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Lone Dog, SASS #20401

So This is What We Are Reduced To

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Was watching some videos of a recent annual match. Two huge pistol targets side by side and two huge rifle side by side. Double tap (ugh) and triple tap (double yuck) for 20 rounds Say what?? Boring as all get out. Weapon speed function check only. I would not drive across town to shoot that or spectate there.

 

Rifle targets are now way way way too close. The purpose of the rifle is the projection of power over a distance not just to see who can toggle it the fastest. I want at least 5 or even better more rifle targets of different sizes and shapes and not all in the same plane. I do not care how big and close the pistol targets are but at least have 5 different ones of different shapes and not all in the same plane.

 

It is getting to where we may as well just put up one four foot by eight foot piece of steel and see who can empty 'em the fastest. Pitiful...

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Now you know why many folks don't play cowboy anymore. Why do you think I shoot for the "corners". Ok for one stage... but, I prefer a little challenge to my shootin'. Not much mind ya... just a little! Aye GAWD if those folks don't want to use up their allotted time from beep to beep... I WILL! ;):D

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I try when I write stages to put more action in the scenario and sometimes with the fact that especially on pistols you have to use that little nub out there called a front sight. Sure a stand and deliver is alright now and then but not for everytime and every stage.

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Once in a while up close is OK. Some of the faster matches, such as the AZ shoot in Tombstone, are a hoot. I wouldn't want to do it at every match, though.

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I do not experience what you're saying here in Ohio! We have some excellent stages, sweeps and sometimes reloads and bonus targets. If this is just one club that's doing this I suggest you find some new ones???

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That maybe why the Cody-Dixon category is gaining popularity.

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Was watching some videos of a recent annual match. Two huge pistol targets side by side and two huge rifle side by side. Double tap (ugh) and triple tap (double yuck) for 20 rounds Say what?? Boring as all get out. Weapon speed function check only. I would not drive across town to shoot that or spectate there.

 

Rifle targets are now way way way too close. The purpose of the rifle is the projection of power over a distance not just to see who can toggle it the fastest. I want at least 5 or even better more rifle targets of different sizes and shapes and not all in the same plane. I do not care how big and close the pistol targets are but at least have 5 different ones of different shapes and not all in the same plane.

 

It is getting to where we may as well just put up one four foot by eight foot piece of steel and see who can empty 'em the fastest. Pitiful...

So do something about it. Volunteer to write the stages, and set up the match for your clubs next monthly shoot.

It's easy to watch videos and complain.

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I'll do Peanuts and Libations :wacko:

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Was watching some videos of a recent annual match. Two huge pistol targets side by side and two huge rifle side by side. Double tap (ugh) and triple tap (double yuck) for 20 rounds Say what?? Boring as all get out. Weapon speed function check only. I would not drive across town to shoot that or spectate there.

 

Rifle targets are now way way way too close. The purpose of the rifle is the projection of power over a distance not just to see who can toggle it the fastest. I want at least 5 or even better more rifle targets of different sizes and shapes and not all in the same plane. I do not care how big and close the pistol targets are but at least have 5 different ones of different shapes and not all in the same plane.

 

It is getting to where we may as well just put up one four foot by eight foot piece of steel and see who can empty 'em the fastest. Pitiful...

How many clubs do you write matches for?

How much steel do you pull and put away?

 

If you didn't attend said match; "would not drive across town", then why exactly are you complaining about it?

 

I will never fault someone for wanting something "different". But cowboy matches are a free market enterprise. If enough folks want a different product, it will be provided somewhere. If you desire a different product so strongly; nothing stops you from producing it.

 

But until folks either step up within existing clubs and change them or create alternative choices. The club leadership is going to continue offering the product they believe is desired.

 

I'm a club president and match director.

And yes, I am only going to set matches that I will enjoy shooting.

But as soon as my clubs membership tells me they want something different; I will step aside and let someone else steer the ship.

But until then, insults to any clubs match directors,steel placement volunteers or denigration of their matches (especially a match you did not even attend)is...

What's the word you used? Pitiful.

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In just finished the Texas State Match. The Old Fort Parker Patriots are known for big and close targets. But they also offer "Sharpshooter". Shooter shoots main match rifle targets with pistols, and a second set of fairly small rifle targets at roughly twice the distance of the Main Match rifle targets. Definitely requires aiming! Same shotgun targets. I enjoy shooting it. It does mean 1 extra set of targets. But other than that it's pretty easy to offer. I would like to see more clubs offer it, gives something for everybody, big and close for the speed demons, and a challenge for those who prefer that part of the game.

 

Thanks to the Fort Patker Patriots for offering Sharpshooter and for hosting the state match. They did a great job!

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How many clubs do you write matches for?

How much steel do you pull and put away?

