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Crusty Knees

Gunfighter - Double or Single Cocking?

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I'm really inexperinced at this.  The only thing I've done so far is some dry-fire practice at home.

I naturally seem to want to double cock. 

I've watched Youtube videos, and there are good shooters doing it either way.

I've read some posts here that say not to double-cock while others say it's ok.

Is it, just do what feels best to you?  Or, is there some reason to pick one way over the other?

 

Thank you,

CK

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Posted (edited)

You can double cock but you can't shoot at the same time. If you run into a split pistol stage you will naturally cock both pistols and that is when you get into trouble because you can't move with a cocked pistol. But that is about all of the down side.

Edited by Flash
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I like to double cock, but like Flash stated, sometimes you have to take the movement of the stage into consideration-such as a stage with split pistols and movement in between).  It is very easy to get caught up in the stage and forget that you have a pistol cocked.  For those stages, I prefer to just shoot the stage double-duelist (which is allowed for gunfighters).  That assures that I won't move with a cocked pistol in my hand and get a "P" and a miss to boot.  Only one way to fix a cocked hammer if you have to move, and that is to fire the round.

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Other challenge, though not really your problem, is that double cocking patterns sometimes confuse spotters and you then get involved in a several  "was that a P?" conversations.    Seems like the single cockers get less of this issue.

 

I actually do both.  There are a couple of patterns that I find way easier if I double cock but generally I single.   Do what you feel most comfortable with.  The cocking the extra gun on split pistols can get you either way, as I did to myself last year at our state match!  

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i double cocked until the end of last year. About 3 1/2 years. Now I am single cocking but have only shot one match doing so. Done a lot of dry firing. I really think it may be easier as far as the stage scenarios to keep from getting Ps. Will know more after a have shot more matches.

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Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, Crusty Knees said:

Or, is there some reason to pick one way over the other?

 

Thank you,

CK

I double cock but I am not sure I could single cock.  I change leads at will, single cock shooters have to cross over to stay in alternation.  I think everyone is different so you make your choice but ether way it is much funner with a pistol in each hand.  If I need to shoot only 5 I pull both pistols and single cock the pistol on the side of the stage I am on, move to the other side and shoot 4 then single cock the remaining round.

 

Fordyce

Edited by Fordyce Beals

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21 minutes ago, Johnny Longpants said:

Other challenge, though not really your problem, is that double cocking patterns sometimes confuse spotters and you then get involved in a several  "was that a P?" conversations.    Seems like the single cockers get less of this issue.

 

I actually do both.  There are a couple of patterns that I find way easier if I double cock but generally I single.   Do what you feel most comfortable with.  The cocking the extra gun on split pistols can get you either way, as I did to myself last year at our state match!  

I double cock and change leads as well.  If the spotter is confused it means they are watching the shooter not the target.

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When I shot gunfighter, I double cocked.  The potential problems are as stated above.  I didn't have any issues with them.  The good side, for me, was I could easily switch leads so I never crossed pistols during a sequence.  There are many shooters with each style, but I think you see the majority will alternate pistols.   Either way works, and if one is more comfortable for you, go with it.

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Single cocker here, no reason other than that's how I started and see no reason to change.

 

7 minutes ago, Fordyce Beals said:

 change leads at will, single cock shooters have to cross over to stay in alternation. 

 

I've never crossed over to stay in alternation. 

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I'm not quick at all but I was told single cocking was a shade quicker. you'll be pulling the trigger while cocking the other one. when done efficiently there wont be a lull in your cadence like with double cocking. IDK how true that is because I cant do it quick enough yet but that's what I was once told. 

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I single cock. I change leads as needed as well, you don't have to double-cock to change leads.

 

I've never tried double-cocking, but there are a couple of stages coming up in a match that it may be advantageous, so I may try it. It's a mid-week match, so more casual, good time to try something new.

