Buckshot Bear Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 A case study - Adult lead exposure from ammunition reloading and indoor residential shooting ajim.23119.pdf 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jack Black Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 None of it matters if you chelate properly been shooting over 50 yrs and I do what i need to do to remove the lead 24 hrs a day.It is about health Best wishes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tell Sackett SASS 18436 Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 1 minute ago, Texas Jack Black said: None of it matters if you chelate properly been shooting over 50 yrs and I do what i need to do to remove the lead 24 hrs a day.It is about health Best wishes Chelate? Is that anything like Pilates? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bear Posted January 11 Author Share Posted January 11 7 minutes ago, Tell Sackett SASS 18436 said: Chelate? Is that anything like Pilates? Be good if it was Chocolate. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Creek,5759 Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 I was tested a few years ago. Was told everything was good. The nurse said the only person she was aware of that had lead in his system. Was a reenactor, that held the round balls in his mouth. Between reloads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 Any time you have a single subject case study ALL conclusions are suspect. No attempt was made to isolate other sources of lead in the subjects home, immediate surroundings, or other lifestyle activities. Also 3,000 rounds per year is a relatively small number, about 250 per month, and can be easily compared to high volume shooters with round counts of over 1,000 or more per month and lead levels of 4 (like yours truly some months). If the case subject is asymptomatic I just don't understand the "critical" nature of their conclusions regarding future tenents of the home or guests inside. Especially their calls for continuous monitoring of the subject and his home. 12 - 14 is not particularly high for an adult male and I saw they are using the developing child standard of 4 as a max. Regards Gateway Kid 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlands Bob #61228 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 For years I cleaned my brass with Lizard Littler. I had my lead level tested and it showed mine was 22. No adverse effects or symptoms but still higher than my doctor wanted. I'm now more careful about washing my hands after shooting and handling those big steel targets. I also changed over to wet tumbling. I still shoot and reload as much as I ever did. I don't wear a mask or gloves when reloading. We store our target collection in an old transfer truck trailer. I'm guessing that stirring up dust in the target trailer may be a big contributor to my lead level. My lead level was 16 the last time it was checked. Something to monitor and think about 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Mine was 17 last year, my doctor said the main problem from too much lead exposure was anemia and that I was nowhere close to being anemic. He said we should check it yearly but he wasn't worried about it. Randy 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 My own experience is that my lead level was over twice of the subject in the study. I believe that the reloading created minimal exposure. I started wearing a respirator style mask when shooting at indoor ranges and began wet tumbling. Other precautions include washing in cold water after shooting and getting clothing directly into the wash. My lead level is now under 7. I had my wife have her lead level checked at her last physical. Her level was negligible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painted Mohawk SASS 77785 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Be sensible & do what you have to be the healthiest you can be...sometimes it works, other times the levels can creep up, but hey regardless most of us are gunna' shoot & reload anyhow !!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Equanimous Phil Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Maybe, I should also have my lead levels checked as I did a lot of indoor shooting last year. P.S.: Don't google that: 13 hours ago, Bailey Creek,5759 said: balls in his mouth 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Creek Jack Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 My lead level was 17 and my doc wasn’t too concerned but I went to my shop and did a good cleaning got rid of my dry brass cleaner and bought a wet tumbler,careful to wash my hands after shooting and reloading, last time I checked my lead level it was 9. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 (edited) Mine went from 11 a few years ago and being more careful with fumes while casting, I got it down to 5. Curiously, since I went to wet tumbling and haven't done any casting last year, I'm up to 8+ now! Only thing I can think of is since I went to wet tumbling I deprimed all of our brass first. Maybe standing right over my depriming press I got the exposure from the primers. Previously when vibratory tumbling, I used to soak the brass in a Simple Green mix and dry before tumbling. Now that all our brass is all clean in and out I'm going to wet tumble without depriming first and see how the levels get. Prolly should've worn a mask while depriming! Edited January 12 by Eyesa Horg Otto 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison Bud Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 (edited) Nothing really new in this write-up, but it is well done! We have known for years that there is an exposure hazard with shooting and reloading and taking steps to help control this exposure can only be a good thing. Frankly, the biggest exposure hazards in my opinion are the dust from cleaning brass in a vibratory cleaner, which should only be done outside and one should at least wear a particle mask when dumping and shaking out the cleaned brass. I guess wet tumbling could also help to control this issue, but I've never tried it. Then there is the exposure to lead from the primers we use and good ventilation is important to minimize