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T-Square

Can we update the Wire Classified Guidelines?

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I may be stiring the pot...... so here goes;

 

1. After an item is posted for sale on the wire, and you make a deal, DO NOT DELETE the original asking price.

 

i would also suggest that you update your posts and reveal the final terms, in the interest of transparency and "market making". I'm sure this will get plenty of criticism, on the grounds of privacy concerns and the constant political attack on 2nd amendment. I wouldn't reveal the final terms, but I would leave the original ask. This would give people a better understanding of the market prices.

 

2. Add a suffix indicating your timeline for sale.

 

when you offer an item for sale, under the current guidelines you MUST list the asking price.

I suggest that you add a new suffix that helps explain your asking price;

 

(G) for sale - at a reasonable price with the intent to sell soon. I've done my research and a similar item recently sold commensurate with my asking price. Let's do this deal!

 

(U) for sale - but I'm looking to get a price that far exceeds the current value (I consider this Lottery Money), and I have no intent to sell  this item until some idiot comes along within the next few years. Please note that I've even had these for sale on other gun websites for a year with no-replies or offers. I don't need to sell and my desire to sell is very low.

 

(N)  for sale, but I'm only listing this item to make my spouse happy, but please don't reply to my advertisement, because I won't answer.

 

can anyone on the wire think of anything else we can do to make the market more efficient, and to get some good cowboy guns into the hands of people who will use them and out of their gun safes?

 

Statement on political correctness by the author; nothing in this message was intended to offend any Safe Queens, or to violate their safe space.  If it does, I'm sorry but IMPEACH ME ! 

 

Edited by T-Square
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Seems to work alright the way it is, IMHO. I’ve bought and sold lots of guns and other stuff without a hitch. I’m just trying to figure out if you’re serious or indeed stirring the pot.

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Yul,

Yes it works, but could be better.

Don't  you see all the listing that never sell?

ever wonder why? 

Apologies if I sound like a capitalist or free market enthusiast - but the first thing that comes to mind is "Price".

thanks for all the wisdom that you share on the wire with us newbies.

Edited by T-Square

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39 minutes ago, T-Square said:

Yul,

Yes it works, but could be better.

Don't  you see all the listing that never sell?

ever wonder why? 

Apologies if I sound like a capitalist or free market enthusiast - but the first thing that comes to mind is "Price".

thanks for all the wisdom that you share on the wire with us newbies.

I think I understand what you’re getting at and you have some valid points. Maybe a little massaging is in order, but a lot can be done on a voluntary basis now such as listing something sold when it sells and checking on the items that somebody lists more often so that buyers and sellers don’t  get discouraged when there is no activity from the buyer or seller for many days.

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An item is worth what someone will pay for it. I recently saw a pair of pistols at a price I thought was a little high. I thought about saying that, but let it go. They'll sell, or the seller lowers the price. Seems like when I'm in the market for something, no one is selling. Two days after I break down and buy it retail, three of them show up in the classifieds. And at a better price, too!

Edited by Marshal Chance Morgun
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16 minutes ago, T-Square said:

 

Well I typed up a long point by point answer to your original post. thought better of it and deleted it all.

Summarized as follows...

A free market capitalist should be capable of recognizing that asking price, expenses, profit and selling price are all highly fluid and in the end only relevant between the buyer and seller. The market will determine whether the price is too high (or too low) and the matching of needs between the buyer and seller will determine whether a transaction occurs or not. A third persons interest or concern is meaningless since they were not party to the original transaction and while it may be helpful to gather information for a future transaction of their own that transaction has its own variables such as dissimilar condition or shipping costs, FFL fees, insurance, buyer/seller motivation, discounts based on relationship or region etc. that could be considerably different. As pointed out by MCM above an item is worth what someone will pay for it. Without demanding that every sale reveal every aspect and every detail of the transaction you would be constantly comparing apples to grapefruit. More importantly you would be forcing yourself into another's business dealings which quite frankly are none of your concern regardless of your motivations.

