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Lone Dog, SASS #20401

So This is What We Are Reduced To

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What match? I never said what match it was nor does it matter what specific match the vids were from. The concern is the general drift away from our basic roots to a paradigm unwelcome to many of us

It does matter, since some of us clearly do not believe what you saw nor believe that was representative of the whole match.

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Well I shot my First Winter Range this year. and I found the targets to be a pleasing mix in placement and size !!!

I also liked the start from either end , choice of guns use to start stage and I really liked smoking up the inside of one stage

causing folks to flee...

 

Overall the Main Match was a very well run Match ...

 

What I did Not like was how WB was given Premier Status , with about 43 shooters and a seemingly endless number of very nice

prizes ( did anyone not get one)... I my opinion WB was accorded far and away more resources than the very limited numbers should allow...

 

There were more Shooters in the Long Range Pistol Caliber Rifle SIDE MATCH than all of WB (Yes WB is a SIDE Match), and prises were only 5 deep TOTAL with no sub class even for Black Powder... Futher in my Opinion WB is NOT Cowboy ...

I feel that having a chance to take a few shots ( Open Pratice range ) with my Cowboy Longrange guns after traveling 1,765 miles and a drop of some 2,600 feet in elevation is far more desirable than having the

range tied-up due to a WB match ...

I did not shoot two of my very best side match guns at all !!!

And they are COWBOY guns ... I would have really liked WR far better had there been a place to check my

REAL LONG RANGE GUNS !!!

 

As it was I only shot the One logrange event and placed 6th. using full case loads of 3f in a 92 rifle, top Black Powder Shooter to the best of my understanding .... And heaven forbid No short Stroke ...

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

You might want to check your facts, or lack there of. There were 117 shooters who finished Wild Bunch at Winter Range. And quite a few who didn't get an award, if that is what you were referring to when you said prizes. WBAS is not a side match. Have you tried it?

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You might want to check your facts, or lack there of. There were 117 shooters who finished Wild Bunch at Winter Range. And quite a few who didn't get an award, if that is what you were referring to when you said prizes. WBAS is not a side match. Have you tried it?

No, once SASS TGs were excluded from rules review and oversight and the 38/357 rifles were excluded, I like many others opted out. I had even purchased all the gear and a nice new 1911 and new leather. Gave it all away to my son.

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Context clues :ph34r:

 

You are from Texas, there were two major matches in Texas recently, you have friends at those matches, both has a 3,2,2,3, and videos were shot at both. It was an educated guess.

 

And if its doesn't matter what match, why do you keep referencing it?

 

 

Good shooters can put 10 rounds on far targets fast too! I've seen it done, 10 rds on a 16" target at 50 yards in 3.75 seconds, and the grouping was about 6". Fact is THAT is not what the majority of shooters want, otherwise the clubs that are small and far would be growing and they are not. Those clubs get referred to by shooters with phrases like, "Not going there again!" or "Made that mistake once!" or "why the hell would anyone want to do that!" or "Gave it one more shot, but I won't be back!" we have those clubs around here, they get the same 20 to 25 shooters every month.

 

The reality is the clubs that have a good variety, leaning towards big and close, with varying scenarios month to month to keep it fresh are the healthiest clubs! You can see them draw 90+ for a monthly!

 

Looks like everyone joining this dog-pile now is calling for Lone Dog to provide video proof of everything he references, how about making everyone provide video proof or web links to everything they say? Do you happen to have a video of this particular feat? I'm not saying I don't believe it since it's quite possible, I would just like to see it since it's not your typical speed shooter that's going to do it.

 

I'd go out on a limb and guess that most CAS folks don't practice shooting anything at 50 yards. ;)

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Looks like everyone joining this dog-pile now is calling for Lone Dog to provide video proof of everything he references, how about making everyone provide video proof or web links to everything they say? Do you happen to have a video of this particular feat? I'm not saying I don't believe it since it's quite possible, I would just like to see it since it's not your typical speed shooter that's going to do it.

