McCandless

Howdy, Yep, that's a Bob Graham gun. http://www.jamesguns.com/gunwork.html It is specific to a discipline called "World Fast Draw" http://www.fastdraw.org/index.html Which uses Fanning or Thumbing. (He's been in business near 50 years and is not doing the fanning conversions any more.) That tall hammer is strictly for fanning. WDFA is different than Cowboy Fast Draw (CFDA), that uses a conventional revolver, or SASS which is not a fast draw competition, but a competition using rifle, pistols (2), and shotgun, with movement. World Fast Draw uses a fanning hammer, extensive modifications, and a lightweight, non-shooting barrel, these are quite costly to build. (I say non-shooting as in only shoot wax). Cowboy Fast Draw, the guns can be used with real ammo when not shooting wax in a fast draw match. Cowboy Action Shooting (SASS), uses guns without external modifications and real ammunition.

Due to the complexities and safety concerns of COVID-19 we’ve made the difficult decision to forgo the 2020 Huntsman World Senior Games this October. https://seniorgames.net/news/games-to-forgo-the-2020-season

Auction is over now. Somebody paid a buck a round for 9mm jacketed + shipping. It's much easier, every time you visit a gun store, to pick up a box of ammo, "just in case". (Yes, I know there are some states where that can be a royal pain!) Patronize your gun store, establish a relationship, keep them in business... because the big box boys don't care about you at all.

Just about all the double action revolvers of the mid to late 19th century were either, unwieldy, difficult to use (as in a long hard trigger pull), or fragile (as in the 1877/1878). Use in the occasional local match if your Match Director allows it. Heck, I even shot a pair of Nagants in a local match... once. The novelty quickly wears off. Using originals of the old DAs? They certainly weren't made for the kind of use we put on them. We shoot a gun more in one year than the makers thought the gun might fire in a lifetime. You want to shoot it? Do so locally, talk to your Match Director. No need to ask the entire SASS organization to change just for you.

How many who argue with the spotters calling a miss will argue with them calling a hit on one you thought you missed? Calls go both ways.

The shooter is then invited to leave the match with an MDQ for belligerent conduct. We don't argue with the spotters. Period. Just like arguing with an umpire over balls and strikes.

Yes, that was Charlton Heston. The quality of the picture is what it is. Not a lot I can do with it.

How light the hammer and trigger are set should be dependant on the individual shooter and your shooting style. There is no magic number. It is a matter of training and practice to find what is best for you. Shooting with a two-handed grip vs. a one handed grip, slip hammering vs. triggering each shot, riding the trigger vs. full let-off after each shot, jerking the trigger vs. a disciplined technique honed over continued practice... Start with an inexpensive Wolff Spring Kit, (or whatever brand you prefer), and see how it works for you. Don't start changing sear engagement unless you really are familiar with working on these. You can always put the stock spring back. Short-stroked Ubertis like the "Taylor-tuned" models use a factory mainspring, in order to reliably fire different brands of primers. I made the mistake early on of setting my triggers too light, resulting in firing the revolver sooner than I was "on target". Years later now, I am most comfortable with the triggers set with a clean break, (minimal or no creep), at approx. 2 lbs. I don't set up the triggers myself, properly done, it's more than just springs. So, I've had gunsmiths like Mike Brackett and Three Cut do them for me.

Pinetop Pete, Charlton Heston and Paydirt c. 1989

I know H.K. isn't serious about this thread, just a way of passing the time... Just thinking of the rules though.... if it is a "pistol caliber round", and can be downloaded to within SASS velocity limits, (or up to min. power factor), then the ammunition itself is legal. Looking up the specs on the Colt Walker, one fully loaded to capacity with powder is capable of "1,000 to 1,350 feet per second". That falls outside the "legal" velocity limits. The penalty for using illegal ammunition can accumulate to a MDQ. Not to mention, the first time you dent a target with your ammo, you'll be told to put up your guns or use different ammo. I was at multi-day match where after the second shot, the range safety officer told a shooter he was done for the day. The shooter was putting some serious dents in the targets. I believe he was shooting .45 "Ruger Only" loads... at least they seemed like it. On my FB site, we get an occasional chest-beater who says he only shoots "manly" Buffalo Bore ammo. We have to tell him about SASS rules, and that he'll need at least 120 rounds per match, plus practice, and each box of 20 Buffalo Bore rounds is $44+ They sort of disappear after that.