Near as I can tell, even with some glitches, the Classified works well enough as is

 

Regards

 

:FlagAm: :FlagAm: :FlagAm:

 

Gateway Kid

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Sorry Gateway. I was looking at this through the general lense of the Stock Market.

silly me, the freaking stock market is just a ponzie scheme anyway. No reason to care about other transactions at all (sarcasm )

in most cases, I think the asking price is a close enough measure net present value without the spreadsheet detail described.

....and has been pointed out, when it listed for a long time without sale - buyer beware - the seller is just looking for lottery money.

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I don't know how serious this thread is but it would be nice to have a set of guidelines and expectations written down. I understand folks get busy and it can be hard to get by a bank or shipper but I think three days should be enough time to get the payment or product in the mail. Twice in the past year I have had someone tell me they wanted an item and were sending funds. In both instances I had to remind the person two weeks later. The first time I was told the money was in the mail. Then when I contacted them about not getting payment I got a song and dance that the person was getting out of SASS and didn't really want the stuff I had for sale. (Nine months later he's still buying and selling items in the classifieds.) The second time (different person) I was told they just hadn't had time to put money in the mail. Seriously? If you are going to take two weeks before you even send the funds, make sure that's okay first. If you change your mind about a deal, let the person know before they have to contact you wondering where the money went.

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8 minutes ago, T-Square said:

Sorry Gateway. I was looking at this through the general lense of the Stock Market.

silly me, the freaking stock market is just a ponzie scheme anyway. No reason to care about other transactions at all (sarcasm )

in most cases, I think the asking price is a close enough measure net present value without the spreadsheet detail described.

....and has been pointed out, when it listed for a long time without sale - buyer beware - the seller is just looking for lottery money.

In a couple of points I believe you are mistaken.

 

1. A seller may be listing a very custom set of revolvers that have had quite a bit of custom work done on them and his asking price may seem very high to you or others but in actuality his cost for the revolvers and the custom work may exceed his asking price. If he lists them long enough there may be a buyer out there who is looking for just that package. In a few of these I’ve been involved in the seller took quite a hit by listing them for what they did, but eventually the items sold. 
 

2. Some revolvers with short strokes and action work may have more $ tied up in the action work and short strokes than the actual cost of the revolvers.so the seller may be asking what you believe is a high price but in actuality it’s not that way at all.

 

3. Fully tricked out short stroked rifles may be listed at a fairly high price in your eyes but in actuality the seller may be selling it far below what they have invested in it.

 

Fair market value works pretty well here on the Wire. 

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Brevity is the soul of wit.  As it should be with many other areas of the human endeavor.  Sellers sell, buyers buy.

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If I'm selling something or buying something in the Classifieds, I fail to see the need for anyone other than who I'm buying it from or who I'm selling it to, to know my motivations or reasons for any private transaction.

 

In other words, it's none of your business what the final selling/buying price was, terms of transaction or if I'm selling/buying low, fair or high. If you are that concerned about it, I suggest you start your own website with a classified section. That way you can dictate the terms of sale. 

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2 hours ago, Yul Lose said:

Seems to work alright the way it is, IMHO. I’ve bought and sold lots of guns and other stuff without a hitch. I’m just trying to figure out if you’re serious or indeed stirring the pot.

Yep, the only thing I wish is if you sold it post it SOLD!!:D.....nothing to see here.....keep the line moving:wacko::ph34r:

 

2 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Why not just PM the seller, if you must know the price? 

OLG 

Ta Daaaa!!;)

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The only thing that I don't like about the Classified wire is the listing of stuff  that has nothing to do directly with SASS or CAS. I've seen RVs, Houses, Motorcycles, Guitars yata, yata. By the way, I've got a nice used washing machine that has washed my Cowboy cloths, cheap, pickup only, and my brother in law is selling his home in Los Angeles. He has some of my old Chronicles in his garage, so that makes it SASS related. 

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  2 hours ago, Yul Lose said: 

Seems to work alright the way it is, IMHO. I’ve bought and sold lots of guns and other stuff without a hitch. I’m just trying to figure out if you’re serious or indeed stirring the pot.

Yep, the only thing I wish is if you sold it post it SOLD!!:D.....nothing to see here.....keep the line moving:wacko::ph34r:

 

   2 hours ago,  The Original Lumpy Gritz said: 

Why not just PM the seller, if you must know the price? 