 

I'd go out on a limb and guess that most CAS folks don't practice shooting anything at 50 yards. ;)

+1

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After all this discussion, I am doubting a match was shot as you state. Can you provide a link to that video. If this video exists, was it one stage only out of maybe a dozen stages for variety? Heck I shot one major match a few years ago that had a full size buffalo 5 yards from the firing line to put all shots on and I got a penalty for shooting guns out of order. That was the only stage in the match with up close targets. As far as the purpose of a rifle in our sport being the projection of power over a distance, I can not find that anywhere in the SASS handbooks, can you? Since you are so good at looking at videos, I suggest you look at the videos or even still shots of the Winter Range stages. You will usually find 5 rifle targets of different shapes, sizes, heights, and distances. Perhaps you might attend that wonderful shoot and be thrilled.

Nosir, us Luddites cannot do the linkie thing. It does not matter what specific match it was. I am sure it was a great match and folks enjoyed themselves immensely. I quit watching the vids after two that were what I hate to see us having sunk to. Two huge pistol/rifle targets and dump 20 rounds double tapping or triple tapping. Or 2 pistol and 2 rifle targets with the same scenario dumps. I am grousing about how boring that would be to me personally. Just not my cup of tea at all and as far from the roots of the game as imagineable. Other than just one big target dump all 20 or even hell 24 get the sg in on the "fun" too. The match was not in Texas thank you for playing you wild guessers. I lost interest after watching two in a row of the same thing that I hate. The other stages may have been more to my liking but I doubt it.

 

You might want to check your facts, or lack there of. There were 117 shooters who finished Wild Bunch at Winter Range. And quite a few who didn't get an award, if that is what you were referring to when you said prizes. WBAS is not a side match. Have you tried it?

Boyd Towdy (y'all know ole Boyd, Zeke and Mazel Towdy's boy) do I love me some Wild Bunch. Much closer to our roots than reglar CAS

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I'd go out on a limb and guess that most CAS folks don't practice shooting anything at 50 yards. ;)

 

Excluding the Long Range side match shooters,you are way more right on your statement than wrong. Sad to say and me included.

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Say what you will, mileage always varies, but I'm having a ball playing cowboy!

 

Let's go shoot!

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Say what you will, mileage always varies, but I'm having a ball playing cowboy!

 

Let's go shoot!

Hell yeah! All I know for sure is that I will be having a blast playing this game even if the membership shrinks down to one: me.

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I have never found a match were the targets were where I did not like them.I don't care if they are big and close or small and for away.I have shot flying pigs,shot at clays and hit a few.Shot flying sodas.Texas Star with pistols and with rifle.Swingers and sliders.This is just too much fun to not like the target placements.I don't know what the good old days had but what I have now is the good old days for me.I shoot with a gunfighter that if he want a little change he shoots BP and he still wins.I am with Grizz,lets go shoot.

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Nosir, us Luddites cannot do the linkie thing.

Yup it is very hard to do a copy and paste. Probably about as hard as hitting a rifle target at 50 yards.

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You might want to check your facts, or lack there of. There were 117 shooters who finished Wild Bunch at Winter Range. And quite a few who didn't get an award, if that is what you were referring to when you said prizes. WBAS is not a side match. Have you tried it?

AS far as I am concerned it is at best a side match and at worst it takes away from any match I have ever seen ...

It should be at the very least kept from interfering with any Cowboy use of any range at which some wish to have it present I feel it detracts from a cowboy shoot big time ... WB is a wan-a-be It-Sick match with strange cloths ...

Further with all the hubba and Hippe it still didn't come close to the Number of Shooters for the Cowboy Match 829 plus some

turned away ...

 

Jabez Cowboy

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AS far as I am concerned it is at best a side match and at worst it takes away from any match I have ever seen ...

It should be at the very least kept from interfering with any Cowboy use of any range at which some wish to have it present I feel it detracts from a cowboy shoot big time ... WB is a wan-a-be It-Sick match with strange cloths ...

Further with all the hubba and Hippe it still didn't come close to the Number of Shooters for the Cowboy Match 829 plus some

turned away ...

 

Jabez Cowboy

Actually, cowboy matches should be kept from interfering with a Wild Bunch match. And there was a cutoff for Wild Bunch entries, as well. You should try it sometime before you put it down.