It is surprising and depressing how very few of my family have any interest in firearms. I am slowly divesting myself of extra guns, beyond what I am shooting now. An extra SKB just went. I'm down to two. I'm a BP shooter, I'm probably going to let my 97s go I've given my gunsmith my original Winchester '92 and my first rifle, (a '92) to sell as well as a pair of nickel-plated 7-1/2" .45s I think I have a buyer for my Lee-Enfield. My safe is still full. Letting go of the Colt's I've collected is going to hurt my heart. I hope I have enough years left to enjoy all the calibers and types I have... There's only so much room in the coffin for those I'm taking with me!

That's one thing it didn't involve! Thanks!

@Widder, SASS #59054, Send me a PM with yer phone number, so'se I kin palaver witchu about a Marlin thingy. ~Duc~

Widder, I need to talk with you about a Marlin, I misremembered your number. Can you PM me your info?

What I've seen happen lately is matches being sparsely attended due to COVID worries, and the brutally hot weather, with just 5-7 shooters. There will be one or maybe two experienced shooters. The rest, newer shooters, or shooters who have never taken an R.O. class. The experienced shooter is loading, and the timer is handed off to whoever is willing to take the timer. Maybe, if they are lucky, there will be three spotters. Sometimes, not enough to do that. The T.O. at the time has at best, only a passing familiarity of many of the rules. I wouldn't really even call them a match, more of a practice session with a timer. "Stuff" will happen in these situations. Nothing in the original post says how large a match this was, if the T.O. had attended R.O. classes, or any real details. Just a question about "benefit of the doubt." There isn't a benefit of the doubt, there's a right way or a wrong way. The T.O. did not know the right way, or became confused. Rather than humiliate this T.O., who may read this thread and never come back again, let's wait for the O.P to give us some more information, should he choose to. Let's not harangue people out of the game.

You take an entire statement I posted, pick out one sentence and proceed to try to pick an argument using one sentence from the SHB out of context. Let's look at the rest of the story: "OUTLAWED ITEMS SASS wants our participants to be safe, have fun, develop their competitive shooting skills, and enjoy the rich traditions of the Old West. We ask you join us in the friendly spirit of competition and preservation of our heritage. The use or presence of any of the listed outlawed items will result in a Stage Disqualification penalty. - Modern shooting gloves - Short sleeve shirts (male competitors only) - Short sleeve tee shirts, long sleeve tee shirts, and tank tops for all competitors. (Long sleeve Henley type shirts with buttons are acceptable.) - Modern feathered cowboy hats (Shady Bradys) Straw hats of traditional design are acceptable (e.g., Stetson, Baily, Sombreros, etc.) - Designer jeans are not allowed. Designer jeans include modern jeans that have slogans or logos embroidered, silk screened, and such, saying things like “PINK” or “BABY.” Jeans with fancy or flashy adornments are acceptable. - Ball caps. - All types of athletic shoes or combat boots, no matter the material from which they are constructed. - Nylon, plastic, or Velcro accouterments. - The displaying of any manufacturer’s, sponsor’s, or team logos on apparel. (Manufacturer’s labels on such apparel or equipment are acceptable)" That leaves an huge array of clothing choices. "Saturday morning at the matinee" has nothing to do with re-enactment. "Combination" means it is NOT a re-enactment. We have enough whiners saying that we don't dress "period" enough, without pushing it further. According to them poor ol' John Wayne wouldn't have been allowed to shoot with us. Those who wish to outfit themselves in clothes of the 1800s are welcome to. Classic Cowboys are a great sight on the range... batwing chaps and cuffs are "period correct" for the 1890s or later. But we're talking here about getting people started... you aren't helping. If you've got "Cowboy Untouchables" then contribute.