OLG 

Ta Daaaa!!;)

 

==================

 

i agree with the above

 

BUT THE PROBLEM, out there that people ignore, is that they enter legally binding contracts when they buy and sell on the Wire Classifieds forum.  Not only that, people work, AND the sell/buy process takes time on both sides to collect information and for each of the participants to understand what the other expects of him, then to put together payment, discuss with FFL and arrange shipment.’

 

The Buyer usually winds up taking all the risk.  That’s not good or acceptable, in my view.  Terms and conditions of sale should be in the offer to sell and be negotiated up and down later.

 

There is a lot more to this, and I will be happy to discuss via regular email with any who wish.  I am dealing with a sass guy right now, who has reneged on a firearms sale.

 

——— Leave the classifieds alone, except there should be processes in place to expose crooks, scammers and deal-breakers who are SASS members.

Edited by Cat Brules
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I make a deal with someone ain't nobodies business what the terms were.

 

Leaving the asking price up with the listing for info purposes may be a kindness and a good research tool, but to require it, or even suggest it is silly.

 

That's the view from my saddle, your may be different, and that's fine, I don't care.

 

 

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"

We would like to remind all members to please be respectful of those members who are attempting to sell items on this forum. Hi-jacking of for sale threads and comments that are not beneficial to the purpose of the post will be deleted. Thank you all for your understanding. "

This, to eliminate the attempt at"saloon forum" style humor and banter that happens in sale posts. Theres already a forum for those who can't stop talking with their fingers... It's already in the guidelines...maybe it just needs to be gold starred.

As far as postings with stupid prices..treat them like those catalogs you get in the mail from J Peterman or LL Bean..something to peruse while sitting on the toilet .

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When I buy an item in the classifieds I always quote the OP’s first post. That way the details remain available even if that post is altered subsequently.

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I don't think it's anyone's business what the final price is. It's between the seller and buyer. No offense but the "suffix" idea is pretty lame.IMHO

 

It works just fine the way it is! :)

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You cant fix something

that is not broken. 

Just Sayin .

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I've had 4 or 5 transactions with SASS members. Yes, you always hope that the other person is fair and honest. So far, everyone I've bought from has been. I hope that the people I've sold to feel the same about me.

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Some classified sites have a button you can hit to mark the ad way over priced...I hate that. If I put a thousand dollars worth of parts and smithing into a rifle that was a thousand dollars, that means I have 2k in that rifle I want 1200 bucks for. Someone uninformed sees my price of 1200 and says "I can get a new one for 1000" and marks it over priced. I say if you dont like a price dont buy it. After all, you gonna contact someone with a first gen colt for sale for 400 and tell them they're too cheap?

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14 hours ago, Grizzly Dave said:

I make a deal with someone ain't nobodies business what the terms were.

 

Leaving the asking price up with the listing for info purposes may be a kindness and a good research tool, but to require it, or even suggest it is silly.

 

That's the view from my saddle, your may be different, and that's fine, I don't care.

 

 

 

GD,

just so we are clear, I don’t care what T’s and C’s (terms and conditions) the buyer and seller come up with.  And, I don’t care what price (included in the T’s and C’s) Buyer/Seller finally arrange.

 

I DO LIKE:   Captain Bill Burt’s tactic of:

When I buy an item in the classifieds I always quote the OP’s first post. That way the details remain available even if that post is altered subsequently.

 

What I do care about are crooked SASS Sellers and Buyers.  

 

I say let those arguments play out.  The forum should not be offering shelter or protection for the dishonest.  Few though they be (and wearing a SASS badge), those types ARE among us!   

 

Cat Brules

 

 

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19 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Deleting price is SOP for many forums.

Why not just PM the seller, if you must know the price? 

OLG 

 

Because it's probably midnight Friday when I'm researching the value of a gun and I don't have time to wait till monday when the seller responds to get what he thinks the price was.  In my case I'm usually going to an auction on sunday when I'm researching gun values on friday night.  I wouldn't expect people to post the final price, but it's nice when they don't delete the original price and all the info.  With our kinda guns, I think the prices in our classifieds (when you can find them) are more reliable than those on gun broker. 

