Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

30.06 verses 308


Trigger Mike

Recommended Posts

I usually hunt with a 30.06 and have for years.  Once in a while I will pull out my dad's 35 Remington to sort of remember him by but now my sons might carry it.  I do have a 308 that I plan to set up for coyote with night vision since 3006 has too much recoil for night scopes.  Currently most of my deer shots have been 100-160 yards away with intermittent trees in between.  Once in a while I jerk the trigger but mostly hit at that range.  the 3006 takes them down fairly hard and even if I graze one by shooting too low it still does not go far.  How does the 308 compare for deer hunting?  Is the ballistics better?  Is the take down the same?  Does one have an advantage over another?  

 

 

I ask since to get rid of a gun I hated since I pinched a nerve in my neck, I had to trade it for a Weatherby Vanguard and leopold scope NIB, and will either let my son have it for Christmas or trade it toward a Kimber and give my son my current Weatherby Vanguard with leopold.  my dealer has a 308 Kimber in stock but can get the 3006.

Link to post
Share on other sites

On deer there is no difference between the two when it comes to performance.  the 308 has the advantage of producing similar ballistics with light and medium weight bullets all while using a shorter case, shorter action, and less powder.  The 30-06 seems to perform better with heavy bullets and can push bullets of any weight slightly faster than the 308 but again it's not going to make a difference on deer. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you considered loading down the 30-06 to suite your deer hunting needs? I find that my 308s tend to kick a bit more due to more compact / lighter rifles that are usually chambered for it. 30-06 rifle tend to be longer heavier actions and barrels typically. 

Having used both calibers for elk, I will say that both are devastating with decent shot placements, especially on a deer size game. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

My only caution, and why I have never owned a .308, is the possibility of mixing .308 ammo in a .30-06 rifle!  The excessive headspace could cause real problems!  You can certainly down-load an '06 to .308 ballistics.  You will have to use a faster-burning rate powder to do so.  Avoid reduced loads of IMR/H4831, IMR4350 and other slow-burning powders.  Something like 48.5 gr. of IMR4895 and a 150 gr. bullet or even 48 gr. IMR3031 with a 150 grainer should produce milder recoil, and will certainly do the job on any deer, and possibly even elk. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I experimented with downloading my .270 Winchester for this deer season because the factory loads were unpleasant on my aging shoulder.  I like the results.  I used a 110 grain Hornady bullet over a reduced load of H4895 powder and took a spike buck yesterday afternoon with no problems.  Hodgdon Powder company has published that H4895 can be reduced to 60% of the maximum load for a given bullet.  They specify H4895, not IMR4895;  I would not substitute one for the other unless you contact Hodgdon and get their OK, notwithstanding my respect for Trailrider's experience.

 

Interpolating between published loads in the ballistics tables, my 110 grain bullet was traveling approximately 2600 fps when it left the muzzle.  It gives me a group less than 1" diameter at 100 yards, so it looked respectable on paper, and worked just fine in the field.  

 

I hate to admit I am becoming recoil sensitive, but I am.  The reduced load was quite pleasant, about like a .410 shotgun.  And it was cheaper than buying a .243!! :D

 

Link to Hodgdon's information on H4895:

 

https://imrpowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/h4895-reduced-rifle-loads.pdf

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, July Smith said:

On deer there is no difference between the two when it comes to performance.  the 308 has the advantage of producing similar ballistics with light and medium weight bullets all while using a shorter case, shorter action, and less powder.  The 30-06 seems to perform better with heavy bullets and can push bullets of any weight slightly faster than the 308 but again it's not going to make a difference on deer. 

