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John Barleycorn, SASS #76982

China answers primer shortage

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NO!

Time to start ending reliance on their goods.

Nothing against the Chinese people themselves, but as for the Chinese Government.........

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Much of what we buy is made in China with no American made substitute. Why draw the line on primers? I don't like it but in most instances we don't have a choice.. Or the Chinese product is as good but cheaper.

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With the current additional tariffs that we impose on Chinese goods, they wouldn't sell for $25.

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No. But it would be great if half the other reloaders would so Federal could catch up to the demand and be on the shelf. From China's track record, the primers would be made from some toxic metal and would only go off 50% of the time.

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I love to buy everything I can "Made in the USA".

The problem is, that is VERY hard to do.

Why just Saturday I was in the process of ordering an RCBS M1000 powder scale.

I looked online and the info  I found said "the M1000 scale is made in Oroville, California".

I proceeded to order the scale but something told me to ask where it was manufactured on Amazon.

Turns out that scale  is made in China. As is lots of other RCBS reloading accessories that I have been assuming were made here in the USA. Kind of irks me.

 

So, if I could get some primers from somewhere else, Europe, China, where ever, Yes. I would try them out. Nope. Changed my mind.

Edited by Pat Riot, SASS #13748
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Somethings just aren't made in this country anymore, period. We bought a Curtis-Mantis TV years ago because I thought they were still made in the US. Turns out it wasn't and then I read an article that no TVs are made in the US anymore. This was 15 years ago so maybe some have moved back in the USA. Back during WWII a large reason we won was that we could out produce the Axis Powers using our own manufacturing and resources. I don't think that's the case any longer.

I work in a union shop and our policy is to buy USA-made tools. About the late 1990s I went to buy a few Craftsman wrenches only to see that they were plainly marked made in China. I put them back and commented on this to the salesman. He got kinda huffy and said "you union guys" were have to start getting used to this. Nope. There's still tool makers in the USA.

Last time I looked Craftsman were back to being made in the USA.

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If it boiled down to not shooting, or shooting using Chinese primers I would still be shooting.  So would most of you. I doubt many shooters would mothball their irons just because the only available primers are chinese or russian.

 

 

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absolutely not.

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Just now, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

You can thank the EPA for the stuff being made elsewhere. 

OLG 

Very true. Just like Obama saying he was going to put the coal industry out of business.

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1 minute ago, Cholla said:

Very true. Just like Obama saying he was going to put the coal industry out of business.

There's no more lead mining in the USA.

OLG 

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1 hour ago, Cholla said:

No. But it would be great if half the other reloaders would so Federal could catch up to the demand and be on the shelf. From China's track record, the primers would be made from some toxic metal and would only go off 50% of the time.

 

For all the complaints about Chinese-made garbage, Norinco's guns and ammo were always 100% reliable. They can build stuff right when they want to.

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8 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

There's no more lead mining in the USA.

OLG 

Not true. I shove spent lead bullets in my pockets every time I go to the range! :P

 

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I would be concerned that the Chinese would sell us corrosive primers - possibly without identifying them as corrosive.  Some European primers are sold in the US.  I load with French-made shotgun primers that load and perform quite well.

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I've been shooting CAS with Tulammo primers for 16 years.  While I prefer CCI and Federal, I'll buy what's available.  Especially if it comes to me being able to shoot...or not.

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1 hour ago, Cholla said:

 

I work in a union shop and our policy is to buy USA-made tools. About the late 1990s I went to buy a few Craftsman wrenches only to see that they were plainly marked made in China. I put them back and commented on this to the salesman. He got kinda huffy and said "you union guys" were have to start getting used to this. Nope. There's still tool makers in the USA.

Last time I looked Craftsman were back to being made in the USA.

 

Years back I knew some execs at a tool manufacturer. They were at established business with a good reputation. They told me they had worked for years to keep manufacturing in  the US.  But many tools were sold alongside Chinese-made tools at the hardware store. Consumers, including tradesmen, were buying the cheaper tools, period. They were good quality, but cheaper. So they had to move some manufacturing to China; no choice. They were able to obtain good quality control there. This story has been repeated countless times with manufacturers of all sorts.