 

The fastest gunfighters I've seen have combined single-cocking with slip-hammering. I've seen a couple of videos where guys doing that could get their 10 rounds off in a very short time, like 3 seconds. I don't know that I'll ever get to that point. Sure is fun working towards it though!

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Single cocking, when done optimally using the alternating cocking the fired gun while simultaneously aiming with the other gun, requires more coordination. Double cocking, when done optimally, requires more thought process. I am far more coordinated than smart so I single cock. As for speed, the fastest in these parts do the double cocking.

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I alternate back & forth, cocking one while I'm shooting the other.

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I double cock.  To get past the split pistol issue, I single cock the first shot, then double cock the next two times.  That way I get my single shot out of the way and at the end of the 5 shot string, I am left with both hammers down.  Getting caught with a cocked pistol and having to move is not a good thing.  Just remember which pistol you have the extra round in.  I usually single cock my left pistol first and finish up the last shot with the right pistol.

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1 hour ago, El Hombre Sin Nombre said:

Single cocking, when done optimally using the alternating cocking the fired gun while simultaneously aiming with the other gun, requires more coordination. Double cocking, when done optimally, requires more thought process. I am far more coordinated than smart so I single cock. As for speed, the fastest in these parts do the double cocking.

Well said. I'm more smarter and less coordinated, so I double-cock. I envy the alternating shooters, though. When it's done well, it's impressive how they can use either gun any time they want -- and seemingly effortlessly.

 

@Crusty Knees They both seem to work well -- see what works for you. I've been gunfighting/double-cocking for about 18 months now, and I don't really have to think about switching leads any more. I follow the Myles Houston and Shamrock Sadie school of thought by thinking in pairs -- I say to myself, "buh-dat, buh-dat, buh-dat, buh-dat, BUH-DAT." This might make more sense to you as you continue your journey down the double-cocking road :)

 

Interestingly, I have also noticed recently that my double-cocking occasionally slides into more of an alternating pattern in the middle of a string, depending on the pattern. I don't think about it when it happens, though. Maybe my coordination is improving? /shrug

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@Crusty Knees how new are you to the sport in general? If you haven't shot many matches I'd recommend shooting double duelist for a little while before going gunfighter.

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1 hour ago, Three Foot Johnson said:

I alternate back & forth, cocking one while I'm shooting the other.

I double cock to start but once the first round is fired I then cock the just fired pistol the same time as I am shooting the second and so on. Can change leads or shoot five then move without any problems. This way my pistol is pretty much always cocked when it reaches the target over pointing on target then cock and shoot.

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BOTH methods are used by many top shooters.    Often, with something of this nature, it can

be how your brain is wired which might help you determine YOUR most efficient way.

 

Badlands Bob posted above the right information about avoiding your movements with a cocked pistol.

 

The Cowboy World Record for the GF style 'Draw and Fire 10 shots on steel'  is 1.81 seconds. 

The method used is alternating each shot with the single cocking style.

 

 

BUT, there are double cockers just as fast and efficient.

 

What ever method you decide, your efficiency (speed and accuracy) will be determined by the

amount of PRACTICE you put into it, assuming you have good health in your hands, fingers, etc...

 

Good Luck.   GF is super fun.

 

..........Widder

 

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I've tried it a few times and I just naturally single cocked. 

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Great comments but one issue that was glossed over.  A good double cocker (fast shooter) is going to get a “p” because the spotters ( who can’t hear and have ear plugs to lessen their ability to hear) will say they didn’t hear it hit the correct target.  While Matt Black, Smokestack and others can shoot 10 shots before I have drawn my pistols, the rules let the spotters call a “p’ even though they can’t tell you why.

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I shoot pairs (double-cock) so every two pistol string is converted to pairs of shots. 

 

What nobody has mentioned here is eye dominance. I am right handed and left eye dominant but grew up shooting right handed. What that results in, for me, is that I can see both sights at the same time, a real advantage on multi-tap sequences, not so much when there is target separation. 

 

It is my observation that the more dominant your eye is, the more advantageous alternating is. 

