is one thing.  When whoever reads the scenario adds in their two cents worth of bogus (and often incorrect) extra words or opinions, that's the foul that needs the tar and feathers.

 

Also, sometimes stage writers need to be politely informed how to effectively author a scenario.  Some will take advice, some just won't.

 

YMMV.

[Assassin]

10 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

I'd be tarred and feathered then...

 

For example, one club around here keeps writing in things like "make rifle safe".  Why say this? Do people actually need to be told to not make their rifle unsafe? Then there's the repeating of instructions. For example the Stage may call out a Pistol sequence and then when they get to the Rifle sequence the instructions will say "engage using Pistol instructions"...and then go into repeating what those instructions are...very wordy!

 

So get yer Tar and Feathers ready 

 

Phantom

The more I read the more I can delete.

I don't write as many stages since I've stepped down from President and Match Director. Much of the wasted verbiage can be defined in the stage conventions. Pistols holstered, unless otherwise stated in stage description. From Position 1,2,3,4,5, etc at least one foot behind the.plane of table/prop. Kicking. Distance, approximately 3 feet.

 

You can bet this will be in this year's Hell On Wheels shoot book. 

 

There will be no mention of Stand And Deliver, that sh*t don't fly around here!

[Muggins]

Here we go... seven pages and no one mentioned the "No alibi/reshoot/restart" rule; I'll say it.  

 

Eliminate the rule that permits re-shoots for folks that haven't fired a round down range.

 

Didn't get a clean pull of shotgun shells from the belt and straight into the chamber?  Bummer.  Keep going.  This is a sport.  We can't expect to be 100% flawless 100% of the time.  We have multiple stages to average our errors (or lack thereof for you experienced folks).  Make it a true stage time (with no restarts) for whether we fumble our shells (or draw from leather) once a competitor handles a firearm.  Yes, if you start with a firearm in your hand, and state the starting line correctly, after that timer beeps, no restarts.

 

Welp, looks like my time is up, I'm no longer king of SASS!!

 

[Hoss]

8 minutes ago, Muggins said:

Here we go... seven pages and no one mentioned the "No alibi/reshoot/restart" rule; I'll say it.  

 

Eliminate the rule that permits re-shoots for folks that haven't fired a round down range.

 

Didn't get a clean pull of shotgun shells from the belt and straight into the chamber?  Bummer.  Keep going.  This is a sport.  We can't expect to be 100% flawless 100% of the time.  We have multiple stages to average our errors (or lack thereof for you experienced folks).  Make it a true stage time (with no restarts) for whether we fumble our shells (or draw from leather) once a competitor handles a firearm.  Yes, if you start with a firearm in your hand, and state the starting line correctly, after that timer beeps, no restarts.

 

Welp, looks like my time is up, I'm no longer king of SASS!!

 

Good point! If you wuz in a real gunfight and had a bobble there would be no restart. (You’d be dead!) 

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

That's what W3G did. You say you're ready...you're ready.

 

But...yeah but...CAS tries to be a more...forgiving game.

 

Phantom

[Widder, SASS #59054]

1 hour ago, Muggins said:

Here we go... seven pages and no one mentioned the "No alibi/reshoot/restart" rule; I'll say it.  

 

Eliminate the rule that permits re-shoots for folks that haven't fired a round down range.

 

 

 

 

If.a round has not gone down range, there is no "re-shoots".

Its a 'Re-start'.

 

Anyhow, too many factors to consider for eliminating Restarts:

1. often, the shooter doesn't hear the beep.

2. if the shooter gets distracted at the moment of the beep,

restart considerations should be allowed.

3. shooter picks up long gun and suddenly gets something

in the eye.

4. TO bumps the shooters hat with timer.  But TO doesn't 

know he bumped the hat because the timer aint got any

feeling.

5.  and lastly, one of my pep peeves, the TO breaks their

start rhythm and when they say..... "Stand By", it sounds like

"Stand ByEEEP".    No pause given.

 

Lightin up fellers.   We aint soldiers in boot camp.   As Creeker

respectfully stated......... we are in the entertainment business.

 

..........Widder

 

 

[Assassin]

32 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

 

If.a round has not gone down range, there is no "re-shoots".

Its a 'Re-start'.

 

Anyhow, too many factors to consider for eliminating Restarts:

1. often, the shooter doesn't hear the beep.

2. if the shooter gets distracted at the moment of the beep,

restart considerations should be allowed.

3. shooter picks up long gun and suddenly gets something

in the eye.

4. TO bumps the shooters hat with timer.  But TO doesn't 

know he bumped the hat because the timer aint got any

feeling.

5.  and lastly, one of my pep peeves, the TO breaks their

start rhythm and when they say..... "Stand By", it sounds like

"Stand ByEEEP".    No pause given.

 

Lightin up fellers.   We aint soldiers in boot camp.   As Creeker

respectfully stated......... we are in the entertainment business.

 

..........Widder

 

 

Yeah, the Stand Beep really irks me.

Or, when they distract me by thrusting the timer towards my head and I think I'm going to get punched. 

[The Rainmaker, SASS #11631]

5 hours ago, Assassin said:

Yeah, the Stand Beep really irks me.

Or, when they distract me by thrusting the timer towards my head and I think I'm going to get punched. 

Haha, I always wonder why people think they have to "punch" the timer at you when they press the button. Funny

The shooter shouldn't even be able to see the timer (device). Very distracting.