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I was at Winter range, and the only way the Wild Bunch match impacted me at all was at the awards. Wild bunch awards took about 16 minutes. If I had my druthers I'd like to see them handed out some other time than during the main awards.

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In filming the WB movie 16 97s were used 14 being in 16 Ga. but 16 ga. ain't allowed Good logic ....

The LUGER was in the Movie , Not Allowed ...

 

I have a rather strong dislike of 97s. ,,,but just maybe if I could use one in 16 ga. I might try WB at a match ...

I already shoot .40 cal. and bigger rifles (Mostly using Black)and own a 1911 that fit the trad. class...

 

But under the current rules it's a No Go for me .... If it was an Extra match and didn't take ANY TIME AWAY from

shooting Cowboy events, and I could use a 16 ga. I might give it a go ...

 

But to my mind it ain't Cowboy and should be kept apart from Cowboy things ...

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

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In filming the WB movie 16 97s were used 14 being in 16 Ga. but 16 ga. ain't allowed Good logic ....

The LUGER was in the Movie , Not Allowed ...

 

I have a rather strong dislike of 97s. ,,,but just maybe if I could use one in 16 ga. I might try WB at a match ...

I already shoot .40 cal. and bigger rifles (Mostly using Black)and own a 1911 that fit the trad. class...

 

But under the current rules it's a No Go for me .... If it was an Extra match and didn't take ANY TIME AWAY from

shooting Cowboy events, and I could use a 16 ga. I might give it a go ...

 

But to my mind it ain't Cowboy and should be kept apart from Cowboy things ...

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

You could shoot a Model 12 and I agree, cowboy things should be kept far, far away. It sure interrupts a good Wild Bunch match.

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Yep if I could use a mod.12 in 16 ga. I might give it a try ...........

But alas No 16s. allowed ....

In spite of 14 out of 16 shotguns used in filming WB being 16 ga. kinda makes sense Don't it ...

 

But I'm all for separating WB from Cowboy Matches and letting it Die on it's own ...

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

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...cowboy things should be kept far, far away. It sure interrupts a good Wild Bunch match.

Spoken like a good WB champ should! :D

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Well at least WB ain't the very worse thing about SASS,,, Rank Points is !!!

 

And the Shooters at the Matches Cowboy types are the BEST !!!

 

 

Even some of those on the Wire ...

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

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:ph34r: I am going for popcorn on this post!

;)

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hold on jus a couple minutes UB....we'z havin' ta pop more.... :wacko: butter or no??

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In filming the WB movie 16 97s were used 14 being in 16 Ga. but 16 ga. ain't allowed Good logic ....The LUGER was in the Movie , Not Allowed ...I have a rather strong dislike of 97s. ,,,but just maybe if I could use one in 16 ga. I might try WB at a match ...I already shoot .40 cal. and bigger rifles (Mostly using Black)and own a 1911 that fit the trad. class...But under the current rules it's a No Go for me .... If it was an Extra match and didn't take ANY TIME AWAY fromshooting Cowboy events, and I could use a 16 ga. I might give it a go ...But to my mind it ain't Cowboy and should be kept apart from Cowboy things ...Jabez Cowboy

I guess we have something in common there, I've got about a dozen 16 gauge shotguns and no 12's and the 16 ain't allowed in WB. They are having an introductory WB match at Escondido on Sunday and they'll let me shoot one of my 16 gauge 97's so I'll go to that one.

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I understand that the thread starts with a disdain for close targets. I have an opinion that long threads pop out in winter when we are hunkering down from the cold and sort of cantankerous, so wrong on that. I will shoot whatever and appreciate the work that goes on to put on a match. I think no matter what you have to shoot at whatever distance, its a level playing field.

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Yup it is very hard to do a copy and paste. Probably about as hard as hitting a rifle target at 50 yards.

 

I really don't care what you think. ...I watched two vids of an annual match and observed two big close pistol/rifle targets for 20 rifle/pistol rounds shot 3-2 and 2-3 repeated on the one stage. The other stage had twicet as many targets with 2 pistol and 2 rifle targets with, again, the 3-2 and 2-3 dumps. Does not matter whose match it was or where it was ...

