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Utah Bob #35998

And the question of the evening is

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Should Pete Rose be in the Hall of Fame?

;)

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Yes

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Only if Shoeless Joe can go in with him.

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Yes.

 

Full disclosure:  I grew up in Dayton, Ohio and was 10 years old when the Big Red Machine won the first of two World Series. I idolized Pete Rose. 

 

But with the wisdom of maturity, I see his human shortcomings, as I do in all humanity. 

 

Im okay with an asterisk next to his name in Cooperstown, which explains his misdeeds as a manager. 

 

But what he accomplished as a player will never be equalled, and he did it all clean. Not a drop of PEDs in his veins. Pure Hustle all the way. 

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He and Joe Jackson on the same day!!! And none too soon for Jackson!!

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He was probably my least favorite of the Big Red Machine, although I was and am a Reds fan. Having said that, yes, he should be.

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Yes, yes and yes!!!!

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Yes, he should be in the Hall Of Fame.

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1 hour ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

Only if Shoeless Joe can go in with him.

...bit of a difference there - Pete never "threw" a world series...

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1 hour ago, Sagebrush Burns, SASS # 14226 said:

...bit of a difference there - Pete never "threw" a world series...

 

There is a lot of evidence that Shoeless Joe was not part of the conspiracy to throw the World Series.  The book "Eight Men Out" is a work of fiction and contains many inaccuracies as well as omitting a lot of critical evidence that was readily available in the public domain.  Much of what was printed in the papers was pure fabrication. Shoeless Joe was functionally illiterate and did not have the means to hire an independent lawyer to defend him. He successfully sued Comiskey after the commissioner banned him from playing professional ball but the damage had already been done. 

 

Shoeless Joe's estate should have sued Eliot Asinof for defamation of character as his book was highly inaccurate with the addition of characters that did not exist and blatant omissions of facts that cast more than reasonable doubt that Joe was a party to the fix.

 

Even the "Say it ain't so; Joe" quote is a complete fabrication made up by a reporter to sell copy. The actual words were the title to a story written by another reported covering the trial and were never spoken to Joe by anyone especially a child..

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Absolutely!

 

Duffield

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Yes he should. 

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Hell yes 

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Posted (edited)

YES

Edited by Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life

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8 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

There is a lot of evidence that Shoeless Joe was not part of the conspiracy to throw the World Series.  The book "Eight Men Out" is a work of fiction and contains many inaccuracies as well as omitting a lot of critical evidence that was readily available in the public domain.  Much of what was printed in the papers was pure fabrication. Shoeless Joe was functionally illiterate and did not have the means to hire an independent lawyer to defend him. He successfully sued Comiskey after the commissioner banned him from playing professional ball but the damage had already been done. 

 

Shoeless Joe's estate should have sued Eliot Asinof for defamation of character as his book was highly inaccurate with the addition of characters that did not exist and blatant omissions of facts that cast more than reasonable doubt that Joe was a party to the fix.

 

Even the "Say it ain't so; Joe" quote is a complete fabrication made up by a reporter to sell copy. The actual words were the title to a story written by another reported covering the trial and were never spoken to Joe by anyone especially a child..

Interesting information - thank you.

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The hall has a long, well-established history of admitting flawed people, cheaters, and even downright unsavory characters.  There is a murderer and a KKK member in there!

 

Given that precedent, and his on-field performance, there is no way he should remain banned.

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27 minutes ago, Cyrus Cassidy #45437 said:

The hall has a long, well-established history of admitting flawed people, cheaters, and even downright unsavory characters.  There is a murderer and a KKK member in there!

 

Given that precedent, and his on-field performance, there is no way he should remain banned.

Who is the murderer and the kkk guy???

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4 hours ago, Smuteye John SASS#24774 said:

Sure- posthumously.

WHY?

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16 hours ago, Sagebrush Burns, SASS # 14226 said:

Pete never "threw" a world series...

nor did he bet on games he was involved with.  One of the best players EVER - whether you liked him or not.  Let him in.

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8 minutes ago, MizPete said:

nor did he bet on games he was involved with.  One of the best players EVER - whether you liked him or not.  Let him in.

 

You sure about that? I thought part of the problem was betting on the Reds to win while he was manager.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Tyrel Cody said:

 

You sure about that? I thought part of the problem was betting on the Reds to win while he was manager.

I heard that too, and that has always bugged me about the whole deal.  Is he really trying to fix a game if he's betting on his team to win.  I mean, don't most managers "bet" that their team will win at the end of the day.  Technically, every time they hit the dugout, they are laying their potential future employment on the line.

 

In addition, the Hall of Fame is a completely separate entity from MLB, if I understand it correctly, so his admission is based solely on the discretion of the HOF board, not the baseball commissioner.

Edited by Smoky Pistols

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4 minutes ago, Smoky Pistols said:

I heard that too, and that has always bugged me about the whole deal.  Is he really trying to fix a game if he's betting on his team to win.  I mean, don't most managers "bet" that their team will win at the end of the day.  Technically, every time they hit the dugout, they are laying their potential future employment on the line.

 

In addition, the Hall of Fame is a completely separate entity from MLB, if I understand it correctly, so his admission is based solely on the discretion of the HOF board, not the baseball commissioner.

 

The big problem is he had more access to information about the opponents and didn't bet on EVERY game. 

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3 hours ago, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said:

WHY?

Charlie Hustle rightfully deserves to be in the Hall.

 

Pete Rose- who bet on games he was directly involved in either as a manager or player- shouldn't benefit from being in the Hall.

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I would bet no. But my standards are very high so he probably will.

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They should create a section for asterisked players, actually, "they'd be hall of famers except....." kind of thing.

 

What's weird is how times and mores change but we only selectively allow those changes to go backwards in time and then, from my saddle, anyway, only negatively.  America is so politically correct and race based politics so much in the forefront that it is easy as pie to condemn Thomas Jefferson for owning slaves, to condemn Abraham Lincoln for not actually being favorably disposed towards black people, to call Franklin Delano Roosevelt a racist, etc.  Very modern concepts, yes?  So I have to ask, if the Dallas Cowboys can call Winstar Casino its partner https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/nfl/dallas-cowboys/article217918205.html how is it possible that Pete Rose is still denied his place in the Hall of Fame due to gambling (of any kind on any team)?

 

To use a favorite expression, I don't have a dog in this fight, and I don't actually give a flip what the Dallas Cowboys do or don't do, I wouldn't watch them, anyway, or what Cooperstown does or doesn't do.  But to use a sanctimonious concept from decades ago to keep a great ballplayer out of the Hall of Fame when the "no gambling" concept today is dead and buried seems to me to be the height of hypocrisy.

 

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43 minutes ago, Tyrel Cody said:

 

The big problem is he had more access to information about the opponents and didn't bet on EVERY game. 

He had no more information than any good sportswriter had. And often they had more.

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1 hour ago, Tyrel Cody said:

You sure about that?

Well, if you know more than I, then no, I'm not sure.  But how can betting on your own team to win be an issue?  OK, I understand the no betting thing and, basically, I am a rule follower.  But isn't this rule obsolete (or at least unenforced) now?  I don't keep up so much now that Dad has passed.

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Pete's problem stems more from his refusal to admit it I think. A contrite and sincere Mea Culpa probably would have simmered things down a whole bunch.

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