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According to the following Guidelines, I would think that changing the price from that which was posted, would be a no-no.

"CLASSIFIEDS FORUM GUIDELINES:

You must be a registered member to post in the Classifieds. (no Guests)

All items posted for sale must include a price. This is NOT an Auction/bidding site, and linking to

offsite auctions is prohibited. “Make me an offer” with no posted base price is prohibited. If you are

looking for a specific item in trade, then the item/items being sought must be listed in the post.

If your item has sold, or a deal is pending, please edit or delete your post to reflect this. For sale threads

older than 60 days without reply or bump will be removed.

All person-to-person sales must comply with all applicable city, county, state and federal rules and

restrictions.

Firearm sales of any kind IF the seller holds a current FFL (Why? Because determining the difference

between a personal sale and a business sale is impossible)"

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1 hour ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

According to the following Guidelines, I would think that changing the price from that which was posted, would be a no-no.

"CLASSIFIEDS FORUM GUIDELINES:

You must be a registered member to post in the Classifieds. (no Guests)

All items posted for sale must include a price. This is NOT an Auction/bidding site, and linking to

offsite auctions is prohibited. “Make me an offer” with no posted base price is prohibited. If you are

looking for a specific item in trade, then the item/items being sought must be listed in the post.

If your item has sold, or a deal is pending, please edit or delete your post to reflect this. For sale threads

older than 60 days without reply or bump will be removed.

All person-to-person sales must comply with all applicable city, county, state and federal rules and

restrictions.

Firearm sales of any kind IF the seller holds a current FFL (Why? Because determining the difference

between a personal sale and a business sale is impossible)"

The delete your post is the only thing that I'm not a fan of with classifieds. We as users can not actually delete the thread. So people go in and just delete the content in editing. Which is fine I guess but I like to see what the offering was at times. But it doesnt really matter it's just a preference thing for me. Ya know so I can sit here and stew over what a deal I missed out on. 

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Howdy,

Sure there is always  some way to improve most anything.

But the current rules seem pretty good to me.

If some folks have a bad attitude, its hard to write rules to correct attitude.

And I have had computer problems right on top of making a deal.

Its darn hard to tell folks about computer problems if you are having problems.

And sometimes deals don't fall into preset categories.

Common sense? What's that?

Best

CR

 

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As for changing the guidelines, I see no reason for that.

Fortunately, in all the years I've been buying or selling on the Classified Wire, I've only had one deal where I wasn't completely satisfied... and I haven't seen that gentleman on the Wire in long, long, time.

 

I once had a private non-SASS affiliated or approved, "SASS Wire Classified Feedback Forum", that allowed folks to... post feedback, complaints, and compliments.  But, the cost of the web site host kept going up, and up, and I needed more space, because it was a part of the "Old West Action Shooting Gallery" and prices went up accordingly, and it took up too much of my time... *sigh*  I had to let that go.

 

Now I have that all up and running again, but only on Facebook, because it's FREE.  A lot of folks don't do FB and that's fine.  For folks that do, the Cowboy Action Shooting Gallery, the Feedback Forum, "What's The Call", a page for Vendors, that's all back up and running. 

 

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How about separating the WTB from the WTS?  Gets a little confusing with all various threads jumbled together and all the various BTTs to keep a thread on the first page.

 

Maybe harsh, but how about no non-SASS items in the classifieds?  If they are not SASS or SASS side match legal firearms, boots, knives, carts or clothing they really do not belong in the classifieds IMHO. 

Edited by July Smith

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44 minutes ago, July Smith said:

How about separating the WTB from the WTS?  Gets a little confusing with all various threads jumbled together and all the various BTTs to keep a thread on the first page.

 

 

Sorting through wouldn't be hard if people would just put, "For Sale"(FS), "Want to Buy"(WTB), "Want to Trade"(WTT), in the title.  So folks would know, not just a vague item title.  For non-CAS items, put that in the title too, so folks can skip it if they've a mind to.  Folks have bought and sold a fair amount of non-CAS irons on the Classified Wire.  No problem with that.