 

If you didn't attend said match; "would not drive across town", then why exactly are you complaining about it?

 

I will never fault someone for wanting something "different". But cowboy matches are a free market enterprise. If enough folks want a different product, it will be provided somewhere. If you desire a different product so strongly; nothing stops you from producing it.

 

But until folks either step up within existing clubs and change them or create alternative choices. The club leadership is going to continue offering the product they believe is desired.

 

I'm a club president and match director.

And yes, I am only going to set matches that I will enjoy shooting.

But as soon as my clubs membership tells me they want something different; I will step aside and let someone else steer the ship.

But until then, insults to any clubs match directors,steel placement volunteers or denigration of their matches (especially a match you did not even attend)is...

What's the word you used? Pitiful.

 

I agree. If you don't like it fix it. Besides, I've never seen a target so big it couldn't be missed if you are going fast enough.

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Now you know why many folks don't play cowboy anymore. Why do you think I shoot for the "corners". Ok for one stage... but, I prefer a little challenge to my shootin'. Not much mind ya... just a little! Aye GAWD if those folks don't want to use up their allotted time from beep to beep... I WILL! ;):D

+1

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Thanks.

To all those people who show up early or the day before to drag out hundreds of pounds of steel and paint it for the match. This magical phenomenon happens with a handful of people that get just what you read in my first sentence for their efforts. Maybe we should take sometime to express that we enjoyed the match and maybe even smile too.

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+1

 

 

I guess I must be living in a land of make believe because there are a couple little clubs in Indiana that are absolutely THRIVING. We have lost more pards who have passed on but I guess I'm not seeing the mass exodus that you guys are. This thread is based off of a video that the OP saw on the internet........pot stirring at it's finest. Meanwhile at least two SASS state matches were held this weekend and thousands of CAS shooters enjoyed themselves crossed the country. Get over it guys.

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Was watching some videos of a recent annual match. Two huge pistol targets side by side and two huge rifle side by side. Double tap (ugh) and triple tap (double yuck) for 20 rounds Say what?? Boring as all get out. Weapon speed function check only. I would not drive across town to shoot that or spectate there.

 

Rifle targets are now way way way too close. The purpose of the rifle is the projection of power over a distance not just to see who can toggle it the fastest. I want at least 5 or even better more rifle targets of different sizes and shapes and not all in the same plane. I do not care how big and close the pistol targets are but at least have 5 different ones of different shapes and not all in the same plane.

 

It is getting to where we may as well just put up one four foot by eight foot piece of steel and see who can empty 'em the fastest. Pitiful...

Change to full loads of black powder (no whoosey fillers) & a real big booolite. in 40+cal & 10G shotgun. Tell us how that works for ya, as far as challenge.

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Some may say... "Reduced to".

 

Some say..... "Grew into".

 

 

..........Widder

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It is called meeting the needs of the customers.

 

Do a market test with advertising up front.

 

Three matches in a row with big targets, up close, and simple stage directions,

Then three matches in a row with normal size targets, farther away, pistol and rifle targets with different sequences and movement between each firearm type.

 

Which type match draws more shooters ?

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I guess I must be living in a land of make believe because there are a couple little clubs in Indiana that are absolutely THRIVING. We have lost more pards who have passed on but I guess I'm not seeing the mass exodus that you guys are. This thread is based off of a video that the OP saw on the internet........pot stirring at it's finest. Meanwhile at least two SASS state matches were held this weekend and thousands of CAS shooters enjoyed themselves crossed the country. Get over it guys.

i

 

 

I'm one of the thousands that had a great time. Thank you SASS and all the Match Directors and volunteers that put on matches.

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The numbers speak for themselves

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I do not experience what you're saying here in Ohio! We have some excellent stages, sweeps and sometimes reloads and bonus targets. If this is just one club that's doing this I suggest you find some new ones???

 

 

NOT any clubs I shoot at or would. Commenting on some videos I watched

 

So do something about it. Volunteer to write the stages, and set up the match for your clubs next monthly shoot.

It's easy to watch videos and complain.

 

 

They have never and will never let me write scenarios because they doan wanta have to shoot rifle targets out where they should be or rope steers or crack bullwhips or feed the chickens...

 

How many clubs do you write matches for?

How much steel do you pull and put away?

 

If you didn't attend said match; "would not drive across town", then why exactly are you complaining about it?

 

I will never fault someone for wanting something "different". But cowboy matches are a free market enterprise. If enough folks want a different product, it will be provided somewhere. If you desire a different product so strongly; nothing stops you from producing it.

 

But until folks either step up within existing clubs and change them or create alternative choices. The club leadership is going to continue offering the product they believe is desired.

 

I'm a club president and match director.

And yes, I am only going to set matches that I will enjoy shooting.

But as soon as my clubs membership tells me they want something different; I will step aside and let someone else steer the ship.

