Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum
Sarge

Staging Targets

Recommended Posts

Does a competitor have the right to ask that a target be staged in a certain position?  I'm thinking specifically of a moving target such as a Texas Star, where the position of the petals at the start have a specific bearing on the movement of the target after the target is engaged.  I seen setup where one competitor gets the top petal carefully placed at the 12 o'clock position and the next competitor gets the top two targets placed at the 11 and 2 o'clock positions.  Didn't see much in the shooter's manual other than safe target distances and types of targets.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Never seen that done or heard of someone asking before this post. Seems to me if you are arranging the plates specifically for each shooter you are letting them shoot a different stage than everyone else. 
JMO

Regards

 

:FlagAm: :FlagAm: :FlagAm:

 

Gateway Kid

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not that I’m aware of.  The stars that I have shot usually have a spray paint spot that runs down vertically to show the balance point of the star to aid the staging.  This should have everyone shoot the same stage.

 

  • Like 10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The match director or stage writer determines target position- not the competitors. 

 

The way I set it up a texas star or shotgun windmill is the same for each and every shooter, each and every time.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I don't think there is any specific rule covering this, but in the interest of fairness, target placement should be as consistent as possible for all shooters.  That's just good sense and common courtesy.

Edited by Possum Skinner, SASS#60697
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Could you move that pistol target a couple yards closer for me?

  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Marauder SASS #13056 said:

Could you move that pistol target a couple yards closer for me?

 

Only if you'll move it a couple yards further out for me. :P

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If your target is properly lubricated it will find the same position on its own for every shooter. I have 2 of them and they always come to the sase stating position on their own.

  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The same could be said for SG knockdown targets. I have been known to toss the rope out to ensure the reset arm is down on a SG target that is reset with a rope/arm a time or two.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

The same could be said for SG knockdown targets. I have been known to toss the rope out to ensure the reset arm is down on a SG target that is reset with a rope/arm a time or two.

Gamer :P

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Tyrel Cody said:

Gamer :P

Just trying to give the rope some slack.

 

Seen more than a time or two where a spotter was standing on the rope and holding the knockdown in the up position. Unintentionally, but did so none the less.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

Just trying to give the rope some slack.

 

Seen more than a time or two where a spotter was standing on the rope and holding the knockdown in the up position. Unintentionally, but did so none the less.

 

I know, I've done the same. I was just yankin' yer chain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Tyrel Cody said:

 

I know, I've done the same. I was just yankin' yer chain.

We don't see too many chains out here. Mostly rope. ^_^

 

But joking aside, I know of folks who do have a problem with a shooter doing that.

Edited by Branchwater Jack SASS #88854
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Fence Cutter said:

The match director or stage writer determines target position- not the competitors. 

 

The way I set it up a texas star or shotgun windmill is the same for each and every shooter, each and every time.

Yep.  Agreed.  Have seen it happen a couple of times.  Usually attribute it too in-experienced shooters re-setting the Texas Star.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Sarge said:

Does a competitor have the right to ask that a target be staged in a certain position?  I'm thinking specifically of a moving target such as a Texas Star, where the position of the petals at the start have a specific bearing on the movement of the target after the target is engaged.  I seen setup where one competitor gets the top petal carefully placed at the 12 o'clock position and the next competitor gets the top two targets placed at the 11 and 2 o'clock positions.  Didn't see much in the shooter's manual other than safe target distances and types of targets.

 

Any request to do so would result in the Texas Star to be put in spin.

  • Like 2
  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As has already been said, all targets should be the same for all shooters. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Matthew Duncan said:

 

Any request to do so would result in the Texas Star to be put in spin.

Haven't seen that yet, but have seen them positioned differently for different shooters.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

We don't see too many chains out here. Mostly rope. ^_^

 

But joking aside, I know of folks who do have a problem with a shooter doing that.

Really! Ever had anyone say anything?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

Just trying to give the rope some slack.

 

Seen more than a time or two where a spotter was standing on the rope and holding the knockdown in the up position. Unintentionally, but did so none the less.

 

If ya stuff a little more FFg powder and shot in your loads and manage to whack that knockdown good and square, that spotter might find himself sitting directly on his @$$ when the rope gets a good "tug" out from under him.  Sound like something Tyrel might try....:lol:

  • Haha 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Sarge said:

Does a competitor have the right to ask that a target be staged in a certain position?  I'm thinking specifically of a moving target such as a Texas Star, where the position of the petals at the start have a specific bearing on the movement of the target after the target is engaged.  I seen setup where one competitor gets the top petal carefully placed at the 12 o'clock position and the next competitor gets the top two targets placed at the 11 and 2 o'clock positions.  Didn't see much in the shooter's manual other than safe target distances and types of targets.

 

Have never seen it in any gun game I've ever played. 

If I had, the MD in no uncertain terms would know why I would never return. 

OLG 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

Just trying to give the rope some slack.

 

Seen more than a time or two where a spotter was standing on the rope and holding the knockdown in the up position. Unintentionally, but did so none the less.

 

HUMMM!

BUHAHAHAAHH!

