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Lil_Rob

Frontier cartridge powder

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Captain C talked me into shooting FC. I was using Black MZ but it's no longer made. I really like it because it was fairly inexpensive and didn't require cleaning the guns right away. So the question is what powder do all you FC shooters use and why? I know a lot use APP and I picked some up. But it's a little expensive to shoot all the time.

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It's the same as MZ. MZ was APP 3f. It is more expensive but about the same as the upper end price of real BP. Try Grafs brand (Goex). Schuetzen is also an excellent all around powder for cowboy shooting and 30 years ago was also used as very good long range powder, It is usually priced $3-$5 less than Goex.

kR

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In order of preference.

 

1. Grafs(because it's cheaper) which is Goex now

2. Schuetzen

3. Goex

4. Goex Old Eynsford

 

No subs for me; too much smoke and no flame :( I don't fault or look down on anyone that chooses to.

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First, I'm pleased you are shooting FC in New Mexico and hope you do at the State Match in September.  There are too few of us in the smokey categories.

 

In my wife's .32s revolvers she shoots APP.  It meets the smoke standard, is not corrosive on steel, and doesn't stink - all important to her.   It is expensive, somewhat hydroscopic and meters poorly.

 

In our rifles we use Triple Seven FFg.  It meets the smoke standard, is not corrosive on steel (but is on brass), and meters well.  It is expensive and has substantial recoil in full loads.

 

In our shotgun shells I use all the subs and real black powder.   I am moving towards all black powder since I recent acquired used casting and sizing equipment.  My wife will stay with the subs.  Their smoke stinks less.

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Whatever powder you end up shooting try to do bulk orders with other FC shooters in your area. If you shop around you can sometimes get reduced or free shipping on bulk orders. Because of the hazmat charges this will bring your cost way down per bottle.

 

BTW Welcome to the Dark Side!!!!

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I'll use Black MZ til they put me under - I've got well over a hundred pounds, and another three+ cases of Goex Pinnacle.

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I shoot APP in my shotgun and 777 in my pistols and rifle. 

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1 hour ago, Three Foot Johnson said:

I'll use Black MZ til they put me under - I've got well over a hundred pounds, and another three+ cases of Goex Pinnacle.

 

I have a 2-3 year inventory of BlackMZ depending how many matches we get to shoot.   I'll switch to Grafs Reenactor for loading shotgun shells to stretch it out.

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I use Black MZ for SG, APP 2F for my 44s and 38-40s, APP 3F for 38s, and will be using APP 3F for C&B.  When my stash of Black MZ runs out I'll use APP 2F for the SG.

Welcome to the adventure. 

 

BS

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I have been happy with Graf's. Last order was Reenactor for shotgun 15.99 lb, 2F for 45 colt and cowboy 16.59 lb. $9.95 shipping, happened to hit the free hazmat charge. 65 gr for 12 ga, 35 gr for 45 colt,  20 gr for 45 cowboy...10 gauge is where it adds up: 95 gr. About 7000 gr in a pound for your cost calculation. Nothing like the real deal. 

48668539061_7ee90675f7_o.jpg

48668693307_8e79b5ce90_o.jpg

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APP in everything.

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10 hours ago, Lil_Rob said:

Captain C talked me into shooting FC. I was using Black MZ but it's no longer made. I really like it because it was fairly inexpensive and didn't require cleaning the guns right away. So the question is what powder do all you FC shooters use and why? I know a lot use APP and I picked some up. But it's a little expensive to shoot all the time.

Oh yeah......blame THAT guy for getting you hooked !:lol:

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GOEX FF all the way.

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For monthly I use app in rifle and pistols and blackmz in shotgun, when my stock of bmz runs out I'll go back to whatever is the cheapest I was using pyrodex but have to clean asap and lube well. For big matches like bordertown and eot I use real black powder in all weapons.

Rafe

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Goex FFg in everything currently. Have some FFFg that I’ll try in the 44-40 and some Fg that I’ll probably run in the SG if my 50-90 doesn’t like it. 

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777 in everything.

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I'm using APP only because I'm too lazy to lube bullets.  Now all I have to do is figure out is how to get that cool fire out the front like real BP.  

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8 hours ago, Lead Monger said:

GOEX FF all the way.

Does foul your guns much 

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Yes. GOEX will foul guns. For me, some guns tolerate it more than others. 1851s, 1860s and 1872s were made for BP and with a little prep will easily run through a five or six stage match without problems. Shotguns love BP but may need the chambers brushed after a few stages. Rifles, I shoot a 66, 73 and a 92. All in 45 Colt and they work just fine. If the carrier gets sticky on the 66 or 73 I just dribble water or moose milk on the carrier and cycle the lever until free. Wipe the goop of and go again. It is not difficult and does not take that much time. If the weather is dry you have a day or two to get the guns cleaned. If it is damp out it is best to clean right away.

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11 hours ago, Tequila Shooter said:

I'm using APP only because I'm too lazy to lube bullets.  Now all I have to do is figure out is how to get that cool fire out the front like real BP.  