this exposure, especially when shooting indoors. Indoor ranges should have positive air flow downrange and moving away from the shooter with fresh air coming in from the rear. Outdoors is less risk overall, but can still be an exposure hazard, so be aware. I think that the risk of exposure from handling lead and absorption through the skin are minimal, but washing hands after handling is important and not smoking or eating until after washing up are very important as well. The other real exposure hazard in my opinion comes from casting your own bullets. Again, ventilation is important and casting should be done outside if possible. Personally, I cast outside and also place a box type fan behind me while casting. One also needs to not overheat the lead pot as this produces more vapors that can be inhaled. Inhalation is the worst exposure hazard in all these situations so be aware and be careful. As for assembling cartridges on a press, one could wear a mask and rubber gloves, but I don't think the exposure risk there is worth all that. However, you can make your own decision on that one. Anyway, I've been shooting, reloading, and casting my own bullets for over 40 years now and my blood lead levels have never been more than slightly elevated. One simply needs to be aware, use good judgement, and keep their exposure to a minimum. Good luck and good shooting to all. Edited January 12 by Bison Bud additional info 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cholla Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 A study I read 20 years ago recommended eating raw onions and garlic to remove heavy metals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 24 minutes ago, Bison Bud said: One also needs to not overheat the lead pot as this produces more vapors that can be inhaled. It would take A LOT higher temperature than most of us use to make lead vapor levels be significant. You would oxidize the tin and antimony out of the lead alloy before you vaporize some lead. Be careful with the powdery dross (crud) that you scrape off a casting furnace pool, though. Since that is dry and sometimes a very fine powder, dispose of it carefully and don't let a fan blow THAT stuff around. And, it usually contains oxides of heavy metals (arsenic, calcium, antimony, bismuth, tin, lead) which are very poisonous and able to be absorbed by lungs and mucous membranes much more readily than metals are. Another source of contamination to be cautious about - cartridges when fired blow most of the lead oxides from the fired primer out the barrel or the cylinder gap. Into the air. Prolonged timer operation duty can leave you breathing in this lead compound particulate. Not just your own primers, but all primers of those you time for, can be an exposure source. And, lead pellets from shotguns disintegrating on impact into very small fragments with shotgun knockdown plates is a real source of inhalation of lead, depending upon wind direction and distance. good luck, GJ 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gungadin Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Chelate properly? Make sure you do your own research. Don't trust the doctors that want to chelate you without asking some questions. You might read about Andy Cutler and his protocol for mercury, lead etc. IV chelation is more aggressive as I understand and well you know what they call the guy that finished last in his Med School class? Doctor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypress Sun Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 1 hour ago, Cholla said: A study I read 20 years ago recommended eating raw onions and garlic to remove heavy metals. Keeps intrusive people and vampires away also...best of both worlds. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cholla Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 9 minutes ago, Gungadin said: Chelate properly? Make sure you do your own research. Don't trust the doctors that want to chelate you without asking some questions. You might read about Andy Cutler and his protocol for mercury, lead etc. IV chelation is more aggressive as I understand and well you know what they call the guy that finished last in his Med School class? Doctor Statistically speaking, 50% of all doctors graduated at the bottom of their class. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 (edited) It should also be noted when it comes to "Studies" just exactly WHO sponsored and payed for said study. Many many studies are begun with an agenda. Also to be noted, some studies, as above, pontificate a "worst case" scenario and then participate in directed "fear" mongering. The study doesn't actually show anything seriously bad but lets find a way run up the "fear factor" anyway. If the results don't support your position, simply skew the numbers for the desired outcome. It is my understanding (don't quote me) that the only meaningful method of lead contamination requires ingestion as opposed to simple skin contact. Don't get yer tidy whites inna wad unless yer Primary Care Doc exclaims "Holy Krap." Edited January 12 by Colorado Coffinmaker I hate OTTO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 As my wife and I leave a range we wash our hands with D-Lead soap. It cleans my hands well after working on an automobile too. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Some people are more susceptible to lead poisoning than others. I worked 23 years in a lead smelter, and spent 4-6 months every year on in-plant medical removal for high blood lead. Others would walk around all day with their respirators hanging around their necks, sometimes working in buildings where you couldn't see the far wall due to smoke & fume, and never be above the low-teens. The place shut down in 2001, but even only 23 years ago, the standards were ridiculous compared to today. I think the removal level was something like 38 or 40, and when it dropped to the low 20's, they'd send me back out in the plant. When I have my periodic physical at the VA, I always request a blood lead level, and the last one a month ago came back @ 21.8 ug/dL. I haven't been to a match since mid-October, no reloading, etc. It's been as high as 31 if I've been shooting matches regularly before a blood draw. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waimea Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 said: As my wife and I leave a range we wash our hands with D-Lead soap. It cleans my hands well after working on an automobile too. Saved me from having to mention it. Here's a couple things to think about: Do you eat on the range when you're shooting? Maybe some nice person brought chocolate chip cookies and you grabbed 2 or 3. I used to. This was me back when I was doing more spotting and steel setting. I LOVE COOKIES! So like someone mentioned above that lead gets all over your hands. Then you eat a delicious cookie. You're eating lead! I believe that was my number one problem. Number two was even though I washed my hands before eating lunch with the Pards the soap wasn't DLead. Regular soap might get some lead off your hands but DLead gets it all. My lead count went from 24 to 11 in 8 weeks. Edited January 12 by Waimea 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Loading and shooting coated bullets can also reduce one's exposure to metallic lead. If one prevents lead from entering one's body, medical intervention to remove lead is not needed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefro, SASS#69420 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 I melt scrape lead (mostly wheel weights) and pour about six differant molds. Lubsize three BP and three smokeless. Hand wash after each handling. Had my levels checked at last blood work a couple of months ago. Mine was an 8 I have my liver enzimes checked each year plus lead levels. I feel very lucky. JefroRelax-Enjoy 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Jack Black Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 43 minutes ago, Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 said: Loading and shooting coated bullets can also reduce one's exposure to metallic lead. If one prevents lead from entering one's body, medical intervention to remove lead is not needed. If you stay healthy and eat the right foods the natural way handles this exposure from reloading. Medical intervention for adults is for special circumstances. Yes, I am tiptoeing around this as not to offend some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oak Ridge Regulator Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 There is a lot scare tactics going around about lead theses days. Here in New England if a paint chip from an old house falls off within 5 miles of a school the snowflakes here start screaming about everyone dying from lead poisoning. Use some common sense, don’t eat your bullets, wash your hands, maybe wear a set of gloves when you clean your guns and don’t snort the dust off your reloading bench and most of us will be just fine. Lead is mostly poisonous if it’s shot into you 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 2 hours ago, Oak Ridge Regulator said: don’t eat your bullets, 2 hours ago, Oak Ridge Regulator said: don’t snort the dust off your reloading bench Man, now you're taking all the fun out of it. Randy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Duncan Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 On 1/11/2024 at 5:21 PM, Buckshot Bear said: A case study - Adult lead exposure from ammunition reloading and indoor residential shooting ajim.23119.pdf 859.35 kB · 48 downloads Thank you for posting. Found it a interesting read. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bear Posted January 13 Author Share Posted January 13 17 minutes ago, Matthew Duncan said: Thank you for posting. Found it a interesting read. Thanks Matthew... I think we're all good to enjoy our shooting and reloading with just a bit of common sense. When I was a young boy we all kept our air rifle pellets under our tongues so we could spit one out into our fingers for quick shooting. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlin Schofield Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 The Best prevention is to wash your hands after shooting. loading, cleaning, eating, drinking etc. with D-Lead by Esca Tech, Inc. www.esca-tech.com (414) 962-5323 made in Milwaukee WI. U.S.A. it removes all toxic heavy metals and washes the dirt/grime away too. They sell it in all different sizes direct and will even support your Annuals with sample packs for the shooter bags, just fill out the request online and order a gallon too or you can buy it at Brownells. The gal pump style jugs age perfect for Annuals & Monthly matches and the 8oz is perfect for the gun cart.. We had to put wash stations at all of our stages per Newsolini's Covid Doctrine and that was the only good thing that came out of Covid at DDCT. I bring a bottle and samples to my RO classes to educate the students...especially the Youngin's and their parents. In Newsolini's Ca. a double digit reading can get you a letter from the State & County Health Dept. asking how, where and why you were exposed. Remember lead is heavy and clings to skin, facial/head hair and clothes, take your clothes off outside, then straight to the laundry and the into the shower. Lead levels can be checked both by blood or urine at your annual physical, just ask your Doc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bear Posted January 13 Author Share Posted January 13 Reading the D-Lead MSDS, is there any special ingredient in it compared to any other garage/mechanic hand cleaner? https://www.cagroup.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/DLeadHandSoap.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster Ron Wayne Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 Hell if I believed all that crap . I would be blind and have hairy palms by now 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 We carry the D-Lead towlettes in our cart. Don't always use them though. I do use the soap after playing in the reloading room. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windy City Kid Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 23 hours ago, Cholla said: A study I read 20 years ago recommended eating raw onions and garlic to remove heavy metals. Gets rid of girlfriends too! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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