 

I also believe the learning curve is steeper for shooting pairs, and yes, I hate counters that count by cadence and are easily confused with something different.

 

Doc Nelson

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I draw and cock both. Then shoot one and cock it while aiming and firing the other and repeat. Still having some misses but that is a hand eye brain trigger squeeze thing with me. I can blister a big up close dump target though. :D

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It is virtually impossible to shoot both pistols at the exact same time.   But I watched my Pard blow two state matches (sequentially) due to spotters who couldn't keep up. They and the timer can not distinguish between shots. He went back to shooting duelist for a year, but is back as a gunfighter now.

 

I always try to be doing two things at the same time. Like everyone else, I have two hands and they each need to not be waiting on the other hand to finish what it's doing to continue. When you pull the trigger your cocking the other hammer.

 

Shooters get too wrapped up on crossover. Gunfighter should be smooooth to be fast. How much time between dbl cocking vs. time between sequential cocking shots is the only point where time can be made up (and it's not much). Yes, with practice it can be done, but how many years does that take? You need to keep both pistols moving. Dbl cocking is a bunch of stop and start (or speed-up vs. slow down), which adds up the time. If you stop and start in sequential shooting, you'll tend to crossover. I only shoot one stage Dbl Cock throughout, that is the Nevada Sweep where there is a lot of crossover potential. The rest,  I change between Dbl Cock and Sequential and back again w/o thinking about it on the same stage at times.  

 

With split pistol stages, around here most of the time we stick the shotgun and/or rifle in between pistols. I don't know how many times I've seen a shooter pull an empty gun or fire a spent case on the next to last shot. Now that is a lot of wasted time...  I recommend shooting the left gun on left target, right on right Duelist till your good at knowing when to not cock your next gun. As Long Hunter says, practice what your not good at... I have an unsubstantiated phobia of shooting my weak hand first (actually do better on the first shot with weak hand). Something I keep working on. Not shooting sequential because of potential crossover is not as big of a deal than all the other potentials.

 

Dryfire at home and monthly matches where you can slow things down on a timer will get you to where you want to be. It's just hard to get off your race horse when the timer is behind you. But if you don't do it, you won't improve with time.

 

JMHO

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18 minutes ago, Mister Badly said:

I draw and cock both. Then shoot one and cock it while aiming and firing the other and repeat. Still having some misses but that is a hand eye brain trigger squeeze thing with me. I can blister a big up close dump target though. :D

I do the same thing, but I'm not saving any time as I'm re-cocking as I'm shooting the other pistol and there is no time savings there.

 

For me, it's just uncomfortable and I try not to do it. I find if I start the way I'm going to shoot the stage, it is easier to get the rhythm and cadence going right off the start. Less to think about. When I draw with the Dbl cock, my brain thinks I'm supposed to Dbl shoot and slows me down to resolve the issue. :wacko:

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Speed only counts when you HIT the target.  
 

I can “dump” 10 shots a little quicker double cocking.  I hit a little better alternate cocking (after an initial double cock).

 

Double cocking takes more disciplined control to visualize sequences.  And to take advantage of the intrinsic speed advantage, you have to point-shoot the second shot of each pair of shots.  (Thus the misses, for me anyway).

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3 minutes ago, Cypress Sam, SASS #10915 said:

Speed only counts when you HIT the target.  
 

I can “dump” 10 shots a little quicker double cocking.  I hit a little better alternate cocking (after an initial double cock).

 

Double cocking takes more disciplined control to visualize sequences.  And to take advantage of the intrinsic speed advantage, you have to point-shoot the second shot of each pair of shots.  (Thus the misses, for me anyway).

 

Cypress Sam knows GF.    I consider him one of our finest 'Godfathers' of the GF category, along with

Lassiter and a couple others.

 

His words have iron!

 

..........Widder

 

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7 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

 

Cypress Sam knows GF.    I consider him one of our finest 'Godfathers' of the GF category, along with

Lassiter and a couple others.

