Sarge Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 Does a competitor have the right to ask that a target be staged in a certain position? I'm thinking specifically of a moving target such as a Texas Star, where the position of the petals at the start have a specific bearing on the movement of the target after the target is engaged. I seen setup where one competitor gets the top petal carefully placed at the 12 o'clock position and the next competitor gets the top two targets placed at the 11 and 2 o'clock positions. Didn't see much in the shooter's manual other than safe target distances and types of targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 Never seen that done or heard of someone asking before this post. Seems to me if you are arranging the plates specifically for each shooter you are letting them shoot a different stage than everyone else. JMO Regards Gateway Kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tucker McNeely Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 Not that I’m aware of. The stars that I have shot usually have a spray paint spot that runs down vertically to show the balance point of the star to aid the staging. This should have everyone shoot the same stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fence Cutter Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 The match director or stage writer determines target position- not the competitors. The way I set it up a texas star or shotgun windmill is the same for each and every shooter, each and every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 I don't think there is any specific rule covering this, but in the interest of fairness, target placement should be as consistent as possible for all shooters. That's just good sense and common courtesy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 Could you move that pistol target a couple yards closer for me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 Just now, Marauder SASS #13056 said: Could you move that pistol target a couple yards closer for me? Only if you'll move it a couple yards further out for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack, SASS #20451 Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 If your target is properly lubricated it will find the same position on its own for every shooter. I have 2 of them and they always come to the sase stating position on their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 The same could be said for SG knockdown targets. I have been known to toss the rope out to ensure the reset arm is down on a SG target that is reset with a rope/arm a time or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrel Cody Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 Just now, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said: The same could be said for SG knockdown targets. I have been known to toss the rope out to ensure the reset arm is down on a SG target that is reset with a rope/arm a time or two. Gamer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Tyrel Cody said: Gamer Just trying to give the rope some slack. Seen more than a time or two where a spotter was standing on the rope and holding the knockdown in the up position. Unintentionally, but did so none the less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrel Cody Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 Just now, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said: Just trying to give the rope some slack. Seen more than a time or two where a spotter was standing on the rope and holding the knockdown in the up position. Unintentionally, but did so none the less. I know, I've done the same. I was just yankin' yer chain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Tyrel Cody said: I know, I've done the same. I was just yankin' yer chain. We don't see too many chains out here. Mostly rope. . But joking aside, I know of folks who do have a problem with a shooter doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted May 30, 2020 Author Share Posted May 30, 2020 2 hours ago, Fence Cutter said: The match director or stage writer determines target position- not the competitors. The way I set it up a texas star or shotgun windmill is the same for each and every shooter, each and every time. Yep. Agreed. Have seen it happen a couple of times. Usually attribute it too in-experienced shooters re-setting the Texas Star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Duncan Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 3 hours ago, Sarge said: Does a competitor have the right to ask that a target be staged in a certain position? I'm thinking specifically of a moving target such as a Texas Star, where the position of the petals at the start have a specific bearing on the movement of the target after the target is engaged. I seen setup where one competitor gets the top petal carefully placed at the 12 o'clock position and the next competitor gets the top two targets placed at the 11 and 2 o'clock positions. Didn't see much in the shooter's manual other than safe target distances and types of targets. Any request to do so would result in the Texas Star to be put in spin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 As has already been said, all targets should be the same for all shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted May 30, 2020 Author Share Posted May 30, 2020 23 minutes ago, Matthew Duncan said: Any request to do so would result in the Texas Star to be put in spin. Haven't seen that yet, but have seen them positioned differently for different shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said: We don't see too many chains out here. Mostly rope. . But joking aside, I know of folks who do have a problem with a shooter doing that. Really! Ever had anyone say anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackalope Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 2 hours ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said: Just trying to give the rope some slack. Seen more than a time or two where a spotter was standing on the rope and holding the knockdown in the up position. Unintentionally, but did so none the less. If ya stuff a little more FFg powder and shot in your loads and manage to whack that knockdown good and square, that spotter might find himself sitting directly on his @$$ when the rope gets a good "tug" out from under him. Sound like something Tyrel might try.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.S. Sooner, SASS #73526 Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 Should be set the same for all shooters. Rabble-rousers get a free spin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 6 hours ago, Sarge said: Does a competitor have the right to ask that a target be staged in a certain position? I'm thinking specifically of a moving target such as a Texas Star, where the position of the petals at the start have a specific bearing on the movement of the target after the target is engaged. I seen setup where one competitor gets the top petal carefully placed at the 12 o'clock position and the next competitor gets the top two targets placed at the 11 and 2 o'clock positions. Didn't see much in the shooter's manual other than safe target distances and types of targets. Have never seen it in any gun game I've ever played. If I had, the MD in no uncertain terms would know why I would never return. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sagebrush Burns, SASS # 14226 Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 As a match director and posse marshal my reaction is: "play the hand as dealt!