But until then, insults to any clubs match directors,steel placement volunteers or denigration of their matches (especially a match you did not even attend)is...

What's the word you used? Pitiful.

 

I will reserve my right to have opinions and express them. I was not denigrating any hard workers or the way any club conducts its business, just lamenting modern trends with which I hate. Notice I did not name the match in the vids. Usually I agree with your comments and will always defend your right to express them. Except when you use my term of pitiful to describe me or any other pard. I used it to express my opinion of current trends not to disparage any one or any club.

 

 

I guess I must be living in a land of make believe because there are a couple little clubs in Indiana that are absolutely THRIVING. We have lost more pards who have passed on but I guess I'm not seeing the mass exodus that you guys are. This thread is based off of a video that the OP saw on the internet........pot stirring at it's finest. Meanwhile at least two SASS state matches were held this weekend and thousands of CAS shooters enjoyed themselves crossed the country. Get over it guys.

 

 

I was not intending to stir any pot just lament current trends. Tho I feared some would take it that way. Oh well...

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Was watching some videos of a recent annual match. Two huge pistol targets side by side and two huge rifle side by side. Double tap (ugh) and triple tap (double yuck) for 20 rounds Say what?? Boring as all get out. Weapon speed function check only. I would not drive across town to shoot that or spectate there.

 

Rifle targets are now way way way too close. The purpose of the rifle is the projection of power over a distance not just to see who can toggle it the fastest. I want at least 5 or even better more rifle targets of different sizes and shapes and not all in the same plane. I do not care how big and close the pistol targets are but at least have 5 different ones of different shapes and not all in the same plane.

 

It is getting to where we may as well just put up one four foot by eight foot piece of steel and see who can empty 'em the fastest. Pitiful...

I suggest you get your local club to put targets at the Maximum SASS recommended distances with SASS recommended size targets and see either how many new shooters come to shoot them or alternatively how many existing shooters leave never to return.

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One man's 'reduced to' is another man's 'improved to'

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LD,

You didnt answer the question. Have you ever volunteered to write the stages and help set the steel for a match your way? You can't just assume they will say no.

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The numbers speak for themselves

 

Right.

 

 

 

NOT any clubs I shoot at or would. Commenting on some videos I watched

 

 

 

They have never and will never let me write scenarios because they doan wanta have to shoot rifle targets out where they should be or rope steers or crack bullwhips or feed the chickens...

 

 

I will reserve my right to have opinions and express them. I was not denigrating any hard workers or the way any club conducts its business, just lamenting modern trends with which I hate. Notice I did not name the match in the vids. Usually I agree with your comments and will always defend your right to express them. Except when you use my term of pitiful to describe me or any other pard. I used it to express my opinion of current trends not to disparage any one or any club.

 

 

I was not intending to stir any pot just lament current trends. Tho I feared some would take it that way. Oh well...

 

Okay let's look at the current trends. Clubs that set targets and scenarios "like they used to" have one of the following things in common: very small participation, are shrinking, or have closed the doors. If you have to pay any rent for your range you're hosed.

 

The best thriving clubs have, at minimum, a nice mix of scenarios, and are thriving for a reason- that reason being that they ARE NOT setting things up like you would. Gold Canyon Kid just hit the nail on the head.....

 

Next shooter.

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I have to say for Creeker (I like his posts and explanations on various topics) for Phantom, Dragon Hill Dave, Cowboy Small guys who write our stages, for those locally I missed, a big huge thank you for your work, diligence, and the hours you put in that no one sees.

From my saddle I can only say I wish I had the energy to shoot an entire match. Not looking for sympathy...just playing the cards I have been dealt. I read some of the gripes on the Wire and think they are worried about X and they still have their health. They don't know how lucky they are. God bless all you cowboys. If you don't like the setup get back in your truck...Jim

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We had fallen into a rut of scenarios that were just a combination of the popular sweeps. Just "Shooter ready, stand by, buzz".

 

Lately we've had stage scenarios written by volunteers that have brought a lot of innovative shooting sequences - as well as a few simple ones. The last match scenarios were written with humorous stories that sagwayed into the line and action to start the timer.

 

And yes, getting 20-24 targets out to set up 4 stages to shoot 6 scenarios is a lot of work. Mary and I go over a couple of days before the match, get out all the targets and paint them and then put them back away. On match day, there are others that also show up early and set up targets and stages. There is usually a fair amount of help cleaning up.

 

The shooters have been complementary of the more creative scenarios. Some may actually appreciate the effort that it takes to set up, run and clean up after a match but I suspect many don't. I think some have an attitude that they paid for the service.

