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Lone Dog, SASS #20401

So This is What We Are Reduced To

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Simple

 

It is a club level issue to decide target distance and size. Period.

 

If local clubs do not offer the target arrangement you wish, and they still don't after voicing opinion, then expand your travel radius for other clubs.

 

If one has the notion of traveling to distant shoots, then scout the clubs out to see if they offer what you desire.

 

The larger the shoot, the more simple and vanella the match is. To the point of 2 minutes from beep-to-beep. Which is OK for what it is and to be expected.

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Most people you ask will say that they like a variety of both big and close and "a little more challenging" targets, rifle targets in particular. How challenging should it be is the question.

 

I've found that with rifle targets, if you use a 12" circular plate at more than 12 yards, the complaints start to roll in. Larger rectangles like our 16x24" plates can be set out to 15 or 20 yards without too much grousing.

 

Why then do we set up a single plane of large targets to be shot with both rifle and pistils? It's easy!

 

Instead of two sets of targets to set up and tear down per stage; you've only got one set. Multiply by five or six and you've got a lot of work that's been avoided by eliminating some of the targets.

 

Folks, around here anyway, like to get the scores and awards immediately after the match. If tear down takes too long, there are many complaints or more likely, folks just leave and skip the awards. If you do the awards before tear down, you forego a lot of the help. So you make it easy.

 

Whatever the range and target size though, what can be a killer for the match is to have "mind game" scenarios like complicated sweeps or sequences similar but different for pistols or rifle. No one wants procedurals no matter how fast you go.

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Here is another rational for big, close rifle targets.

 

We are not using long range rifles! Even in the 19th Century when '73 Winchesters were new, they were pistol caliber, high capacity weapons. Kind of like modern day sub-guns or assault carbines. Wouldn't it make sense to use such weapons at closer ranges against multiple targets?

 

Back in the day they had fine long range weapons in heavy calibers. But they are not very good at hitting multiple targets at close or medium ranges in short periods of time.

 

Whether pistol caliber rifles were used back in the day as "assault" rifles, I don't know. I do know that in today's world, sub-guns and pistol caliber carbines are used in close range, multiple target scenarios.

 

I'd suggest that only the weapons have changed over the last century and a half, not the people. (And the weapons not all that much either!)

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Whatever the range and target size though, what can be a killer for the match is to have "mind game" scenarios like complicated sweeps or sequences similar but different for pistols or rifle. No one wants procedurals no matter how you go.

 

+1

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Simple

 

It is a club level issue to decide target distance and size. Period.

 

If local clubs do not offer the target arrangement you wish, and they still don't after voicing opinion, then expand your travel radius for other clubs.

 

If one has the notion of traveling to distant shoots, then scout the clubs out to see if they offer what you desire.

 

The larger the shoot, the more simple and vanella the match is. To the point of 2 minutes from beep-to-beep. Which is OK for what it is and to be expected.

Lone Dog can pontificate all he wants but it is the local club match director that dictates how targets are to be placed. Good match directors do what their customers want to keep them coming back. It is Lone Dog's feeling that loss of SASS members is because of bigger rifle targets at closer distances. He has zero proof of this. A better case can be made that a lot more folks are supporting clubs with larger targets set at distances for rifle closer to the SASS minimum and not the SASS maximum.

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Lone Dog can pontificate all he wants but it is the local club match director that dictates how targets are to be placed. Good match directors do what their customers want to keep them coming back. It is Lone Dog's feeling that loss of SASS members is because of bigger rifle targets at closer distances. He has zero proof of this. A better case can be made that a lot more folks are supporting clubs with larger targets set at distances for rifle closer to the SASS minimum and not the SASS maximum.

Don't know why you are replying to me for.

 

You haven't added anything new to the discussion.

 

LD has stirred the pot and has got numerous viewings and several posting on a frequent but old topic. Nothing has or will change, and that is OK too. Congratulations LD for getting the dogs off the porch for a nice chase. :lol:

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I might be goin' out on a limb here, but I'm willin' to bet ol' LD ain't got any heartburn over the following... (even maybe upscaling target size as they approach those "max" ranges.

Metal and paper targets of generous size are used. Reactive targets such as pepper poppers and falling plates are used when practical to enhance shooter feedback and spectator appeal. Targets are set at close to medium range. There are no absolute rules, but we suggest the following distances, by firearm, if using a target approximately 16" X 16":

Revolver – 7 to 10 yards - Shotgun – 8 to 16 yards - Rifle – 13 to 50 yards

But having lifesize, or nearly so, targets up in your face is a might different, don't y'all think?