What he said.  It is my understanding that the army developed the 308, smaller, lighter, but with equivalent ballistics to the 06 so soldiers could carry more ammo in the field.  I don't have much experience with an 06 but I like the 308.  To me the 06 kicks harder.  My pet load for my 308 is 165 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip.  Knocks 'em down hard.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

 

That is great info.  Want to point out though that it is not valid for IMR4895.  IMR4895 and H4895 are NOT interchangeable. 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Took this fella this morning with my Rock River Arms LAR-8 in .308. Was 6 degrees when I went out and snow on the ground. Was only around 70 yard shot through a lot of trees which still had leaves on them. After the hit he went maybe 10 yards and that was the end. I also have my dad's WW II Remington Arms built in 9-43   03 that was sporterized and it is the 30-06. I have used it on the deer and is much harder hitting as to what I have seen. I am speaking of impact when the deer is hit. For a much decrease in kick with still as much damage from the bullet, I would go with the .270 Over the past weekend a young fellow hunting with me took a nice deer at 90 yards with a .270 and it blew a heck of a hole at the exit wound. Section of ribs just blown away after going through the heart. The .308 and the .270 are great deer rounds in my book.

Deer 1.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

The .308 is a "Want to Be" .30-06 ,,, almost but still 100 to 250 FPS. short of what the .30-06 will do ....

Both will kill Deer with proper shot placement...

 

Jabez Cowboy

Link to post
Share on other sites

Why do we have to pick between Ginger and Mary Ann?  I worked with a lady once whose ex husband (notice the ex part) who wanted her for his stay at home wife and another woman for the wife he traveled with.  He didn't want to pick between the two I guess

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have both; 308 in a Model 66 Winchester and 30-06 in a pre 64 Model 70.  Both great cartridges and will both handle any Deer in N.A.   Cheers,   Hoss C.

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Trailrider #896 said:

My only caution, and why I have never owned a .308, is the possibility of mixing .308 ammo in a .30-06 rifle!  The excessive headspace could cause real problems! 

There is no plausible way this ^^^^ could happen. The 2 rounds are physically different in length! {.479 case length difference}. If you were able to mix the 2 ammunition types without noticing, the 308 rounds would just rattle on down the 06 chamber and NOTHING would happen when the trigger was pulled unless your firearm has a 1/2" overlength firing pin.. I'm sure that somebody is going to mention a Mauser type bolt gun claw extractor and the possibility of getting a round to actually go off, which IF it were to happen would result in lousy fire formed reduced length 30-06 cases being created from .308 rounds.

Not knocking your cautions Trail Rider, but I do own and use both, and that perceived problem has never crossed my mind. The commonality of primers, powders and bullets are definitely positives for the 2 cartridges.

Now an argument might made regarding 7mm-08 and 308 {.020 case length difference} getting intermixed without noticing, and if you are able to get the 308 bolt to close, you would likely end up with no ill affects of 7mm-08 in a 308, only lots of blowby and poor performance.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Had a Savage 99 in 308 and it was fun to shoot but I prefer an ‘06.  I have shot moose, deer, caribou, mountain goats and a bear by necessity with an ‘06 with never an issue of putting the critters down. As was said before - a Ginger vs Mary Anne choice. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Hoss Carpenter said:

I have both; 308 in a Model 66 Winchester and 30-06 in a pre 64 Model 70.  Both great cartridges and will both handle any Deer in N.A.   Cheers,   Hoss C.

You got a .308 to fit in a 66 Winchester? How did you do that? Maybe an 88 instead?

Bugler

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, the .308 is chambered in rifles sized for women and boys, while the .30-06 has won two World Wars. No, it's not Ginger and Mary Ann. One has less energy ever on the table. I have a great respect for both cartridges, but I only have one in a pistol...the .308. It's a fireball of fun pushing a 125 grain Soft point out of fifteen inches of glorious Encore Pistol barrel north of 3000 fps. I like it for its ability to own whatever range besting the .460 for noise and muzzle blast. I appreciate the .30-06 for its energy and accuracy over the years. If I hade to pick just one, I'd give the nod to the '06 and get on with my handloads. Screw NATO. The BAR was always better than the M-14 especially now that there are 30 round magazines available. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Bugler, you are so right. My 308 is a Winchester 88. I have a 66 too, but in 45 LC. I am getting too old to keep all my "Numbers" straight!