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I guess I must be living in a land of make believe because there are a couple little clubs in Indiana that are absolutely THRIVING. We have lost more pards who have passed on but I guess I'm not seeing the mass exodus that you guys are. This thread is based off of a video that the OP saw on the internet........pot stirring at it's finest. Meanwhile at least two SASS state matches were held this weekend and thousands of CAS shooters enjoyed themselves crossed the country. Get over it guys.

With a long view to this, I know at least a hundred local folks that moved to other shooting sports, mostly citing lack of shooting challenge, speed as the only thing that counts, highly modified guns. And the majority of these weren't middle of the pack shooters, these were champions, folks that were, in some cases, at the top of their game. It ain't been any "mass exodus", but in ones or two, they just seem to drift off. In ten years, you'll see what I mean... If you're still playing.

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Howdy,

I spent part of today at a mounted cowboy action match.

Maybe pards need to see one of these?

 

How about some 50 yard rifle targets?

Can you see 50 yards?

Best

CR

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I suggest you get your local club to put targets at the Maximum SASS recommended distances with SASS recommended size targets and see either how many new shooters come to shoot them or alternatively how many existing shooters leave never to return.

 

 

Some years back a new regime took over. Folks take umbrage at the appellation of gamer. So let's instead refer to them as the Fast Togglers who care not one whit for any marksmanship with the rifle but only toggling it as fast as humanly possible. They moved ALL the rifle targets to this side of the creek with the pistol targets. Not half, but all of them. Without so much as asking any of us old salts who been here 20 years our opinion or a by your leave. Oh, it will increase attendance they claimed. The opposite has been true. Not only did not one new shooter come in to the club, but several of the old crowd got so po'ed they have never been back.

 

One man's 'reduced to' is another man's 'improved to'

 

Ha ha yeah. Let us just go ahead and improve to the one big sheet of steel like I suggested instead of having to go back and forth between two targets just a toggling and dumping to beat the band. I notice NO one has said anything about that recommendation. It is the elephant in the room. So why not say anything about the suggestion? Because they know 2 rifle and 2 pistol giant too close targets per stage is pushing it and pushing it too far. Many years ago when this trend began to proliferate and accelerate I felt sure the pendulum would soon reach its outer limit and begin to swing back. Hasn't yet. Maybe it never will. And dinosaurs like me will go ahead and go extinct. I just cannot comprehend why oh why are folks so enamored of double and triple tapping and (horrors) dumping rounds. I hate double taps, despise triple taps and any more than that is abominable. If I shoot a target it is dead let me move on to another hopefully of a different shape at a different distance and not in the same plane. The modern game yes is reduced to extreme boredom and certainly no improvement on the interesting shoots we used to enjoy.

 

LD,

You didnt answer the question. Have you ever volunteered to write the stages and help set the steel for a match your way? You can't just assume they will say no.

 

 

I most assuredly DID answer the question. They are not about to let me. They doan wanta carry the egg in the tablespoon thru the swinging doors of the saloon and drop it in the beer mug. We have an ore cart. Mighty fun to ride as it rolls back and forth after jerking the chock and letting it run down the rails. The gam.. er I mean the rapid togglers refuse to ride it. Give 'em a SOG I sez. Aghast oh mercy no we cain't do that they might not come back.

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Howdy,

I spent part of today at a mounted cowboy action match.

Maybe pards need to see one of these?

 

How about some 50 yard rifle targets?

Can you see 50 yards?

Best

CR

 

 

When I started this month of May 96 we had rifle targets strung out along the west boundary road at the westmost stage The Saloon from about 10 yards to about 75 yards. Great fun, much more so than the machine gun toggling that goes on nowadays

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It is called meeting the needs of the customers...

IMHO you nailed it when you used the term Customers. Kind of like the neighborhood kids getting together to play ball and then some turned the game into a business for the revenue.

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Somebody mentioned numbers... well... I can go with that and IMO most of the members want a mix in the match they shoot. No doubt that over the years targets have moved in and grown in size. It is important to note that every match in the game is NOT like Border Town... in fact most of them are not. Border Town has developed their own specialty that has become a virtual trademark for them. Folks know what to expect and they come from near and far to enjoy that special venue once a year. A few clubs have tried to copy them, but for the most part the mainstay of CAS are the clubs that use a good mix in their setup.

 

Snakebite

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go to Winter RAnge!!! a very good mix of target ranges, and target sizes. it runs the gamet from run and gun to you best find your sights real quickly!!!!

 

Excellent stages with some fun written in and second to none props and match officials!!

 

I love the pop can flyer!!!!!

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IMHO you nailed it when you used the term Customers. Kind of like the neighborhood kids getting together to play ball and then some turned the game into a business for the revenue.

Our shooters are our customers. That is exactly the right word and the right mindset. As a provider of a product; one that I am asking them to pay for and give up their time to participate in. I better deliver the product they wish to consume. As many match directors and events have learned; when you fail to satisfy your customers... You will fail.

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