I'll be sure to send the thread-count dweebs your way. You're going to turn a new shooter away because they're wearing jeans and a long-sleeve shirt from their closet? Most shooters end up looking like something from "Bonanza", rather than anything from the 1800s. You do what you want but don't dictate it to someone else. I hate it when people "look down their noses" at someone else because of someone's guns, dress, lack of speed when shooting, or anything else. The person with that "superior" attitude hurts the game and I'd rather they weren't among us.

I'm going to steal a post and show you some comments from a shooter who was there "at the beginning", and is just tired of hearing all the kvetching. "Ugh. for all the "speed haters", it was a speed game back then as well, people tended not to moan about that, because they were moaning about getting in, out, on, off, down, around, carrying and throwing stuff, small steel, distances, all their misses, etc. ... I was there and actually started and ran a match back when we did that "wonderful stuff" as a rule everywhere and guess what? Just as many people moaning about what it could be if we'd just do this or that. Lastly, you might consider how your current match directors feel about your disdain for how we shoot the game currently. It didn't get this way by chance. *stepping away from the rant box...*" I have to agree with his sentiments. I haven't seen or heard one constructive comment about what folks think needs to be changed, that isn't already being done. Except to moan..."it ain't like what is was"... maybe that's because people wanted change and they didn't like "the way it was". You want distant targets? Small targets? Different types of stages? Write the matches at your club. Tell us the feedback after a year of doing it. Did your club grow, or numbers dwindle? You want a one pistol category? Make one at your club. You want a rimfire category? Make one at your club. Want to try something different? Do it at your club, see if it floats. You want more attendance at your club's matches? Make up some flyers and put them up in your local gun stores, bulletin boards, wherever! (That's how I found CAS). Too many categories, offer less categories at your club. (We had one club president that wouldn't honor "Silver Senior", lumping that into the "Senior" category... until he turned 65... then Silver Senior was allowed). You want old Double Action Revolvers? Do it at your club. Do you have a big turnout for matches with DA's? Let us know. At the club level you are wide open to experiment. Stop beating the drum everytime someone asks about a rifle or a revolver, telling them they need to get this or that whizbang "go fast" thing to be "competitive". To be competitive they need to be shooting. Everything else will come with time. Often, we are our own worst enemy. Telling somebody they need to buy Rugers with a "Jimmy Spurs" action job and short-stroke doesn't help bring in a fellow on a budget that has to squeeze each penny 'til it screams. Stop telling folks that they need to "be in costume". I hate the phrase "historically correct" when applied to SASS. We ain't a re-enactment. You want to be that way, more power to you. But a new shooter is fine in jeans, long-sleeve shirt, and some non-athletic shoes and maybe a not-ball cap hat. (My first CAS purchase was a palm straw hat with a wide brim after the skin doc carved off pieces of my face.) On social media I see posts all the time from folks asking if their Henry Big Boy .45 is legal for SASS. Simple question? Not when there are 60 replies telling him to sell the danged thing and get a Uberti '73. You'd be hard pressed to find an answer that says "Yes, bring it. You're near my range, come on out and I'll show you the ropes". You want more shooters? Act like it.

All these folks with their nebulous "it was better back then", have not come up with what was better back then and what their "untouchables" are for present day and the future. All complaining but no solutions. This "tricked out guns" argument is an expedient rationalization for why they don't, can't shoot better or faster. I have the best of work done on the best of guns by the best of gunsmiths... guess what? You can't buy a championship! Maybe if I practiced perfectly with another 10,000-20,000 rounds a year with the help of a mentor, and a lot more dry fire practice, I'd be able to shave some seconds off my stages, But, I'm not fooling myself, besides practice, there is also natural talent and folks less stove up than me. In my area, I'm never going to be as fast as Three Cut, Red River Ray, Null & Void, Marshal Harland Wolff, Earl E. Bird, JM Brown, and many others... I don't care, I'm having fun. There's a grin on my face and I keep coming back, sending smoke, lead, and BOOM downrange. If you have an idea of what would make things more fun and attract more people.... out with it already!!!!

