Primer pocket cleaning

[Muggins]

Alright, who bothers with primer pocket cleaning?  Is there any chance that a slightly dirty primer pocket could impede primer seating and potentially contribute to a light strike/failed ignition in the SASS world?

 

I don't clean pockets.  Not for regular pistol ammo, and not even for my bolt guns when I want my ammo to make teeny-tiny holes at distance, but the firing pins in those guns never have difficulty igniting the primer.  For a tuned lever gun that needs to eat rounds with primers OTHER THAN Federal, would a cleaner pocket prior to seating primers reduce a potential light strike, even if the reduction in failure rate is less than 1%?  Would a clean pocket have any significance on primer seating or should the force of a press or hand primer be sufficient to overcome any carbon residue/build up in the pocket?

 

I just deprimed several hundred pieces of brass with intent to run them through the Frankford Arsenal case prep before reloading, but wondering if it will have any meaningful effect.  Again, this is primarily for non Federal primers (Winchester) in .38 SPL and a tuned 1873 lever gun.  Thanks

 

[Rip Snorter]

Only for short runs of rifle cartridges. I do everything possible for those to get best possible results, including trimming, loading on a single stage, trickling powder and weighing bullets, etc.  I don't for handgun or bulk rifle.

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

I shoot nothing but Black Powder in my cartridges, which would probably leave more soot in a primer pocket than Smokeless.

 

I do all my loading on a progressive press.

 

Cleaning primer pockets would interrupt the process as the brass would have to be removed from the press after popping out the primers, the primer pocket cleaned, and then put back on the press to finish loading the ammo.

 

Complete waste of time, I have never had a primer fail to pop.

 

 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Why I wet tumble with ceramic media. 

Cases come out looking new....

[Uncle Ethan # 94321]

I deprime before cleaning the brass, so the primer pockets come out pretty clean.

[Eyesa Horg]

I've gone with the theory that if the expended primer fit in the pocket, the new one will. Also figure, if the press can't push it any further, the firing probably won't either. No science, just my thought on it!

[Three Foot Johnson]

Way back, when striving for minute of gopher groups at 400+ yards, I did. Today, I couldn't tell you the last time I cleaned a primer pocket...thirty years? Who knows.

[Jasper Agate]

After a number of years shooting BP out of 45 colt cases I started getting high primers. I found it was because of a build up crud inside the primer pocket. I started scraping the primer pockets and the problem disappeared. 

                                   Jasper

[Needle-Nose-Tom]

This post saved me valuable time and arthritis in my hands. Thank you. 

[wyliefoxEsquire]

I de-prime all black powder brass then wet tumble.

Smokeless cases are wet tumbles with primers

 

[ShadowCatcher]

When I'm building match ammo for my rifles (DCM, CMP or KD matches for Appleseed) I take the new brass and use a

primer pocket tool to square, chamfer and even out the primer pockets.  Usually it doesn't need further attention until

some good  4 or 5 reloads later, at which time a quick twist with a primer pocket cleaner will suffice.

 

I do resize and decap after cleaning, then individually throw powder and seat bullets, so it's not much extra effort.

 

SC

 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Why I wet tumble with ceramic media. 

Cases come out looking new..........

I do deprime before case cleaning 

 

[Oddnews SASS# 24779]

Not bulk-loading for SASS. Maybe with some rifle rounds built for more accuracy for hunting.

[Kid Rich]

I think it has as much to do with the press you are using. Sometimes on a Dillon 550 the primer will not seat all the way, actually leaving the primer a bit high. If I put the same case in a Lee single stage it can be seated all the way with out much effort. We have 3 550's and they are all the same.

kR

 

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

PLUS ONE for Driftwood.

 

Lots and lots of better time wasters 

[Choctaw Jack]

I was having FTF trouble with my .45 Colt rounds.After lots of head scratching, I started cleaning my primer pockets, one at a time.

This eliminated 99.9% of the problem, but having to remove each round from the press, cleaning the pocket, and replacing the round really got old. 

So I bought a wet tumbler and started depriming before tumbling ( with pins).

Not an issue now.

[Attica Jack #23953]

Has everyone forgotten about Murphy's Law?  If you don't clean primer pockets, it is not "IF" but "WHEN" you will have a failure to fire, because of a light hit on the primer because of a dirty primer pocket.  A failure to fire could cause a Pope and Young buck to get away, or a clean match to go bye bye.  Clean those pockets.  I always deprime and wet tumble with stainless pins, before that I used a hand primer pocket cleaner.

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

8 hours ago, Choctaw Jack said:

I was having FTF trouble with my .45 Colt rounds.After lots of head scratching, I started cleaning my primer pockets, one at a time.

This eliminated 99.9% of the problem, but having to remove each round from the press, cleaning the pocket, and replacing the round really got old. 

So I bought a wet tumbler and started depriming before tumbling ( with pins).