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I have yet to find a match where if my choices were shoot that match or don't shoot I would choose don't shoot. I have shot a few that made me willing to drive an hour or so more to shoot somewhere else.

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One more time. I did not start this thread to stir any pots or get anyone's dander up. The issue is not a dead horse by any means. In fact it is the number one issue we face. Either the pendulum starts to swing back to the way it was in our heyday and pards come back a grinnin' or start up a grinnin' or it continues to swing away from that and more and more into the new way and the sport dies. I have aplenty of anecdotal evidence of why this is so by talking to many aplenty of the folks who stay home now and ain't ever comin' back out to fast toggle on two target stages where "sights just slow " ya down.

 

That is the facts of the business. Denial is not just a river in Egypt...

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I’m not sure if my opinions/observations will have any weight in this discussion, but I’ll throw them out to be (probably) shot down anyway.


I’m a slightly older, lifetime Colt SAA shooter, but brand new to SASS. I joined primarily because I was looking for a venue to shoot my SAAs other than just punching paper. I live in SoCal, and the days of being able to head to the mountains or out into the desert for a relaxed afternoon of informal shooting are decades gone. So for me, some of the appeal of SASS is that it offers some variety, reactive targets, classic period (or repo) guns, and some camaraderie.


But I have absolutely no interest in the speed aspect of the game, or the race preped, highly modified guns that I see commonly used, that bear little resemblance to the actual guns of the period. The fascination for speed at the expense of everything else escapes me. The game for me would be much more interesting if there was some consideration given to shooting skills other than how fast someone could work the lever on their 73 or 66, or dump the rounds in their Rugers. If speed is the primary goal, how about at least tempering it with some accuracy requirements?


After reading through all of this thread, it appears that I may not be a great fit with the current structure of the game, but I’ll stay involved, because it’s the best option available to me. I have several friends that would also be interested if the game was something other than it currently is, so I know it not just me who would like the challenge to be other than just speed and close targets.


Right now it kind of seems like we’re shooting at the broad side of the barn, I just hope that we don’t soon move inside the barn with no possibility of a miss.


These are thoughts from someone brand new to the sport, so take them for what they’re worth. And I will be voicing my opinions to the match directors as I gain experience in this game.


Best regards,

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Im not sure if my opinions/observations will have any weight in this discussion, but Ill throw them out to be (probably) shot down anyway.

 

Im a slightly older, lifetime Colt SAA shooter, but brand new to SASS. I joined primarily because I was looking for a venue to shoot my SAAs other than just punching paper. I live in SoCal, and the days of being able to head to the mountains or out into the desert for a relaxed afternoon of informal shooting are decades gone. So for me, some of the appeal of SASS is that it offers some variety, reactive targets, classic period (or repo) guns, and some camaraderie.

 

But I have absolutely no interest in the speed aspect of the game, or the race preped, highly modified guns that I see commonly used, that bear little resemblance to the actual guns of the period. The fascination for speed at the expense of everything else escapes me. The game for me would be much more interesting if there was some consideration given to shooting skills other than how fast someone could work the lever on their 73 or 66, or dump the rounds in their Rugers. If speed is the primary goal, how about at least tempering it with some accuracy requirements?

 

After reading through all of this thread, it appears that I may not be a great fit with the current structure of the game, but Ill stay involved, because its the best option available to me. I have several friends that would also be interested if the game was something other than it currently is, so I know it not just me who would like the challenge to be other than just speed and close targets.

 

Right now it kind of seems like were shooting at the broad side of the barn, I just hope that we dont soon move inside the barn with no possibility of a miss.

 

These are thoughts from someone brand new to the sport, so take them for what theyre worth. And I will be voicing my opinions to the match directors as I gain experience in this game.

 

Best regards,

Howdy,

 

If your home club is small, ask them if you can shoot the stage a bit different, more to your liking, for no official score, but you are still interested in stage time, misses and P's,,, but you are not in the hunt for award. Or just inform them you will gladly take the P for each stage shot out of order. I personally would not mind someone requesting this.