 

I understand that the thread starts with a disdain for close targets. I have an opinion that long threads pop out in winter when we are hunkering down from the cold and sort of cantankerous, so wrong on that. I will shoot whatever and appreciate the work that goes on to put on a match. I think no matter what you have to shoot at whatever distance, its a level playing field.

 

Wrong. I do not have a disdain for close targets. My personal opinion is you can not get the pistol or shotgun targets too big or too close, I can still miss them. My disdain is for the two and two only big close pistol targets side by side in the same plane and the scenarios being three on one two on the other and then two on one three on the other. That is what I cannot comprehend the appeal of. And the total elimination of all the "goofy" stuff we used to do both on and off the clock. Now the rifle targets that is another matter. Is there anyone anywhere who feels the rifle targets of the modern game are too small or too far. Of course not, how could anyone think that these days...???...

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So how did you measure the target distance from your covert videos? How did you measure target sizes. My son uses a hat cam for most stages he shoots. All the targets in his videos look much bigger and larger than we measured them before the match. Last 3 WR matches are good examples

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Howdy Lone Dog,

 

Hope you are well and not too stressed out by this ongoing post. You are entitled to your opinion as are the others. Most SASS/CAS clubs have a few good folks who miss the good ole days. They speak about the days of small targets at greater distances and on the clock activities with stage times in minutes not seconds. In the beginning clubs were small in numbers with many shooting only one posse. Fast forward to 2002. I joined at the end of the era of small & far targets with on the clock activities. The emphasis was moving towards speed and processing more shooters in the same amount of time as was accomplished with fewer shooters. The matches became a more serious shooting competition and less entertainment. However, I still have just as much fun today as I did in 2002. Why, it's the good folks I shoot with at all four clubs in East Tennessee. Hope you can still enjoy shooting with your pards regardless of the stage setup.

 

Hasta Luego, Keystone

 

PS I couldn't find the any current information on the Canadian River Regulators. Not listed as a SASS Affiliated Club in Texas. Are they still active and where do you shoot regularly?

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Geeze... I'm one of the guilty ones for feeding this post. It's becoming a continuous loop and repeating itself, again and again and again and again and again and again and again............................................................................... :blink:

 

I'll stop now

 

Snakebite :P

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Howdy Lone Dog,

 

Hope you are well and not too stressed out by this ongoing post. You are entitled to your opinion as are the others. Most SASS/CAS clubs have a few good folks who miss the good ole days. They speak about the days of small targets at greater distances and on the clock activities with stage times in minutes not seconds. In the beginning clubs were small in numbers with many shooting only one posse. Fast forward to 2002. I joined at the end of the era of small & far targets with on the clock activities. The emphasis was moving towards speed and processing more shooters in the same amount of time as was accomplished with fewer shooters. The matches became a more serious shooting competition and less entertainment. However, I still have just as much fun today as I did in 2002. Why, it's the good folks I shoot with at all four clubs in East Tennessee. Hope you can still enjoy shooting with your pards regardless of the stage setup.

 

Hasta Luego, Keystone

 

PS I couldn't find the any current information on the Canadian River Regulators. Not listed as a SASS Affiliated Club in Texas. Are they still active and where do you shoot regularly?

Keystone, Here is the website for the Canadian River Regulators: http://canadianriverreg.tripod.com/

They also have a facebook page.

 

Lone Dog is more in agreement with you than in disagreement, but he does deplore matches that are just "dump all shots into two or three targets."

 

You and Lone Dog need to come to Black Gold. Now, THAT'S A SHOOT!

 

Duffield

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Geeze... I'm one of the guilty ones for feeding this post. It's becoming a continuous loop and repeating itself, again and again and again and again and again and again and again............................................................................... :blink:

 

I'll stop now

 

Snakebite :P

you will be back. ;)

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I haven't fed this thread; but, I will now. If I see any more rude comments, I will close this thread.

 

In other words, if you can't disagree politely, step away from the keyboard.

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Looks like everyone joining this dog-pile now is calling for Lone Dog to provide video proof of everything he references, how about making everyone provide video proof or web links to everything they say? Do you happen to have a video of this particular feat? I'm not saying I don't believe it since it's quite possible, I would just like to see it since it's not your typical speed shooter that's going to do it.