 

It's not China, it's the American consumers. They talk American-made, but won't pay for it. Then, eventually, it has to go overseas.

 

But we all know this; it's an old story. Yet, on the one hand, people complain. Then on the other they tell you about their shopping at Wal-mart-- a pipeline of US dollars to China.

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I’m still miffed that S&B primers are no longer imported into the US.  About the same hardness as Federals, never failed to ignite.

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If I had to to keep shooting yes unfortunately 

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25 minutes ago, Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 said:

It's not China, it's the American consumers. They talk American-made, but won't pay for it. Then, eventually, it has to go overseas.

 

But we all know this; it's an old story. Yet, on the one hand, people complain. Then on the other they tell you about their shopping at Wal-mart-- a pipeline of US dollars to China.

So the. American consumer should simply bypass the less expensive product and spend their hard earned and shrinking dollars on a pricier item? Not human nature, regardless of your nationality. The fact is that it is no longer 1955. It’s a world market today. Competition is fierce, cutthroat and not always legal. If the US is unable to keep ahead or at least even with the foreign makers you can hardly blame it on Joe Sixpack.

 

 

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Made in America!   With imported parts and assembled by illegal aliens. 

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It is almost impossible to NOT be buy Chinese goods at this time.  If you have electronics of any kind, you're hooked into China in some form.  But, wherever I have a choice, I choose not to buy their products.  In my firearms I've made the switch to American-made.  

I realize that is not practical or affordable for everyone.  That's just my choice.

 

If Chinese primers were the only game in town, and I didn't have any.  Sure, I'd have to.

Fortunately, I'm not in that position as I've enough components to last me the rest of my life.

 

Given a choice, I'd pass on the Chinese product.  Yes, I'll be paying more.  

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13 minutes ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

So the. American consumer should simply bypass the less expensive product and spend their hard earned and shrinking dollars on a pricier item? Not human nature, regardless of your nationality. The fact is that it is no longer 1955. It’s a world market today. Competition is fierce, cutthroat and not always legal. If the US is unable to keep ahead or at least even with the foreign makers you can hardly blame it on Joe Sixpack.

 

 

Agree but it still irks me when I see someone wearing Nike shoes complaining about slavery. When there made with slave labor . People just want to make themselves feel good that the slaves might be getting treated better of the high dollar product they make for the rest of the world. The world is what it is 

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I don't blame it on anybody. But there have been many instances in which it has been shown that the US doesn't even have the industrial capacity anymore to compete with China in numerous areas. 

 

Several countries in the initial stages of the pandemic found that their preparations had included on-demand contracts with China instead of having the needed stuff on hand in warehouses-- and they considered that good planning.

 

I agree with the economics; it's Econ 101 but it illustrates the need for other policies not just tied to pricing.

 

I visited China 10 years ago and the overwhelming impression I took away was the huge scale of economic activity. Beijing and Shanghai had high-rise construction projects going as far as the eye could see. I talked to a Texas construction manager at our hotel in Shanghai who told me that the Chinese work 24/7 on construction projects and that his group could build buildings in one-third the time they could in the States.

 

I also came away glad that we are a nation of 300 million, still big enough to compete in the future with them. China is a great and ancient nation full of very smart and enterprising people and coming into its own was inevitable. Once you take the dead weight off of the Chinese, they explode into economic activity. It's definitely not anti-Chinese to figure out the right direction. It's a crucial matter of independence and security in the coming decades.

 

 

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49 minutes ago, McCandless said:

It is almost impossible to NOT be buy Chinese goods at this time.  If you have electronics of any kind, you're hooked into China in some form.  But, wherever I have a choice, I choose not to buy their products.  In my firearms I've made the switch to American-made.  

I realize that is not practical or affordable for everyone.  That's just my choice.

 

FYI someone on another forum bought some OEM Springfield Armory 1911 extractors and discovered that the package said "Made in S. Korea". So even when you buy an American-made product often the parts were outsourced overseas. I just replaced the tires on my Dodge last weekend, and when I took the alloy wheels off I saw they had "CHINA" cast into them.