BTW, the 88 is a rifle.  Cheers  Hoss C.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 I have been an 06 guy for lots of years , still my go to for hunting , But I am looking at building a 7x57 , just cuase I got enough parts to 

Many years back , I got a chance to go on an Elk hunt , built up a 8x57js , right before I got hurt , even tho I figured the 06 would do just as well 

I feel the 308 has a sharper recoil , than a 30-06 

There are lots of the older cartages that will that will do very well for taking deer 6.5x55 , 7x57 , 8x57 , 303 Brit 

JMO , and it be worth what ya paid for it 

 

  CB 

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 said:

The .308 is a "Want to Be" .30-06 ,,, almost but still 100 to 250 FPS. short of what the .30-06 will do ....

Both will kill Deer with proper shot placement...

 

Jabez Cowboy

You might want to look at some new ballistics. I've always been a die hard .30/06 man, but bought a .308 auto a few years ago, and quite a few loads with lighter bullets actually exceed the '06, as much as it pains me to say it. I think the answer lies in that being a newer cartridge, the .308 is loaded to higher standard pressures than the '06. If you handload of course you can turn the tables somewhat, but what for? Just my 2 cents. I haven't sold off any of my '06s ;) but I've also come to like the .308. Modern logistics help. You can still find military .308 ammo that won't break the bank. Not so much with the '06.

JHC

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Trigger Mike said:

I usually hunt with a 30.06 and have for years.  Once in a while I will pull out my dad's 35 Remington to sort of remember him by but now my sons might carry it.  I do have a 308 that I plan to set up for coyote with night vision since 3006 has too much recoil for night scopes.  Currently most of my deer shots have been 100-160 yards away with intermittent trees in between.  Once in a while I jerk the trigger but mostly hit at that range.  the 3006 takes them down fairly hard and even if I graze one by shooting too low it still does not go far.  How does the 308 compare for deer hunting?  Is the ballistics better?  Is the take down the same?  Does one have an advantage over another?  

 

 

I ask since to get rid of a gun I hated since I pinched a nerve in my neck, I had to trade it for a Weatherby Vanguard and leopold scope NIB, and will either let my son have it for Christmas or trade it toward a Kimber and give my son my current Weatherby Vanguard with leopold.  my dealer has a 308 Kimber in stock but can get the 3006.

Why are you jerking the trigger? 

 

If you're anticipating the recoil, might want to look at a lower recoiling round than either the .308 or .30-06.

 

With proper shot placement and quality ammo the .243 will harvest white-tails out to 200 yards. 

 

With bad shot placement the .50 BMG will let one hobble off. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Trigger Mike said:

Looks like I'd be fine either way but be better off with 3006. One thing I like about the 3006 is that I know if I hit it right away, even at range it is hard for me to see.

Not true. You are so wrong here. I have shot a turkey at ten yards with a .308 and a buck at 200 yards with a .30-06 and the reactions of the animals didn't indicate they were hit at all. In the case of the turkey, the sights lifted off the animal and in the case of the buck, the scope went out of focus on the animal. I managed the recoil well enough to see the sights lift. In both cases the ammunition performance  was suboptimal and the animals ran for a ways. 150 grain Core-Lokt is not so good up close(complete jacket separation) and 125 pointed soft points at 200 yards won't make a solid anchor shot(weight retention issues). You've got to pick a good bullet. Barnes TTSX in 130 grain is decent whitetail bullet that will run well in a .30-06 and give you low recoil as well as good weight retention. You can practice with Sierra 125s relatively inexpensively and then check your zero with 130's before heading out. Combine with about 55 grains of CFE-223 and you're cleanly off to the races. Or pick your own powder. I just happen to use that. 