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I’m not sure if my opinions/observations will have any weight in this discussion, but I’ll throw them out to be (probably) shot down anyway.
I’m a slightly older, lifetime Colt SAA shooter, but brand new to SASS. I joined primarily because I was looking for a venue to shoot my SAAs other than just punching paper. I live in SoCal, and the days of being able to head to the mountains or out into the desert for a relaxed afternoon of informal shooting are decades gone. So for me, some of the appeal of SASS is that it offers some variety, reactive targets, classic period (or repo) guns, and some camaraderie.
But I have absolutely no interest in the speed aspect of the game, or the race preped, highly modified guns that I see commonly used, that bear little resemblance to the actual guns of the period. The fascination for speed at the expense of everything else escapes me. The game for me would be much more interesting if there was some consideration given to shooting skills other than how fast someone could work the lever on their 73 or 66, or dump the rounds in their Rugers. If speed is the primary goal, how about at least tempering it with some accuracy requirements?
After reading through all of this thread, it appears that I may not be a great fit with the current structure of the game, but I’ll stay involved, because it’s the best option available to me. I have several friends that would also be interested if the game was something other than it currently is, so I know it not just me who would like the challenge to be other than just speed and close targets.
Right now it kind of seems like we’re shooting at the broad side of the barn, I just hope that we don’t soon move inside the barn with no possibility of a miss.
These are thoughts from someone brand new to the sport, so take them for what they’re worth. And I will be voicing my opinions to the match directors as I gain experience in this game.
Best regards,

 

Three things:

 

1. External modifications aren't allowed, so exactly what guns are you seeing people shoot that 'bear little resemblance to the actual guns of the period'?

 

2. The fast shooters I know work hard to get that way. It's definitely an insult to all our champions to characterize what they do as simply how fast they can work the lever and dump rounds from their pistols. You try to hit 12 different targets with 24 rounds out of four guns in less than 12 seconds, I saw that done this weekend and it took a lot of natural skill and practice to get there.

 

3. There is absolutely no empirical evidence behind what LD is saying. He's stating his opinion as if it were fact, which it is not.

 

At our Doc Holliday's match in June we will be shooting at a clay, with our pistols, at six-eight yards. Does that require accuracy?

 

Glad you joined us, keep voicing your opinion. Better yet, travel to a few matches, you might be surprised. It's a big tent, I would like to think there's room for all.

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Monsai52,

Please keep in mind it is YOU who make the challenge you want. Before the match, with permission of course, go down range and put a 2" circle in the center of each target, or whatever, and then tell your posse to count all shots outside circles as misses. Shoot Cowboys in the head, etc. you and your buddies who want the same kind of challenge can kibitz each other, make friendly wagers, etc., to make the game interesting for you.

 

Don't just be an unhappy follower...

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One more time. I did not start this thread to stir any pots or get anyone's dander up. The issue is not a dead horse by any means. In fact it is the number one issue we face. Either the pendulum starts to swing back to the way it was in our heyday and pards come back a grinnin' or start up a grinnin' or it continues to swing away from that and more and more into the new way and the sport dies. I have aplenty of anecdotal evidence of why this is so by talking to many aplenty of the folks who stay home now and ain't ever comin' back out to fast toggle on two target stages where "sights just slow " ya down.

 

That is the facts of the business. Denial is not just a river in Egypt...

Perhaps attendance is down in your area, but our attendance is up! And we have many new shooters that are enjoying hitable targets! It is not uncommon for us to see 90 shooters in the dead of summer! Up from the 15 shooters when the match was as you say, "The way it was!"

 

Did you watch video of the rest of the match? If you had, you might have realized that there were quite a few scenarios that aren't seen regularly around here. I thought the stage scenarios at said match were well written and offered a variety of different challenges.

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"After reading through all of this thread, it appears that I may not be a great fit with the current structure of the game, but I’ll stay involved, because it’s the best option available to me."

 

 

If you are able to shoot a stage at a speed comfortable to you and you enjoy it, you ARE a perfect fit. Shoot the game you enjoy - there are plenty of shooters doing exactly that !

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Three things:

 

1. External modifications aren't allowed, so exactly what guns are you seeing people shoot that 'bear little resemblance to the actual guns of the period'?

 

I used the word resemblance, not appearance, which encompasses the nature of an item, not just how it looks.

 

2. The fast shooters I know work hard to get that way. It's definitely an insult to all our champions to characterize what they do as simply how fast they can work the lever and dump rounds from their pistols. You try to hit 12 different targets with 24 rounds out of four guns in less than 12 seconds, I saw that done this weekend and it took a lot of natural skill and practice to get there.