Look Out RED Storm !!!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Sagebrush Burns, SASS # 14226 said:

As a match director and posse marshal my reaction is:  "play the hand as dealt!"

While I would shoot it as is, I think this is a crappy answer and attitude.  Every effort should be made to keep staged targets equal for all shooters.  Period.  Unless, of course, it is done as a friendly "joke" to a shooter who enjoys that sort of thing.

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Sagebrush Burns, SASS # 14226 said:

As a match director and posse marshal my reaction is:  "play the hand as dealt!"

I'm new, so maybe you are right...

 

But having practiced Texas Stars a little bit, I have already learned different strategies apply if for instance it is balanced with one centered at the top versus one centered at the bottom.

 

I'm not good enough to have it make a difference if I am up against a champion, but I do think everyone should be dealt the same hand.

 

But for you, I might see taking @Nutmeg Ryder, SASS # 74966's suggestion and giving it a spin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is the Timer Operator's responsibility to ensure all targets are reset before calling up the next shooter.
REF: SHB, RO1, RO2.

That implies "reset PROPERLY".


IMO, if a shooter notices that a target is not reset the same as it was for all previous shooters on a stage, it would be reasonable to request that it be fixed.
That is not the same as asking that it be set differently than for everyone else for any possible competitive advantage.

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you really want to make the Texas Star fun, cover the view of the top target with a 2x10 beam.  

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 5/30/2020 at 3:03 PM, Matthew Duncan said:

 

Any request to do so would result in the Texas Star to be put in spin.

As usual, I'm confused.  How can one set a T-star anywhere except where it naturally balances? Doesn't it just rotate right back into its balance point?  Surely folks don't swap petals back and forth to custom balance it--or do they? 

Edited by Dusty Devil Dale

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

As usual, I'm confused.  How can one set a T-star anywhere except where it naturally balances? Doesn't it just rotate right back into its balance point?  Surely folks don't swap petals back and forth to custom balance it--or do they? 

The one's I've shot aren't perfectly balanced and can sometimes be set in more than one position.  Ideally you want one 'petal' as close to straight up as possible, or at least I do, cause that's the one I'm going to shoot first.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

As usual, I'm confused.  How can one set a T-star anywhere except where it naturally balances? Doesn't it just rotate right back into its balance point?  Surely folks don't swap petals back and forth to custom balance it--or do they? 

The petals don’t go back onto the same arms each time so getting it to naturally balance at the same point each time can be problematic. The one down at Dulzura is very random where it balances.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IF you have a "Star" type target that is defective in that it doesn't balance properly every time it is easy to make a mark on the back of each arm (1-5) and mark the plates the same at the base where they don't get hit and that way the target is the same for every shooter. There are a lot of people making star type targets and I suppose the QC on some is not quite as good as it needs to be.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Happy Jack, SASS #20451 said:

IF you have a "Star" type target that is defective in that it doesn't balance properly every time it is easy to make a mark on the back of each arm (1-5) and mark the plates the same at the base where they don't get hit and that way the target is the same for every shooter. There are a lot of people making star type targets and I suppose the QC on some is not quite as good as it needs to be.

That would probably work for most T-star targets that I've seen, but my experience in matches is that even with an efficient two person crew servicing the T-star, the posse does a lot of waiting for reset.  In big matches, that can be a consequential delay affecting stage-to-stage progress.  Any task or complexity added to the reset process is going to add to the time required. 

 

There are likely to be at least small differences between what shooters get dealt on most moving targets.   To some extent it is just a part of the game.  But where there are doable remedies, and they don't require an inordinate amount of posse time, I think most of us implement them.  Nobody in our sport would opt to operate a match unfairly, at least I would hope not.  And if a shooter points out a legitimately unfair target differential, I don't think any of us  would want to ignore it.  It's one reason why we have Match Directors.  

Edited by Dusty Devil Dale

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

That would probably work for most T-star targets that I've seen, but my experience in matches is that even with an efficient two person crew servicing the T-star, the posse does a lot of waiting for reset.  In big matches, that can be a consequential delay affecting stage-to-stage progress.  Any task or complexity added to the reset process is going to add to the time required. 

 

There are likely to be at least small differences between what shooters get dealt on most moving targets.   To some extent it is just a part of the game.  But where there are doable remedies, and they don't require an inordinate amount of posse time, I think most of us implement them.  Nobody in our sport would opt to operate a match unfairly, at least I would hope not.  And if a shooter points out a legitimately unfair target differential, I don't think any of us  would want to ignore it.  It's one reason why we have Match Directors.  

Down at Dulzura the last time they had a monthly that I attended with the T star in play it took nearly 90 minutes to shoot the first T star stage!! I timed a couple of resets of the T star and they took nearly 4 minutes to reset the T star. One resetter would stand there and look at it until it stopped moving. It was a six stage match and we were just finishing up stage 4 at 1:00 with two more stages to go and one of them another T star stage. I left, had a family function I had to make, another shooter that was there said they didn’t finish until 4:00. I’m glad they post the stages before hand now because I’ll shoot up at Cajon when the T star is in play. I’d rather shoot a match than watch somebody reset targets.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd like my pistol targets a little bigger please. Actually a lot bigger. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.