Sounds like you've got a flinch from the recoil and most likely poor hearing protection. Make sure you're using foam or custom molded earplugs under the earmuffs when practicing. Your glasses or safety glasses maybe letting in too much noise. Dry fire with the rifle and see how much it moves when you slowly squeeze the trigger. You may need to rebuild your shooting positions using a rimfire and then an intermediate rifle such as a .223 or .243. I'm an odd duck, I shoot a lot with a hunting rifle before going hunting so that when I shoot at game there are no hesitations and I know what's going on when the trigger breaks. Good luck!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am blessed that I get to hunt quite a bit.  My area is overrun by Axis deer and I have averaged 8-12 deer per year for the last 10 years.   In my experience, there is almost no correlation between caliber and the animal's reaction.  In fact, some of my best shots have left me with the most doubt when I see the deer calmly turn and walk away.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you want to read a data based comparison article between the .308 and .30-06 look here. It has had the data manipulated to make the .308 seem very similar to the .30-06, but if you look closely at you see the recoil is similar in guns of the same weight. Also look at how the ammunition choices have been manipulated there is not a single direct comparison of the same brand and projectile weight. The .30-06 works with projectiles from 110 grains to 220 grains traditionally being strongest in the 180 grain. The .308 just won't do the  heavy bullets as well. The 180 grain was avoided in favor of a Garand load. With modern powders and projectiles the .30-06 can be just as accurate as a .308 and have more downrange power. The biggest difference I see is the decreased wind drift due to the bigger bullets being driven faster at longer ranges...but the .308 proponents try like heaven to hide that data in comparison tests. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

   If I remember right the 06 took over being the caliber that's harvested more game than any other caliber. I think that's world wide. Before the 06 took over the top (around 1970ish) it was the 30-30 Winchester. The 06 gained favor from the number of the vets coming home from WW2 and Korea, and a surplus of rifles chambered in 06.

  I had a Winchester Model 70 in 06 that I used for deer and elk. I used a 150 grain for deer and a 165 grain for Elk. When my knees said enough of this climbing mountains stuff, I sold the 06 and kept my Remington 700 in 270 (130 grain). All I hunted since then was deer and antelope in farm lands. A lot flatter terrain. The 270 will also do a good job on Elk. Shot placement is the key with any caliber. My uncle took quite a few Elk with his Remington 721 in 270. The 308 is a great round too, but I favor the 06 and 270 over that.

  But it's what you prefer and are comfortable with the caliber you choose to hunt with that matters for each person. A 7mm-08 is another good round.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not certain that the .30-30 has been surpassed by the .30-06. I have seen many of them out there and they were cheap for a time. I think the .30-06 is on track to surpass it since bolt rifles are cheaper than levers nowadays. Personally I always thought the .30-30 was a wuss, but I grew up in a .30-06 house where all I ever wanted to do was be big enough to shoot my father's rifle. At 70 pounds I got the chance and I held on for the ride of my life. I never cared about the recoil. It was all part of the fun. I got an autoloader for my birthday one year and I was such a nerd, I knew ahead of time because I found the chamber brush laying around months in advance. It had fallen out of the box. Dreams come true for a young boy. My rifle is as old as I am and I love it to death. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Could I throw another cal in the mix?  If you are recoil sensitive but on deer game....a .260 rem or 6.5 would be great.  Much more efficient bullet to retain more energy at range, although it would give up some  energy in your intended range.  I love the no recoil portion, which means no flinch, which means great placement.  This is assuming you may give one rifle away and acquire another.  To me the .260 has much less recoil pushing a 123 or 140 than a 308.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I never really thought that I am recoil sensitive but not controlling it lately as I got complacent about following the fundamentals and not getting it tight in the shoulder and just putting round down range in a hurry.  I actually don't enjoy shooting a 6.5 x 55 because the recoil is too light. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am a hunter first, a shooter second. I've been hunting big game for over 60 years. I guess I've taken over 100 deer, probably 60or 70 antelope and elk, moose and bear too. I own both 30-06 & 308, with my preference being the 06, strictly because of ballistics. I hunt mostly western states where shoots of 300+ yards are not uncommon. I also reload for everything except rimfire.

 

My preference for deer sized critters is a 25-06. It is much flatter shooting and has less recoil than any of the .30 calibers. I have a M77 Ruger I bought in 1970 in 25-06. Has Leupold scope and shoots less than moa out to 500 yards. My 30-06 and 308 are not used much any more. I also have a .300 Wby which I use for elk & moose.

 

Just my experience of the last 60 years.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.