[Hoss]

5 hours ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

Haha, I always wonder why people think they have to "punch" the timer at you when they press the button. Funny

The shooter shouldn't even be able to see the timer (device). Very distracting.

Ah the timer….

I know a shooter that will tell me I’m too close to his ear with timer. Or too far. Or too quick with beep or too slow. Or beep is too loud. Or not loud enough. Or..or.. or..in short, I try to avoid timing him whenever I can. 
I don’t mind, and in fact welcome, constructive criticism on my TOing. But for whatever reason this shooter always finds a fault with my TOing 

[JackSlade]

Allow fanning.

[Cypress Sun]

1 hour ago, Hoss said:

Ah the timer….

I know a shooter that will tell me I’m too close to his ear with timer. Or too far. Or too quick with beep or too slow. Or beep is too loud. Or not loud enough. Or..or.. or..in short, I try to avoid timing him whenever I can. 
I don’t mind, and in fact welcome, constructive criticism on my TOing. But for whatever reason this shooter always finds a fault with my TOing 

 

Simple solution...don't time him.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

1 hour ago, JackSlade said:

Allow fanning.

Oh hell no!!!!!!

 

Unless...we went to Wax bullets...

 

[Hoss]

9 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said:

 

Simple solution...don't time him.

I try to avoid, but still happens occasionally 

[Widder, SASS #59054]

17 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Oh hell no!!!!!!

 

Unless...we went to Wax bullets...

 

 

Ah, come on Phantom.   What better way for you to spend

your Saturday morning being a witness to someone blowing

their toe or foot off trying to show everyone how much fun

fanning can be with LIVE AMMO..... 

 

Oh yea, and don't forget about all the MDQ's for 'round over the

berm'.

 

..........Widder

 

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

2 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

 

Ah, come on Phantom.   What better way for you to spend

your Saturday morning being a witness to someone blowing

their toe or foot off trying to show everyone how much fun

fanning can be with LIVE AMMO..... 

 

Oh yea, and don't forget about all the MDQ's for 'round over the

berm'.

 

..........Widder

 

Oh don't get me wrong. There are quite a few folks that I would actually encourage to Fan their revolvers...with hollow point bullets...

 

Phantom

[Cotton Eye Joe]

I'd encourage a "rifleman stage" or something, where for one stage, specifically the rifle targets are further back. Varying distances of more like 20-50 yards. Dependent on how deep the shooting bays are. 

 

I know spitting distance is the CAS way, so that's why I'd only do it for one stage per match. 

[Diamond Jake]

On 10/25/2023 at 10:47 PM, Tennessee williams said:

  ...I would have any TO tarred and feathered who refuses to read the stage instructions verbatim...

 

   

 

This year I was spotting for a warm up match at Land Run.  I was the only spotter that called a P.  The TO says "What was the P?"  I explained that he double tapped the first square target, triple tapped the next, then went back and single tapped the first.  The instructions clearly stated "Triple Tap the three squares then single tap the circle."

 

The TO agreed that the shooter did this, but "If you read the stage instructions, it's clear that they meant this to be a round count.  No P."

 

Glad it was only a warm up.

[Texas Jack Black]

On 10/26/2023 at 8:53 AM, Fretless said:

The notion of an aimed vs unaimed shot holds true largely BECAUSE there are no targets in that path.  You and Creeker are making my point for me.  As long as the targets are at 10' or more the range officers can confidently distinguish between a miss and an unaimed shot.  (No peanut gallery discussions).  Raise the shooter up on a platform and those lines get closer together.

Put a short shooter behind a ledge or table and close targets start to disappear.  

 

 I would say follow the MANUFACTURERS  specs on safe distances of their targets Or the club could be telling a Judge why they put the steel to close.  If someone is hurt. 

 

 Best Wishes

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

28 minutes ago, Texas Jack Black said:

 I would say follow the MANUFACTURERS  specs on safe distances of their targets Or the club could be telling a Judge why they put the steel to close.  If someone is hurt. 

 

 Best Wishes

Oh please do tell us what the MANUFACTURERS specs are. You can cut and paste right here 

 

Phantom

[Eyesa Horg]

Would that include a sheet of steel, bought and cut into smaller pieces. Can't imagine a steel yard caring one ioda what you do with it.

[Texas Jack Black]

56 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said:

Would that include a sheet of steel, bought and cut into smaller pieces. Can't imagine a steel yard caring one ioda what you do with it.

 No  The manufacturers of steel targets. they come with specs  for distances.

 

Best wishes

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

Man, it is sure lucky that I specified no decrees that were punitively directed at a singular shooter.

 

Frustrated by my own instructions.

[Texas Jack Black]

12 hours ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

Man, it is sure lucky that I specified no decrees that were punitively directed at a singular shooter.

 

Frustrated by my own instructions.

 Put the CAN OPENER DOWN.

[JackSlade]

23 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Oh hell no!!!!!!

 

Unless...we went to Wax bullets...

 

Tsss, can't handle the breeze, don't turn on the fan ;P

[Texas Jack Black]

15 hours ago, Texas Jack Black said:

 No  The manufacturers of steel targets. they come with specs  for distances.

 

Best wishes

 All specs are listed on the Manufacturers  sites.  No need to list them here . If interested do a bit of research.

 

Best Wishes

[Tennessee williams]

"I don't sell targets. I sell large steel paper weights. What you do with them is up to you."