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutmeg Ryder, SASS # 74966 Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 We always reset it to it's balance point. Or give it a spin for certain shooters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474 Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 17 hours ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said: Just trying to give the rope some slack. Seen more than a time or two where a spotter was standing on the rope and holding the knockdown in the up position. Unintentionally, but did so none the less. HUMMM! BUHAHAHAAHH! Look Out RED Storm !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 19 hours ago, Sagebrush Burns, SASS # 14226 said: As a match director and posse marshal my reaction is: "play the hand as dealt!" While I would shoot it as is, I think this is a crappy answer and attitude. Every effort should be made to keep staged targets equal for all shooters. Period. Unless, of course, it is done as a friendly "joke" to a shooter who enjoys that sort of thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kloehr Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 21 hours ago, Sagebrush Burns, SASS # 14226 said: As a match director and posse marshal my reaction is: "play the hand as dealt!" I'm new, so maybe you are right... But having practiced Texas Stars a little bit, I have already learned different strategies apply if for instance it is balanced with one centered at the top versus one centered at the bottom. I'm not good enough to have it make a difference if I am up against a champion, but I do think everyone should be dealt the same hand. But for you, I might see taking @Nutmeg Ryder, SASS # 74966's suggestion and giving it a spin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 It is the Timer Operator's responsibility to ensure all targets are reset before calling up the next shooter.REF: SHB, RO1, RO2.That implies "reset PROPERLY". IMO, if a shooter notices that a target is not reset the same as it was for all previous shooters on a stage, it would be reasonable to request that it be fixed. That is not the same as asking that it be set differently than for everyone else for any possible competitive advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlands Bob #61228 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 If you really want to make the Texas Star fun, cover the view of the top target with a 2x10 beam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Devil Dale Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 On 5/30/2020 at 3:03 PM, Matthew Duncan said: Any request to do so would result in the Texas Star to be put in spin. As usual, I'm confused. How can one set a T-star anywhere except where it naturally balances? Doesn't it just rotate right back into its balance point? Surely folks don't swap petals back and forth to custom balance it--or do they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 7 hours ago, Dusty Devil Dale said: As usual, I'm confused. How can one set a T-star anywhere except where it naturally balances? Doesn't it just rotate right back into its balance point? Surely folks don't swap petals back and forth to custom balance it--or do they? The one's I've shot aren't perfectly balanced and can sometimes be set in more than one position. Ideally you want one 'petal' as close to straight up as possible, or at least I do, cause that's the one I'm going to shoot first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yul Lose Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 7 hours ago, Dusty Devil Dale said: As usual, I'm confused. How can one set a T-star anywhere except where it naturally balances? Doesn't it just rotate right back into its balance point? Surely folks don't swap petals back and forth to custom balance it--or do they? The petals don’t go back onto the same arms each time so getting it to naturally balance at the same point each time can be problematic. The one down at Dulzura is very random where it balances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack, SASS #20451 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 IF you have a "Star" type target that is defective in that it doesn't balance properly every time it is easy to make a mark on the back of each arm (1-5) and mark the plates the same at the base where they don't get hit and that way the target is the same for every shooter. There are a lot of people making star type targets and I suppose the QC on some is not quite as good as it needs to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Devil Dale Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Happy Jack, SASS #20451 said: IF you have a "Star" type target that is defective in that it doesn't balance properly every time it is easy to make a mark on the back of each arm (1-5) and mark the plates the same at the base where they don't get hit and that way the target is the same for every shooter. There are a lot of people making star type targets and I suppose the QC on some is not quite as good as it needs to be. That would probably work for most T-star targets that I've seen, but my experience in matches is that even with an efficient two person crew servicing the T-star, the posse does a lot of waiting for reset. In big matches, that can be a consequential delay affecting stage-to-stage progress. Any task or complexity added to the reset process is going to add to the time required. There are likely to be at least small differences between what shooters get dealt on most moving targets. To some extent it is just a part of the game. But where there are doable remedies, and they don't require an inordinate amount of posse time, I think most of us implement them. Nobody in our sport would opt to operate a match unfairly, at least I would hope not. And if a shooter points out a legitimately unfair target differential, I don't think any of us would want to ignore it. It's one reason why we have Match Directors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yul Lose Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 2 hours ago, Dusty Devil Dale said: That would probably work for most T-star targets that I've seen, but my experience in matches is that even with an efficient two person crew servicing the T-star, the posse does a lot of waiting for reset. In big matches, that can be a consequential delay affecting stage-to-stage progress. Any task or complexity added to the reset process is going to add to the time required. There are likely to be at least small differences between what shooters get dealt on most moving targets. To some extent it is just a part of the game. But where there are doable remedies, and they don't require an inordinate amount of posse time, I think most of us implement them. Nobody in our sport would opt to operate a match unfairly, at least I would hope not. And if a shooter points out a legitimately unfair target differential, I don't think any of us would want to ignore it. It's one reason why we have Match Directors. Down at Dulzura the last time they had a monthly that I attended with the T star in play it took nearly 90 minutes to shoot the first T star stage!! I timed a couple of resets of the T star and they took nearly 4 minutes to reset the T star. One resetter would stand there and look at it until it stopped moving. It was a six stage match and we were just finishing up stage 4 at 1:00 with two more stages to go and one of them another T star stage. I left, had a family function I had to make, another shooter that was there said they didn’t finish until 4:00. I’m glad they post the stages before hand now because I’ll shoot up at Cajon when the T star is in play. I’d rather shoot a match than watch somebody reset targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Tom Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 I'd like my pistol targets a little bigger please. Actually a lot bigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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