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17 hours ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

According to the following Guidelines, I would think that changing the price from that which was posted, would be a no-no.

"CLASSIFIEDS FORUM GUIDELINES:

You must be a registered member to post in the Classifieds. (no Guests)

All items posted for sale must include a price. This is NOT an Auction/bidding site, and linking to

offsite auctions is prohibited. “Make me an offer” with no posted base price is prohibited. If you are

looking for a specific item in trade, then the item/items being sought must be listed in the post.

If your item has sold, or a deal is pending, please edit or delete your post to reflect this. For sale threads

older than 60 days without reply or bump will be removed.

All person-to-person sales must comply with all applicable city, county, state and federal rules and

restrictions.

Firearm sales of any kind IF the seller holds a current FFL (Why? Because determining the difference

between a personal sale and a business sale is impossible)"

I don't see anything there that would prohibit me from lowering the price of my unsold goods if I wanted.  It's been a rare day when under any circumstances I've had someone offer me MORE than my asking price, nor does it prohibit me asking $x.xx , "OBO"  (or best offer).  

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27 minutes ago, Griff said:

I don't see anything there that would prohibit me from lowering the price of my unsold goods if I wanted.  It's been a rare day when under any circumstances I've had someone offer me MORE than my asking price, nor does it prohibit me asking $x.xx , "OBO"  (or best offer).  

 

 

22 hours ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

All items posted for sale must include a price. This is NOT an Auction/bidding site, and linking to

offsite auctions is prohibited.

 

"All items posted for sale must include a price. This is NOT an Auction/bidding site, and linking to

offsite auctions is prohibited." OBO is not a price.

 

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3 hours ago, July Smith said:

 

 

Maybe harsh, but how about no non-SASS items in the classifieds?  If they are not SASS or SASS side match legal firearms, boots, knives, carts or clothing they really do not belong in the classifieds IMHO. 

 

Personally, I don't have a problem with non-SASS items for sale in the Classifieds. I may not need a WWII bayonet, an RV, left handed monkey wrench or property in Wyoming but that doesn't mean someone else might be looking for just that very item. If I don't like the title, I ignore and bypass them. YMMV

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22 hours ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

According to the following Guidelines, I would think that changing the price from that which was posted, would be a no-no.

"CLASSIFIEDS FORUM GUIDELINES:

You must be a registered member to post in the Classifieds. (no Guests)

All items posted for sale must include a price. This is NOT an Auction/bidding site, and linking to

offsite auctions is prohibited. “Make me an offer” with no posted base price is prohibited. If you are

looking for a specific item in trade, then the item/items being sought must be listed in the post.

If your item has sold, or a deal is pending, please edit or delete your post to reflect this. For sale threads

older than 60 days without reply or bump will be removed.

All person-to-person sales must comply with all applicable city, county, state and federal rules and

restrictions.

Firearm sales of any kind IF the seller holds a current FFL (Why? Because determining the difference

between a personal sale and a business sale is impossible)"

1 hour ago, Griff said:

I don't see anything there that would prohibit me from lowering the price of my unsold goods if I wanted.  It's been a rare day when under any circumstances I've had someone offer me MORE than my asking price, nor does it prohibit me asking $x.xx , "OBO"  (or best offer).  

41 minutes ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

"All items posted for sale must include a price. This is NOT an Auction/bidding site, and linking to

offsite auctions is prohibited." OBO is not a price.

 

Allie,  where I said "$x.xx" a seller would insert his/her price, the abbreviation "OBO" after the price is short for "or best offer"... That is not an auction, nor is it considered bidding.  It simply indicates a willingness on the part of the seller to negotiate an acceptable price agreeable to both parties.    In the usual course of business it is understood that a lower price can be negotiated.  As compared to the usual meaning of a auction, where buyers are competing to buy the item, usually by offering higher prices than the minimum demanded by the seller.

 

The few times I have purchased something off the Classified, I have seldom paid the full asking price.  And that is really no one's business except the buyer and seller's.  If the SASS Classified charged a fee for use of the site to conduct such sales, then yes, it would be SASS' business also.

 

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