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Since I am either stupid or stubborn (likely both with stupid leading the way) - I continue to create threads trying to zero down on the needs of our game moving forward.

 

The general agreement is "we" love our game - but "we" know that changes are needed to sustain the sport for the next 40 years.

 

The fear is, if we change the wrong things - we risk not only failing to grow, but losing our current core of shooters.

 

So...

Just like I said in my other thread - I feel nothing should be off limits for discussion - but some feel differently.

 

What do you feel should be off limits and untouchable?

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Obviously, the annual dues need to be reduced to under $50. 

Marketing, marketing, marketing. 

Same guns.

Mandatory movement, stand and deliver does not excite anyone.

Get rid of rules that penalize shooters for moving one or two steps and empties in the SG.

Centralized World Championship in a gun friendly low crime state. 

Reduce the number of categories, age based should be enforced. 

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I'll take a different approach.

 

Frankly, we don't know what's going to work and what isn't.  I'd rather encourage local clubs to (so long as reasonable safety rules are enforced) relax or suspend various rules or make changes and test things out.  The grassroots is the biggest laboratory for change. 

 

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I have no answers but what I'd like to see is sass sanctioned clubs enforcing sass rules across the board. Too many times I've heard oh it'll be ok it's just a monthly or we don't bother with that rule here. 

I know this ain't NCOWS but maybe a working cowpoke category. 1 pistol and a rifle. That might lessen the load for someone just getting started. I understand there's plenty of categories already but what's one more? 

I personally don't think there's to many categories. I think there's to many combination of categories. Either you shoot age based, costume, style, or BP. No need to make a full sentence out of what category you're in. 

Lots of good points made in the last post.

 

Jack

 

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Lots of ideas... Just like the other posts. But I thought this was about "untouchables"?

 

Here are a few:

 

No baseball caps

No Shady Bradys

 

Uhhhh....oh, no tee shirts.

 

There ya go!

 

Phantom

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Dress/Costuming is untouchable.

 

 

We just need to work on perception externally.

 

 

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In the words of my buddy, NOZ!!

 

Leave Frontiersman ALONE!!

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

In the words of my buddy, NOZ!!

 

Leave Frontiersman ALONE!!

Now if and a big if I could change 1 thing in frontiersman it would be that you have to use a hammered shotgun, the first hammerless wasn't invented until 1878 but weren't  perfected until 1883.

Rafe 

Edited by Rafe Conager SASS #56958
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PLUS ONE Rafe  :ph34r:

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Perhaps I was unclear.

Untouchables are items that are currently present within our game that IF they they were tweaked, adjusted, modified or removed - YOU would feel the game was being destroyed.

 

Untouchables can also take the opposite path and be items that IF they were added, integrated or present - YOU would feel the game was being destroyed. 

 

I know there is huge laundry list of things we would love to add, remove, change - but for this thread try to focus on what you feel is sacrosanct.

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2 hours ago, Rafe Conager SASS #56958 said:

Now if and a big if I could change 1 thing in frontiersman it would be that you have to us a hammered shotgun, the first hammerless wasn't invented until 1878 but weren't  perfected until 1883.

Rafe 

I could live with that.

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5 hours ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

Since I am either stupid or stubborn (likely both with stupid leading the way) - I continue to create threads trying to zero down on the needs of our game moving forward.

 

The general agreement is "we" love our game - but "we" know that changes are needed to sustain the sport for the next 40 years.

 

The fear is, if we change the wrong things - we risk not only failing to grow, but losing our current core of shooters.

 

So...

Just like I said in my other thread - I feel nothing should be off limits for discussion - but some feel differently.

 

What do you feel should be off limits and untouchable?

Are we sure that change will be needed to sustain our game?  The several clubs I belong to have all seen a steady influx of enthusiastic new shooters who love what we do now.  They have come in all ages, with quite a few in their thirties or early forties. We aren't recruiting them  by hundreds or even by dozens, but we are definitely replacing attrition.  Maybe we won't tip the world off its axis with the weight of new members, but maybe that's OK as long as we continue to enjoy our sport.  It doesn't seem like it has to be a grow-or-die situation, as long as we can achieve the minimum financial thresholds to keep playing.  Making major experimental changes hoping to attract new growth seems like too vague of an objective.  And we might not like whom we attract as new voting club members.  They could potentially make a lot of changes that many of us might not like.  