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1 hour ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

So the. American consumer should simply bypass the less expensive product and spend their hard earned and shrinking dollars on a pricier item? Not human nature, regardless of your nationality. The fact is that it is no longer 1955. It’s a world market today. Competition is fierce, cutthroat and not always legal. If the US is unable to keep ahead or at least even with the foreign makers you can hardly blame it on Joe Sixpack.

 

This is why we need tariffs. Nobody in this country is going to work in a factory for $2.50/hr, and nobody is going to bypass Walmart when they can pay $10 for a Chinese wrench they'll only use once instead of $40 for an American one.

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9 minutes ago, Sixgun Sheridan said:

 

This is why we need tariffs. Nobody in this country is going to work in a factory for $2.50/hr, and nobody is going to bypass Walmart when they can pay $10 for a Chinese wrench they'll only use once instead of $40 for an American one.

That's why I go to yard sales and buy the USA wrenches for 50 cents!

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12 minutes ago, Cholla said:

That's why I go to yard sales and buy the USA wrenches for 50 cents!

Me 2. ;)

OLG 

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I guess I would, we All buy products made in other countries. All of us..   if you reading this and responding..........

 

Bear in mind that computers assembled in the U.S. are comprised of components shipped in from all over the world. Unless you custom-fabricate your own circuitry, it is next to impossible to build a PC exclusively sourced from North America. The mainstream supply chain for parts and components is predominantly of Asian origination. 

 

I WOULD like to buy only US made products (and I try) but, I do not see it as possible.

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20 years ago China was dirt cheap for manufacturing, but times have changed.  As of 2019, the average product can be manufactured in the US for just 5% more than in China according to Seller-Nexus.  Understand that's total cost including shipping to the point of sale (i.e. the US).

 

Between the negative impacts of supply chain disruptions (COVID), rampant intellectual property theft by the Chinese and fast rising wages, China has lost its hold on global manufacturing.  Prior to COVID, because of these issues, manufacturing had begun reshoring to the US and North America.  That trickle has become a torrent after the supply chain disruptions of 2020.  And if a manufacturer is not bringing the manufacturing back to the US, Mexico is the next location they are choosing to get it out of China and shorten their US supply chain. 

 

Technology is also playing its part.  In some industries low cost, Industry 4.0 robotics and co-bots, AI process controllers and 3D printing are allowing the US to produce at costs lower than the Chinese. 

 

Finally, thanks to China's "One Child" policy, they have a fast aging workforce that can't even be replaced by the next generation.  Expansion is impossible.  They won't even be able to maintain status quo.  Central planning has killed them economically.  Despite all the noise in the MSM, there is no way the 21 Century will be the Chinese Century.  The Chinese Miracle touted by the MSM is a debt bomb.  "China’s economy roughly quadrupled in size since 2000, but its debt load has increased by a factor of twenty-four."  They have so many nonperforming loans that are now backed by more loans from the same Chinese banks that when the first card tumbles, it will take the whole house.  Their economy will gridlock and go into full collapse.  They are past the point of no return.  Here's a good summary:

 

https://zeihan.com/a-failure-of-leadership-part-iii-the-beginning-of-the-end-of-china/ 

 

 

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Howdy,

I say we sell them rebuilt 60s muscle cars for 25 times what they cost new.

Best

CR

 

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7 hours ago, John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 said:

If China answers the primer shortage with quality primers at $25 per 1000 
Will you buy some?

Is this a trick question?? s10.gif.627b8e64637a13189b1f49278498d9a1.gif

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In a word, NO!

 

I'll switch totally to shooting my flintlocks first.

 

W.K.

 

 

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So how would you feel if China bought all available Federal stock? Not primers and ammo, I mean the stock on the stock market. Would that still be buying American?

 

Just thinking about how a German company assembles Volkswagons in the US and GM assembles US trucks in Mexico... What does buying American really mean today?

 

Apple is an American company... My computer and phone are Apple products. From China. Dell is a US computer company, and the parts come from... China. My coffee pot is a Mr Coffee, from a US company, Coffee pot has the usual gold sticker... from China.

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