 

I meant no insult to anyone, and I can appreciate how much works goes into shooting this quickly, but this goes directly to the point I was making re: testing skills other than just going fast.

 

3. There is absolutely no empirical evidence behind what LD is saying. He's stating his opinion as if it were fact, which it is not.

 

Empirical evidence is based upon experimentation or observation, so it seems that LD has used empirical evidence, based upon his observations, to express his opinion. Now whether or not his evidence is sufficient to support the conclusion he is expressing in his opinion is another matter.

 

At our Doc Holliday's match in June we will be shooting at a clay, with our pistols, at six-eight yards. Does that require accuracy?

 

Glad you joined us, keep voicing your opinion. Better yet, travel to a few matches, you might be surprised. It's a big tent, I would like to think there's room for all.

 

That's what I'm doing, I am just expressing my own opinions and preferences, and am only throwing them out here as data points from a new member to include in the discussion on the nature of the changes in the game.

 

Best regards,

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Monsai52,

Please keep in mind it is YOU who make the challenge you want. Before the match, with permission of course, go down range and put a 2" circle in the center of each target, or whatever, and then tell your posse to count all shots outside circles as misses. Shoot Cowboys in the head, etc. you and your buddies who want the same kind of challenge can kibitz each other, make friendly wagers, etc., to make the game interesting for you.

 

Don't just be an unhappy follower...

 

 

Thanks for the suggestions, those are good ideas. And BTW, I'm not an unhappy follower, I'm happy to be involved, it's just that there is more that I would like the game to be. But then most things in life are compromises and balances between our own needs and desires, and those of others.

 

Best regards,

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"After reading through all of this thread, it appears that I may not be a great fit with the current structure of the game, but I’ll stay involved, because it’s the best option available to me."

 

 

If you are able to shoot a stage at a speed comfortable to you and you enjoy it, you ARE a perfect fit. Shoot the game you enjoy - there are plenty of shooters doing exactly that !

 

+1 on that!

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This all makes my head hurt -

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I don't agree with the "Clean Match" percentage idea. If there were a lot of misses, then it may have been too difficult, but if folks only had one or two misses it doesn't mean that the match was too hard. Our Annual Match had Zero Clean shooters... it RARELY has any Clean Shooters, yet the match in general is not difficult, and everyone loves it and comes back year after year. Our Ore Cart eats everyone's Lunch. It is hard to shoot the 4' by 4' targets while bouncing down the rail in the Ore Cart. Anyone can do it if they want... all they have to do is wait for the Cart to stop, and then shoot the targets which by this time, are right in their face..... but, NOBODY has ever chosen to do that.. they choose to Play the Game, and in doing so... they usually sacrifice their Clean Match. I heard a lot of Crying about the number of Clean Matches at WR.... it was a GREAT match and was certainly not too difficult. Folks usually miss targets because they are going too fast. Learning to judge things is part of the game.

 

Snakebite

I'm going to come down and shoot with you one of these days. Riding and shooting in an ore cart sounds like way too much fun to pass up

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I'm going to come down and shoot with you one of these days. Riding and shooting in an ore cart sounds like way too much fun to pass up

Firelands club up in Ohio had a buckboard sitting on 4 coil springs that had plenty of volunteers ready to set it in motion as soon as the buzzer went off. Found out who your friends were in a hurry ! :o:D :D

It was a bunch of fun.

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Never mind.

 

Snakebite

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One of the local clubs has a category called Maverick. Shooters in that category shoot at targets which are much farther away than the rest of the shooters. Last month the club had 77 shooters, 7 of whom shot Maverick.

We offer it and call it "Sharpshooter". Rifle targets are shot with pistols, and either an extra set of rifle targets are added or a more distant starting position with the rifle. Shotgun at normal distance. There are options out there, have a talk with the MD....Good Luck :)

 

Jefro :ph34r: Relax-Enjoy

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We offer it and call it "Sharpshooter". Rifle targets are shot with pistols, and either an extra set of rifle targets are added or a more distant starting position with the rifle. Shotgun at normal distance. There are options out there, have a talk with the MD....Good Luck :)

 

Jefro :ph34r: Relax-Enjoy

I was simply mentioning it as an example of farther targets being available and not being utilized. I have no desire to shoot those distances. 6-8 and 10-14 work fine for me, with an occasional single far target or really small one. Of course those little animal targets you can shoot off a shelf are fun too.