 

Again, I use a progressive press for my Black Powder ammo. Depriming before tumbling just adds one more (I think) unnecessary step. After a match I soak my brass in soapy water to remove BP fouling from the brass. Then I tumble in old fashioned crushed walnut shells. Doing this, the brass never gets bright and shiny again, which does not bother me. The spent primers are still in place, so whatever gunk is built up at the bottom of the primer pockets (yes, there probably is some) does not get removed. Then onto the progressive press to run through the entire cycle of reloading, without removing the brass for any intermediate steps.

 

7 hours ago, Attica Jack #23953 said:

Has everyone forgotten about Murphy's Law?  If you don't clean primer pockets, it is not "IF" but "WHEN" you will have a failure to fire, because of a light hit on the primer because of a dirty primer pocket.  A failure to fire could cause a Pope and Young buck to get away, or a clean match to go bye bye.  Clean those pockets.  I always deprime and wet tumble with stainless pins, before that I used a hand primer pocket cleaner.

 

I have been doing what I just explained for 20 years or so. Have NEVER had a failure to fire. NEVER! Maybe pressing my luck, but I think that is a pretty good track record. I don't hunt, so I am not concerned about a deer escaping my evil Black Powder cartridges. I doubt I would have a failure to fire anyway. A clean match?  I do not care how fast I shoot, so a clean match is what I am always trying for. If I miss a target and fail to get a clean match, it is because I MISSED! Nothing to do with if my primer pockets are clean.

[Preacherman]

#2 on Driftwood! 50+ years of reloading and 23 cowboy. When I  saw and heard of folks doing this I said to myself what? Why? I don't want to do more more pointless useless work. I thought that the deprimer pin would open and clean the flash hole in that step. Anyway, have a super reloading Christmas! 

[Warden Callaway]

50+ years of reloading.   Just take the time to do a better job.  Don't know no better.  Hell, I don't even spin my cylinder to check for high primers. 

[Captain Bill Burt]

Shoot, wet tumble, dry, reload, repeat.

When they show the least split or nick around the case mouth toss them. If the primer seats with no resistance toss it.

[Griff]

On 12/21/2022 at 6:18 PM, Muggins said:

Alright, who bothers with primer pocket cleaning?  Is there any chance that a slightly dirty primer pocket could impede primer seating and potentially contribute to a light strike/failed ignition in the SASS world?

 

I don't clean pockets.  Not for regular pistol ammo, and not even for my bolt guns when I want my ammo to make teeny-tiny holes at distance, but the firing pins in those guns never have difficulty igniting the primer.  For a tuned lever gun that needs to eat rounds with primers OTHER THAN Federal, would a cleaner pocket prior to seating primers reduce a potential light strike, even if the reduction in failure rate is less than 1%?  Would a clean pocket have any significance on primer seating or should the force of a press or hand primer be sufficient to overcome any carbon residue/build up in the pocket?

 

I just deprimed several hundred pieces of brass with intent to run them through the Frankford Arsenal case prep before reloading, but wondering if it will have any meaningful effect.  Again, this is primarily for non Federal primers (Winchester) in .38 SPL and a tuned 1873 lever gun.  Thanks

Until earlier this month, I'd never bothered to clean primer pockets except on my "target" rounds for whichever cartridge I was loading for.  I started shooting CAS in 1985 with the Coto Cowboys (original Wild Bunch) and the West End Outlaws.  I was loading all my ammo on a single stage RCBS Jr. II, and after 1986 I added my son's and wife's needs.  I never bothered to clean primer pockets on any of our .38Special or 45 Colt ammo.  In 1987 I bought my first Dillon progressive, a 550B and am still using it, now upgraded to a 550C.  In that nearly 38 years of reloading pistol ammo for CAS, I can count the number of times I've had a primer fail to fire in one hand... and each time I can probably say without equivocation it was due to a fouled primer.  I've probably had squibs in a quantity also less than one hand, each one before I started using the C45S case for competition.  Anyone who sez they've never had a squib or FTF of a primer is like that cowboy who sez they've never been throwed!  I would never attribute any less than fully seating primer to a dirty primer pocket, the far more likely cause is my own failure to fully drive the primer to proper seating depth.  

 

However, with all that said, nearly every .30-06, 45.70, 7mm RemMag & .30-30 round I've ever loaded whether for hunting or target purposes, has had its primer pocket cleaned.  If using new brass, I uniform the primer pocket as a 1st step, then proceed to finish the case prep process.  Since I got my wet tumbling outfit, I've only run a couple batches of .32-40, a few .30-30 & a couple matches worth of C45S cases thru it.  In review, I like clean primer pockets better'n not!   But, without the test of time, I can't say it's had an impact.   In the case of target rifle ammo, if you do everything from selecting bullets & cases by weight, trimming to exact length, etc, individually weighing every powder charge to get exactly the same charge weight, cleaning primer pockets is nearly a must do, or you're very likely throwing all the other steps out the window.  Unless your primer pocket fouling is exceedingly uniform, that is!   If you wonder how important all those steps are, how would you like consistent sub ½-MOA outta your ammo?