 

I'd go out on a limb and guess that most CAS folks don't practice shooting anything at 50 yards. ;)

I don't have video, I wish I did! It was amazing to watch! It was a side match at our annual and the shooter in question won the side match, shocking! I was in the on deck circle and stood there in awe! Yes he did win the event handily! My 5 second run with 2 misses wasn't even close!

 

Don't think anyone ever thought to video a long range pistol caliber rifle side match for entertainment purposes! Would have been cool to have!

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Howdy Duffield,

 

I had found the Canadian River Regulators website and facebook page but there hasn't been much current activity. Shooting sure beats the heck out of talking.

 

Hasta Luego, Keystone

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So how did you measure the target distance from your covert videos? How did you measure target sizes. My son uses a hat cam for most stages he shoots. All the targets in his videos look much bigger and larger than we measured them before the match. Last 3 WR matches are good examples

 

ONE more time -- I do not care how big or close pistol targets are. My grouse is that there were only two identical pistol targets side by side in the same plane and the scenarios were 3,2 -- 2,3. As boring as possible plus triple taps are deplorable, bad enuff we have so many double taps. When I shoot a bad guy target it's dead, give me another target of a different shape in a different plane to plug.

 

Howdy Lone Dog,

 

Hope you are well and not too stressed out by this ongoing post. You are entitled to your opinion as are the others. Most SASS/CAS clubs have a few good folks who miss the good ole days. They speak about the days of small targets at greater distances and on the clock activities with stage times in minutes not seconds. In the beginning clubs were small in numbers with many shooting only one posse. Fast forward to 2002. I joined at the end of the era of small & far targets with on the clock activities. The emphasis was moving towards speed and processing more shooters in the same amount of time as was accomplished with fewer shooters. The matches became a more serious shooting competition and less entertainment. However, I still have just as much fun today as I did in 2002. Why, it's the good folks I shoot with at all four clubs in East Tennessee. Hope you can still enjoy shooting with your pards regardless of the stage setup.

 

Hasta Luego, Keystone

 

PS I couldn't find the any current information on the Canadian River Regulators. Not listed as a SASS Affiliated Club in Texas. Are they still active and where do you shoot regularly?

 

 

We shoot the 2nd 3rd and 5th Sat at CRR in Clarendon. 1st Sat and sometimes 2nd and/or 3rd Sun in Amarillo at the Texas Tumbleweeds. 4th Sat here in Pampa aka Podunk TX. The Canadian River Regulators were a SASS affiliated club until recently when we did not have enuff SASS members so SASS decided to charge us 200 simoleons to stay affiliated. I offered to pay 100 of that to stay affiliated if the other members would all chip in the other 100 but that 100 did not materialize. The website is defunct. The lady who started it no longer plays this game. No one should try to call Steeldust Dan our founding father as he rode over the ridge a month or so ago to scout the way for the rest of us. The fb page is active some of us use it weekly.

 

Keystone, Here is the website for the Canadian River Regulators: http://canadianriverreg.tripod.com/

They also have a facebook page.

 

Lone Dog is more in agreement with you than in disagreement, but he does deplore matches that are just "dump all shots into two or three targets."

 

You and Lone Dog need to come to Black Gold. Now, THAT'S A SHOOT!

 

Duffield

 

Duffield, how ye doin' pard? You need to come back home here to our annual again this year. Some of these days I am going to get over there.

I haven't fed this thread; but, I will now. If I see any more rude comments, I will close this thread.

 

In other words, if you can't disagree politely, step away from the keyboard.

 

Close it ma'am. Folks are not listening and just putting forth the same same old stalking horse arguments. I am really dismayed by the apparent lack of reading comprehension skills some have displayed. It is a dead horse and just repeating stuff over and over. I am tired of trying to get folks to hear what it is I am actually saying which is not what they think I am saying. I was merely making a sad observation and never dreamed it would go 4 pages. The fact it has should tell some folks something but it won't...sigh...

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So, so don't like triple taps nor double taps.

 

Do you realize how many time bad guys have often had to be shot to be stopped?

 

I remember just one recent case where the guy was sober and took 17 45 ACP rounds, 7 of which were non-survivable and keep coming until another head shot.

 

I know this is more a fantasy game, but . . .

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