 

Don't forget the Texas Star, that takes a bit of accuracy. I shot one a while back that was mounted on a railroad car and rolled downhill towards you while it was spinning. That was a hoot, took a bit of accuracy too.

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Firelands club up in Ohio had a buckboard sitting on 4 coil springs that had plenty of volunteers ready to set it in motion as soon as the buzzer went off. Found out who your friends were in a hurry ! :o:D :D

It was a bunch of fun.

I have experienced something similar to that before, and you are correct haha

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Three things:

 

1. External modifications aren't allowed, so exactly what guns are you seeing people shoot that 'bear little resemblance to the actual guns of the period'?

 

2. The fast shooters I know work hard to get that way. It's definitely an insult to all our champions to characterize what they do as simply how fast they can work the lever and dump rounds from their pistols. You try to hit 12 different targets with 24 rounds out of four guns in less than 12 seconds, I saw that done this weekend and it took a lot of natural skill and practice to get there.

 

3. There is absolutely no empirical evidence behind what LD is saying. He's stating his opinion as if it were fact, which it is not.

 

At our Doc Holliday's match in June we will be shooting at a clay, with our pistols, at six-eight yards. Does that require accuracy?

 

Glad you joined us, keep voicing your opinion. Better yet, travel to a few matches, you might be surprised. It's a big tent, I would like to think there's room for all.

 

2. Very very true sir. The hot shoes I know, including some world champs, work very hard. They shoot and practice every chance they get and they dry fire for hours on end. I am too lazy for that much dedication.

3. There is tons of evidence. It is the truth for me and many others. The death spiral of the game is number 1.

 

As I stated in a prior post, our fastest local shooter can put a 38 hole in a stationary clay bird sitting in u shaped bracket on a tall stand every time at any distance. I never said the fastest of us are not also very very accurate. They have to be.

 

 

Perhaps attendance is down in your area, but our attendance is up! And we have many new shooters that are enjoying hitable targets! It is not uncommon for us to see 90 shooters in the dead of summer! Up from the 15 shooters when the match was as you say, "The way it was!"

 

Did you watch video of the rest of the match? If you had, you might have realized that there were quite a few scenarios that aren't seen regularly around here. I thought the stage scenarios at said match were well written and offered a variety of different challenges.

 

What match? I never said what match it was nor does it matter what specific match the vids were from. The concern is the general drift away from our basic roots to a paradigm unwelcome to many of us

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I'm pretty new to this game, so still learning. Have no idea what "the game used to be." I do know that of the 4 local clubs where I shoot, there is good variety. The folks writing the matches are both creative and consistent. One club tends toward big and close, another has a mix, a third has some distance for the rifle targets and smaller pistol targets. Every match seems to have a mix of simple stages, and more complex sequences. Some stand and deliver and some with lots of movement. Some with prescribed sequences, some with "engage the five targets." Texas star, bells, poppers, small bonus target with a reload, etc. Not every match, but often enough to add variety.

 

I guess I don't know any better, but it's all good with me.

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Never mind.

 

Snakebite

 

 

I've had the same thoughts for 3 pages..... :)

 

Besides, I didn't want to say anything to be quoted on..... :o

 

 

..........Widder

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yadda some other stuff....

 

So throwing a virgin into the volcano probably didn't stop it from erupting.

 

 

It won't stop the erupting but it sure would draw a crowd! :o

 

+1 Don't complain if you ain't willing to do it better.

Or the match director can write down the complaints all year and then put on a match where the 6 most complained about stages are all in that one match....like our Evil Bob match.....making lemonade with the lemons provided! :P

 

The old adage says “You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time." It's just that way.
Kajun

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Was watching some videos of a recent annual match. Two huge pistol targets side by side and two huge rifle side by side. Double tap (ugh) and triple tap (double yuck) for 20 rounds Say what?? Boring as all get out. Weapon speed function check only. I would not drive across town to shoot that or spectate there.

 

Rifle targets are now way way way too close. The purpose of the rifle is the projection of power over a distance not just to see who can toggle it the fastest. I want at least 5 or even better more rifle targets of different sizes and shapes and not all in the same plane. I do not care how big and close the pistol targets are but at least have 5 different ones of different shapes and not all in the same plane.

 

It is getting to where we may as well just put up one four foot by eight foot piece of steel and see who can empty 'em the fastest. Pitiful...