 

His words have iron!

 

..........Widder


Them’s mighty kind words Widder!

CS

 

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Posted (edited)

My opinion is if you're a top 2% shooter, then you MAY have the ability and dedication to turn double cocking into an advantage on SOME stages. Otherwise, stick to single cocking. I've seen very few people develop the ability to turn double cocking into an advantage as it requires that you gallop the pistols; two shots that are very close, but are distinguishable from each other by the human ear. It sounds like a loud cadence of a horse galloping; ba-boom, ba-boom, ba-boom, ba-boom, ba-boom. The problem is you're walking a thin line from double discharging and, because it is a progressive penalty, can over the course of a match lead to a MDQ. It's a gamble. 

 

I'd start with single cocking and if you turn out to be a top 2 percenter, then learn the double cock gallop and let the stage dictate which method you use for that particular stage. 

Edited by Buck D. Law, SASS #62183
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I am really admire those that are saying they can do both double and single cocking. I am trying to move from double to single cocking and trying to do both during a match would be a large train wreck for me.

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Posted (edited)

Howdy Crusty Knees.

 

Here is something to ponder as you practice and try to determine your preferred method (A or B)

in shooting GF.

 

With Method 'A', you presently feel that you are 75% proficient.

With Method 'B', you feel like you are only 50% proficient.

 

Now, with lots of practice you can gain 10% MORE proficiency with Method A.

Also,  with lots of practice, you can gain 50% MORE proficiency with Method B.

 

If you do the math, you will discover that you will now be at 82.5% proficient with Method A.

But, you will only be 75% proficient with Method B.

 

NOW..... here is a little Widder secret:

Quickly find out which method your are 'wired' for,  one that is more natural and feels right

for you.   Then put ALL of your practice efforts into that Method and become a GF terror..... ;)

Stop waisting your time on something that becomes a negative gain and takes away

your Practice time on positive gains.  

 

We are all 'wired' differently and basically, only you can determine the best method for you.  But

to help yourself determine the 'Crusty Knee' method, you are going to have to indulge in some

PRACTICE.    

 

My strong belief and experience is that this is also true of your SG, whether it be a SxS, 87 or 97.

 

Good luck.

 

..........Widder

 

Edited by Widder, SASS #59054
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Practice??  Um .. Practice.  Widder, what is this "Practice" of which you speak??  Strange term it is.  Familiar with am not.

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This is the best recommendation that I've ever read.  I'm wired to double cock.  Others are wired to alternate.  Do what feels better and get good at it.

 

NNV

 

On 3/14/2020 at 9:09 AM, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

Howdy Crusty Knees.

 

Here is something to ponder as you practice and try to determine your preferred method (A or B)

in shooting GF.

 

With Method 'A', you presently feel that you are 75% proficient.

With Method 'B', you feel like you are only 50% proficient.

 

Now, with lots of practice you can gain 10% MORE proficiency with Method A.

Also,  with lots of practice, you can gain 50% MORE proficiency with Method B.

 

If you do the math, you will discover that you will now be at 82.5% proficient with Method A.

But, you will only be 75% proficient with Method B.

 

NOW..... here is a little Widder secret:

Quickly find out which method your are 'wired' for,  one that is more natural and feels right

for you.   Then put ALL of your practice efforts into that Method and become a GF terror..... ;)

Stop waisting your time on something that becomes a negative gain and takes away

your Practice time on positive gains.  

 

We are all 'wired' differently and basically, only you can determine the best method for you.  But

to help yourself determine the 'Crusty Knee' method, you are going to have to indulge in some

PRACTICE.    

 

My strong belief and experience is that this is also true of your SG, whether it be a SxS, 87 or 97.

 

Good luck.

 

..........Widder

 

 

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1 hour ago, Null N. Void said:

This is the best recommendation that I've ever read.  I'm wired to double cock.  Others are wired to alternate.  Do what feels better and get good at it.

 

NNV

 

 

I agree, best advice I have heard.

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