 

With wet tumbling the clean primer pockets is easy by-product of a step you're already doing, why not go for the clean primer pockets.  As an aside tho', whether you use pins or not, don't handle the dirty water, it contains all the same contaminates your dry media contained, including those that became air-borne in the dry tumbling process.

[Captain Bill Burt]

My ammo might be .5 MOA potential, but unfortunately my ability is closer to 3 MOA, if that!

[Griff]

1 minute ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

My ammo might be .5 MOA potential, but unfortunately my ability is closer to 3 MOA, if that!

When I get called for 9 misses on a string because of only one lead smear, I know my ammo is good-to-go!

[Muggins]

I’m just interested in reliability through a tuned lever gun with some Winchester primers. If cleaning pockets helps, I’m all for it. In the future I wouldn’t be opposed to letting a wet tumbler clean pockets after decapping, but alas, stuck with a media tumbler for the time being.

[watab kid]

i deprime after cleaning the brass , its how i was taught by a couple good friends and it has worked well for me over the years , i dont really need to clean the pockets this way - so i almost never do unless inspection at loading time indicates there might be an issue , very seldom does , 

im using a media tumbler , ive used all kinds of primers with no issues , i do hand prime to be certain they are properly seated , 

[Diamond Jake]

I was recently given a bunch of used (not sure how many firings) of 45 Schofield brass.  On reloading, almost none of the primers would seat fully, no mater how hard I pressed the loading tool.  My old brass of the same headstamp works fine with primers from the same box, so it's not a fault of the primers or my press.

 

I don't have the right size primer pocket reaming tool, so I'll be trying that after I get one.

 

Ordinarily I deprime, wet tumble, then size and reload on a Lee Turret press.

[Rance - SASS # 54090]

I’ve been reloading cowboy ammo in 38 special cases since 2004..

I clean it in a vibrating tumbler with half corncob and half walnut media..

I ain’t never cleaned a primer pocket yet.. 

I reload on a Dillon 550B..

 No misfires yet 

just sayin 

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

3 hours ago, Diamond Jake said:

I was recently given a bunch of used (not sure how many firings) of 45 Schofield brass.  On reloading, almost none of the primers would seat fully, no mater how hard I pressed the loading tool.  My old brass of the same headstamp works fine with primers from the same box, so it's not a fault of the primers or my press....

That's interesting.  What brand was the brass and did the primer pockets look dirty?  Maybe that's why somebody gave it away!    I've had defective Schofield brass (A-Merc) but it was a different issue, off-center flash holes.

[Sixgun Seamus]

I deprime, wet tumble with pins, couple drops of ArmorAll car wash, a shake of Lemishine and about a tablespoon of Strato Sheen. I do it all and my brass is clean in and out. I like it that way and my brass loves me for it. They promised me if I keep them clean and shiny that I would never have a miss. They lied. 

[Captain Bill Burt]

2 hours ago, Sixgun Seamus said:

I deprime, wet tumble with pins, couple drops of ArmorAll car wash, a shake of Lemishine and about a tablespoon of Strato Sheen. I do it all and my brass is clean in and out. I like it that way and my brass loves me for it. They promised me if I keep them clean and shiny that I would never have a miss. They lied. 

I suspect that, like me, you've never actually missed, you just need better spotters!!

[Rance - SASS # 54090]

Muggins..

sorry I just reread yer post.. 

All my 38 specials reloads have been shot through..

a tuned up Uberti 1866 yellowboy and a super stroked Uberti 1873 Delux.. I have shot Winchester small pistol primers for about 10 years and then switched to some Federal primers mixed in with the Winchester’s..

just sayin.. no misfires..

Rance

 

[Cyrus Cassidy #45437]

I don't with pistol / SASS loads.  But I do make some precision rifle loads that I take every optional step, including primer pocket cleaning and annealing.

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

On 12/21/2022 at 7:34 PM, Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 said:

Complete waste of time, I have never had a primer fail to pop.

 

 

Plus 44+ what Driftwood said. I do remember at a world champs shooting school many years ago said "if your firearm will only work with Federal  primers you may need a stronger spring" "Our guns should be able to work with any name brand primer". Good Luck

[Diamond Jake]

On 12/24/2022 at 10:57 AM, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

That's interesting.  What brand was the brass and did the primer pockets look dirty?  Maybe that's why somebody gave it away!    I've had defective Schofield brass (A-Merc) but it was a different issue, off-center flash holes.

 

Starline brass...same brand as all my others.  They were cleaned by previous owner with old primers still in.  Maybe he used some kind of polish or cleaner that settled in the groove at the bottom of the primer pocket.  At any rate, I just ordered a primer pocket uniformer that should clean it up.