After all this discussion, I am doubting a match was shot as you state. Can you provide a link to that video. If this video exists, was it one stage only out of maybe a dozen stages for variety? Heck I shot one major match a few years ago that had a full size buffalo 5 yards from the firing line to put all shots on and I got a penalty for shooting guns out of order. That was the only stage in the match with up close targets. As far as the purpose of a rifle in our sport being the projection of power over a distance, I can not find that anywhere in the SASS handbooks, can you? Since you are so good at looking at videos, I suggest you look at the videos or even still shots of the Winter Range stages. You will usually find 5 rifle targets of different shapes, sizes, heights, and distances. Perhaps you might attend that wonderful shoot and be thrilled.

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The old adage says “You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time." It's just that way.

 

I thought it was:

 

“You can fool some of the people all of the time, you can fool all of the people some of the time, but you can’t fool Mom." :D :D :D :D

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Three things:

 

1. External modifications aren't allowed, so exactly what guns are you seeing people shoot that 'bear little resemblance to the actual guns of the period'?

 

Some of the sights and sleeves are approaching "competition only" waters and may be even external modification IN MY OPINION. IN FACT, they are ALLOWED by the rules and that's ACCEPTED. When someone looks at your pistol and says, "Hey wait a minute what's that on the front?", that's an indication of something to me.

 

Looking at your guns and honestly assessing what else could really be done with them besides one specific competition will tell you how competition only they really are. I probably wouldn't take my Codymatic deer hunting with its grabber front sight and filed down rear sight and cowboy special carrier. Also could you imagine trying to pick ten or more pieces of short brass out of the leaves???😁😁😁 That would drive me nuts. One of the pistols with the big front sight might be good for driving deer in places where they'd jump really close in tight brush.

I've had the same thoughts for 3 pages..... :)

 

Besides, I didn't want to say anything to be quoted on..... :o

 

 

..........Widder

Me neither, but unlike you, I was unable to help myself....😂😂

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What match? I never said what match it was nor does it matter what specific match the vids were from. The concern is the general drift away from our basic roots to a paradigm unwelcome to many of us

Context clues :ph34r:

 

You are from Texas, there were two major matches in Texas recently, you have friends at those matches, both has a 3,2,2,3, and videos were shot at both. It was an educated guess.

 

And if its doesn't matter what match, why do you keep referencing it?

 

 

Good shooters can put 10 rounds on far targets fast too! I've seen it done, 10 rds on a 16" target at 50 yards in 3.75 seconds, and the grouping was about 6". Fact is THAT is not what the majority of shooters want, otherwise the clubs that are small and far would be growing and they are not. Those clubs get referred to by shooters with phrases like, "Not going there again!" or "Made that mistake once!" or "why the hell would anyone want to do that!" or "Gave it one more shot, but I won't be back!" we have those clubs around here, they get the same 20 to 25 shooters every month.

 

The reality is the clubs that have a good variety, leaning towards big and close, with varying scenarios month to month to keep it fresh are the healthiest clubs! You can see them draw 90+ for a monthly!

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Well I shot my First Winter Range this year. and I found the targets to be a pleasing mix in placement and size !!!

I also liked the start from either end , choice of guns use to start stage and I really liked smoking up the inside of one stage

causing folks to flee...

 

Overall the Main Match was a very well run Match ...

 

What I did Not like was how WB was given Premier Status , with about 43 shooters and a seemingly endless number of very nice

prizes ( did anyone not get one)... I my opinion WB was accorded far and away more resources than the very limited numbers should allow...

 

There were more Shooters in the Long Range Pistol Caliber Rifle SIDE MATCH than all of WB (Yes WB is a SIDE Match), and prises were only 5 deep TOTAL with no sub class even for Black Powder... Futher in my Opinion WB is NOT Cowboy ...

I feel that having a chance to take a few shots ( Open Pratice range ) with my Cowboy Longrange guns after traveling 1,765 miles and a drop of some 2,600 feet in elevation is far more desirable than having the

range tied-up due to a WB match ...

I did not shoot two of my very best side match guns at all !!!

And they are COWBOY guns ... I would have really liked WR far better had there been a place to check my

REAL LONG RANGE GUNS !!!

 

As it was I only shot the One logrange event and placed 6th. using full case loads of 3f in a 92 rifle, top Black Powder Shooter to the best of my understanding .... And heaven forbid No short Stroke ...

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

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