 

 To summarize, I'd say making changes to the core of the game or rules without adequate market analysis should be a definite "untouchable". 

 

Just thoughts.  

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DON'T CHANGE:  The two pistol rule.  I've heard many complaints over the years about having to have two pistols to compete.  Temptation would lead clubs to remove that rule to bring in more shooters.  I firmly believe we should avoid that temptation.

 

CHANGE:   No movement while shooting.  No, not all clubs have the ability to host a match that allows shooting while moving.  I firmly believe clubs that do have that ability should be allowed to. 

 

 

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12 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Lots of ideas... Just like the other posts. But I thought this was about "untouchables"?

 

Here are a few:

 

No baseball caps

No Shady Bradys

 

Uhhhh....oh, no tee shirts.

 

There ya go!

 

Phantom

And no printed shirts with cats on them... Smile

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Continue to allow percussion revolvers, .36 caliber or bigger, as legal in every category.

 

Continue to require the minimum smoke standard in all black powder categories.

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15 minutes ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

Continue to allow percussion revolvers, .36 caliber or bigger, as legal in every category.

 

Continue to require the minimum smoke standard in all black powder categories.

The current BP rule it's disruptive, subjective and therefore rarely used. It needs reworking.

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Increase the Power Factor in all categories.

 

On a personal note, I dislike the growing emphasis on speed at all cost, at the expense of the older style SASS/CAS.

I seem to recall a preamble/thoughts/feelings about not allowing CAS to become IPSC in cowboy clothing and that was what initially attracted me to this sport.

I don't know or have any empirical data, except the posses I shoot with around here, but most of us seem to prefer the more traditional style match.

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29 minutes ago, Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474 said:

Increase the Power Factor in all categories.

 

On a personal note, I dislike the growing emphasis on speed at all cost, at the expense of the older style SASS/CAS.

I seem to recall a preamble/thoughts/feelings about not allowing CAS to become IPSC in cowboy clothing and that was what initially attracted me to this sport.

I don't know or have any empirical data, except the posses I shoot with around here, but most of us seem to prefer the more traditional style match.

This is a thread on what it is about SASS that you feel shouldn't be touched...and I'm glad you want to make it more difficult for old folks/ladies/kids/etc to enjoy the game...oh, and you want to beat up targets ;)

 

Perhaps you should venture out from your group of folks and talk with others that you normally don't associate with.

 

Lastly, define "traditional style match" please...but perhaps you should start your own thread.

 

Phantom

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Posted (edited)

I do not see a problem with the $50 sanctioning fee.  I know it was a bone of contention when it was levied and many clubs dropped their affiliation.  A 50-50 drawing or two could easily raise that money.  I don't see any need to do away with it.  But, I'd like to see the SASS non-sanctioned clubs become sanctioned.  I'm just not sure how to go about it.  The clubs get the benefit from the advertising here and in the Chronicle.  SASS benefits from the revenue no matter how small it may seem.  If there's 100 unaffiliated clubs, that's $5000 for SASS.  Other clubs may benefit from shooters traveling from club to club.  I think that listing all clubs is beneficial to recruitment, too.  How many times have we heard that a prospective new shooter does not join because there are not clubs close to him/her?  I know I've encountered prospective new shooters when working at the Great American Outdoor Show that live nearer a non-sanctioned club than the sanctioned ones in the Chronicle.  I believe there are at least two here in northeastern PA.
What can we do to bring them into the fold?

 

Edited by Black Hills Barb

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If Rimfire is added participants in that category can't be eligible for overall winner.

 

There must be an overall winner. 

 

Do not expand the allowable guns to include any non-cowboy guns such as double action revolvers, semi-autos of any kind, or bolt action rifles.

 

Do not mandate target sizes or distances. 

 

Do not offer cash awards for performance.

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2 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

...and I'm glad you want to make it more difficult for old folks/ladies/kids/etc to enjoy the game..