 

Tequila, I used to be that way.  When I started shooting BP, I used Cleanshot (APP) in the rifle for that reason.  I did panlube bullets for a while but that was a pain, and took too much time when working full time and shooting every weekend.  But always real BP in shotgun (no lube needed) and in pistols with no lube at all on the bullets.  At the loading table I squirt butter-flavored Crisco over the first two rounds to be fired in each pistol.  This has worked fine for me for 20 years.  Although I did buy a beat up old Lyman lubrisizer about 15 years ago so I could lube my rifle bullets and shoot real BP in them.  But I'm still just doing the lube-over-bullet thing for pistols because it is much easier than lubing bullets and works so well for me.  In hot Texas summers I've never had the lube melt and run out of the cylinders.  I think the butter-flavored Crisco may have a higher melting point than regular Crisco, but then they don't get lubed until a few minutes before I shoot anyway.

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11 hours ago, Tequila Shooter said:

I'm using APP only because I'm too lazy to lube bullets.  Now all I have to do is figure out is how to get that cool fire out the front like real BP.  

 

Fg in SG - close to 6' flame

 

Pistol was APP with I think a bit too much Ballastol in the barrel.

 

 

 

flame.jpg

Dragons tongue.jpg

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1 hour ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

 

Tequila, I used to be that way.  When I started shooting BP, I used Cleanshot (APP) in the rifle for that reason.  I did panlube bullets for a while but that was a pain, and took too much time when working full time and shooting every weekend.  But always real BP in shotgun (no lube needed) and in pistols with no lube at all on the bullets.  At the loading table I squirt butter-flavored Crisco over the first two rounds to be fired in each pistol.  This has worked fine for me for 20 years.  Although I did buy a beat up old Lyman lubrisizer about 15 years ago so I could lube my rifle bullets and shoot real BP in them.  But I'm still just doing the lube-over-bullet thing for pistols because it is much easier than lubing bullets and works so well for me.  In hot Texas summers I've never had the lube melt and run out of the cylinders.  I think the butter-flavored Crisco may have a higher melting point than regular Crisco, but then they don't get lubed until a few minutes before I shoot anyway.

 

Plus you get that nice buttery smell :ph34r: :D

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1 hour ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

I think the butter-flavored Crisco may have a higher melting point than regular Crisco, but then they don't get lubed until a few minutes before I shoot anyway.

 

Try unsalted peanut butter.  Why not?   It's vegetable oil and stays pretty thick in hot weather.   I tried it and it works. 

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I cast my own .454 round balls for a pair of Pietta 1851 Yanks and a Pietta 1858 sheriff, and .45 230 Lee tumble lube bullets for. 45 Cowboy Special.  I also load 12-ga, 20-ga, .38-40 and .32-20 for Frontiersman/Frontier Cartridge matches.

 

I use APP or 777 FFFg for all loads.  This keeps the bullet lube issue very simple since these powders create their own lube.  If I find real bp, it is loaded in my scattergun hulls.

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GOEX FF is my powder of choice

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Any brand of real BP in fG in everything, makes more flame and sparks, doesn't get any dirtier than ffg or fffg. My daughter's idea.

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4 minutes ago, Springfield Slim SASS #24733 said:

Any brand of real BP in fG in everything, makes more flame and sparks, doesn't get any dirtier than ffg or fffg. My daughter's idea.

 

Any caliber? Curious if that holds for .38?

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I prefer Schuetzen, a little cleaner burning, Big Lube bullets keep the fouling soft . I just finished up a batch of KIK but now I can't find anymore. You don't have to clean them same day, I usually clean on Tuesday. If it's gonna be a week or more I'll hit them with a very light mist of Ballistol and put them in the safe. Makes clean up a breeze. Good Luck:)

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15 minutes ago, Jefro, SASS#69420 said:

I prefer Schuetzen, a little cleaner burning, Big Lube bullets keep the fouling soft . I just finished up a batch of KIK but now I can't find anymore. You don't have to clean them same day, I usually clean on Tuesday. If it's gonna be a week or more I'll hit them with a very light mist of Ballistol and put them in the safe. Makes clean up a breeze. Good Luck:)

 

Before my get up and go got up and went I cleaned the BP guns as soon as I got home.  Now I give them some Ballistol in the chambers and bore and the outside before I put them away after the match, then clean them up to a month later.

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19 minutes ago, Jefro, SASS#69420 said:

I prefer Schuetzen, a little cleaner burning, Big Lube bullets keep the fouling soft . I just finished up a batch of KIK but now I can't find anymore. You don't have to clean them same day, I usually clean on Tuesday. If it's gonna be a week or more I'll hit them with a very light mist of Ballistol and put them in the safe. Makes clean up a breeze. Good Luck:)

KIK was discontinued about 4 years ago, and pretty much gone from distributor backstock by 2018.

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Tyrel; I don't know, all our BP cowboy  calibers start with a 4! When you can't go fast, at least make lots of smoke and flame.

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Over the years, I have noticed something...

 

There are several different black powder substitutes.  

 

There are a few different brands of real black powder.

 

It seems like every option has its advocates and its detractors.   Find the one that you like, and leave it at that.  Ask others who use the same one for any tips they can offer.   

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I'm was kind of stuck on Graf/Goex 2f . 10ga, 12ga, 45-60, 45-70, 45-90, 38-40, 44-40, and in 32-20 3f. Tried Pyrodex and 777 at one time, didn't care for it. Clean up with Ballistol,,, lube with same and Bore-Butter. Went to the dark side about 11-12 yrs ago. Had fun right up to the medical issues.

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Shoot Goex 3F in everything Cowboy, except Longrange ....

I find it has more energy and Less Fouling ....

 

Jabez Cowboy

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