Original Vision... is something that even the Wild Bunch couldn't keep. PWB has said that 99% of the rules were made because of less than 1% of the members. What rules would you do away with? (In which case... you would then allow what the rule forbids) What makes it NOT fun for you? (Maybe others feel that way, too). What would you want NOT touched? (Your Untouchables) For me, I'm no longer at the point where I can shoot prone from under a wagon, get up run and kneel behind hay bales for the next target., run and shoot from another position. Nor can I clamber up out of a coffin... Those were fun then, but this is now. We have to cater to the younger shooters and us older shooters, too.

This goes off the track of "What's your Untouchable", for that I do apologize. But, I wanted to mention that I have a social media site aimed primarily at those who know little to nothing about SASS or Cowboy Action Shooting. There are a LOT of folks out there who don't even know it exists! We've managed to get a number of those folks hooked and they proudly post pictures of their new badges. SASS is constantly getting new members. Does that offset the retiring, no longer active shooters? I do not know. .No one has grumbled or complained about the clothing requirements, once we explain that they don't have to shoot in one of the two "costume categories". (I'd like to see the SHB put the Costume Categories at the end of the Category Section instead of the beginning. It gets a lot of people confused). .There are a number of "former shooters" who complain about the lack of more stringent clothing requirements, and lack of movement in our stages. .There are a number of "former shooters" who complain that the targets are too close, and that they can't win unless they get their guns "short stroked" or shoot "wimp loads" like .38 special. I've tried to engage those former shooters, and ask if truly they were shooting near the top of their category, but indeed lost out because their guns weren't short-stroked, or their loads were too heavy to be competitive? Had they practiced to become as smooth and quick as possible on their transitions? Were they shooting as fast as they were able with no, (or minimal), misses? Had they refined their shotgun/shotshell handling to the point that there is little wasted motion? Do they practice against a timer? No one has answered these questions yet. Against my better judgement and my screaming joints: I've written matches with a couple of stages that had a lot more movement. The posses didn't like it. I've written matches with couple of stages that had the pistol targets further out, sometimes shooting at our biggest targets at 15-18yds. The posses didn't like it. I've written matches with couple of stages that were more complex. The posses didn't like it. SASS matches have evolved to "big and close" for the most part because the average shooter likes it. Not, because of the top shooters. More difficult stages are still won by the top shooters, because they are the more practiced, better, shooters. So, back to "untouchables" 1. Clothing Requirements 2. The Guns (This does not mean that local clubs can't continue to experiment in whatever way they like... rimfire category, sodbuster category, one gun, two gun, box stock category, whatever) (If folks want to shoot "box stock" nothing is stopping them. Come join us Frontiersmen and bring out your cap n' ball revolvers!) I would like to see some movement while shooting allowed, IF the shooter so chooses. W3G, Doc Shapiro's club, and other disciplines have proven that it can be done safely. But, I know I'm in the minority here, and that will never pass. I can't even find a TG willing to bring up the subject.

But, this thread is about what you NEVER want changed. What are your "untouchables"?

I think anything ought to be up for discussion. But minute changes in one category isn't the answer. Let's brainstorm in broad strokes. What is going to bring in more people in our target demographic. Folks in their 30's and 40's who now have the disposable income to play the game, whatever that game is. Will changing the firearms bring more people in? I doubt it. My "untouchable" would be the guns of the game. Clothing? A long-sleeve shirt and long pants? Non-athletic shoes? That's too hard? No. An "untouchable" for me would be the clothing minimum. No one is forcing anybody into the "costume categories". This is a thread about what our "untouchables" are, but when we express them, others jump in and criticize posters because we have "untouchables"... make up you mind!

Don't buy "over the counter" by the box. Use your Google-fu and find a bulk loader. I did a quick search and came up with this right away. There are more. https://choiceammunition.com/product-category/cowboy-action/cowboy-action-44-44/cowboy-44-special/

Are people who can't afford but one gun, or just a couple of rimfire guns, really going to travel, pay hotel, travel, match fees, food, and all that?