Add to that those of us with arthritis in our hands.

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The things that make this cowboy action shooting are the things that should be untouchable:

The period correct guns (style at least)

Clothing requirements

 

I think start lines are VERY important.  As are props and stage fronts/settings.  These help set the stage for the scenario.

 

I certainly don't want to see any post-1900 era guns.

No ball caps or running shoes.

No sponsorship logos.

 

That's all I can think of for now.

Possum

 

 

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Funny, cuz for the most part out west, starting lines aren't very popular.

 

Phantom

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3 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Funny, cuz for the most part out west, starting lines aren't very popular.

 

Phantom

 

They were making a come-back, when we moved.  ;)

I've always liked the idea....

OLG 

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20 hours ago, Rafe Conager SASS #56958 said:

Now if and a big if I could change 1 thing in frontiersman it would be that you have to use a hammered shotgun, the first hammerless wasn't invented until 1878 but weren't  perfected until 1883.

Rafe 

Please don’t get that started again.  Not giving trophy or like on this idea. Sorry buddy.  This is not a cut.  The group that created Frontiersman created the same as the FCGFs did a few years ago. They built it.  We weren’t there.  I play Frontiersman by their rules and I love the category more than the others.  Leave Frontiersman alone!

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16 minutes ago, Tucker McNeely said:

Please don’t get that started again.  Not giving trophy or like on this idea. Sorry buddy.  This is not a cut.  The group that created Frontiersman created the same as the FCGFs did a few years ago. They built it.  We weren’t there.  I play Frontiersman by their rules and I love the category more than the others.  Leave Frontiersman alone!

Kinda hate hijacking...but what the hell.

 

Your logic escapes me. By your position, no rules can ever be change because some mystic deity made the rules.

 

Phantom

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Years ago there was a line drawn in the sand to stop shooters from doing things that the Wild Bunch thought made the game look bad visually.  When the Wild Bunch steps aside, I hope that line doesn't get scuffed out.   

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Just now, Nasty Newt # 7365 said:

Years ago there was a line drawn in the sand to stop shooters from doing things that the Wild Bunch thought made the game look bad visually.  When the Wild Bunch steps aside, I hope that line doesn't get scuffed out.   

But it was from 10 feet away ;)

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Posted (edited)

All these posts about Frontiersman... changing something in a sparsely populated category to make it more sparsely populated is going to effect SASS for the next 40 years... how?

 

Lower the yearly dues... but market, market, market.  Where's the funds for all this marketing going to come from?

 

Costuming... can we lose that word and just call it clothing?  It turns people off.

 

One gun?  One gun and a rifle?  Sodbuster category, rimfire categories... leave that to clubs to do at the local level.  Championships should stay with current SASS firearm rules.

 

Edited by McCandless
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4 minutes ago, McCandless said:

All these posts about Frontiersman... changing something in a sparsely populated category to make it more sparsely populated is going to effect SASS for the next 40 years... how?

Actually the thread supposed to be about things we don't want changed.

 

:o

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6 minutes ago, McCandless said:

One gun?  One gun and a rifle?  Sodbuster category, rimfire categories... leave that to clubs to do at the local level.  Championships should stay with current SASS firearm rules.

 

Are people who can't afford but one gun, or just a couple of rimfire guns, really going to travel, pay hotel, travel, match fees, food, and all that?

 

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17 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Actually the thread supposed to be about things we don't want changed.

 

:o

I kind of jumped the gun and listed things I wouldn't change if there was a new org. 

Adjustable sighted handguns should be legal to use and all categories except Classic Cowboy. There are a lot of Blackhawks out there that potential shooters would enjoy shooting. After all, they were deemed to be of no advantage.

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Posted (edited)

I'm going to leave it be.

 

The overwhelming responses I'm hearing are,

"SASS is going to do whatever they are going to do.  There's no point to asking these questions"

or

"I really don' t care what happens.  I just don't want any changes to MY category or the way I play the game"

 

Apparently most would rather live under a dictatorship than offer opinions or productively work toward change.

Good luck.

 

Edited by Creeker, SASS #43022
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