Bison Bud

Maybe she's already a competent shotgun shooter, but if not I have to agree with those that have already stated that the shotgun recoil may be a problem for your wife and should probably be the first gun purchased for her to use rather than trying to share one. Even with light loads, the shotgun will produce far more recoil than any other one of her CAS guns and if it hurts her, it could change her whole attitude about the game. The gun needs to fit her properly and have a good recoil pad as well. It might also be a good idea to fill the hole in the back of the stock with lead shot or have a "Dead Mule" installed as the added weight will reduce the felt recoil considerably. Shooting technique is also important and it can be difficult to explain to a newbie that pulling the butt stock firmly into the shoulder and leaning into the recoil can actually help to control it. Obviously, light loads are a must and there are both commercial loads available as well as many handload recipes if you can roll your own. I personally don't see any real advantage to 20 ga. over 12 ga, as the 12 ga. can be loaded to similar levels and light commercial loads are usually available where most 20 ga. commercial loads are either hunting or target loads which can kick like a mule. In any case, get her out and let her shoot the shotgun before ever going to shoot a match. As others have already stated, it would be a good idea to go to a match and ask to try another lady shooter's shotgun to gain her confidence and possibly decide just what to get for her. As far as rifle and revolver calibers, the vast majority of CAS shooters use the .38 Special and I believe it is a good overall choice. Whether you load the same rounds or different rounds for the rifle and revolvers is more a personal choice than anything, but starting out it would be easier to load the same for both. Your .357 Magnum dies should work fine once readjusted to load .38 Special and you can shoot .38 Special in most .357 Magnum guns. Once fired brass is also generally available and often free for the effort to pick them up at my local Sportsman's Club range. As for bullet weights, don't get hung up on using very light bullets, as the claimed recoil advantage is way overblown in this game and even factory loaded 158 grainers are generally very managable by most folks. I personally wouldn't go lower than 125 grain and I too would recommend the truncated cone bullet shape, as it has proved to be the most reliable in feeding all of my rifles, especially at speed. As for choosing a load, remember that lighter bullets generally need more propellant to produce enough pressure for smokeless powders to burn properly, shoot cleanly, and reliably. Really light loads can cause bullets to stick in barrel or forcing cone and be dangerous if a followup shot is fired and as already stated, the .38 Special is a pretty reasonable load to start with at factory loaded levels anyway. As far as what type guns, grips, etc. to buy, these are very personal choices and things like the Bisley grip verses the Plowhandle can feel and perform very differently from shooter to shooter. Frankly, much of being successful in this game is in using what works for you and only you can make these choices successfully. As previously stated, it would be a really good idea to go to a match and try to shoot guns you are interested in before shelling out the cash and possibly making a costly mistake. As for shotguns, I would recommend a SXS at least to start. They are generally easier to learn to shoot than a 97 pump and have fewer moving parts to maintain, but there are plenty of 97 pumps available out there as well. For rifles the number one choice in CAS is the 1873 levergun, but the Marlins are popular as well. Marlins can be finicky about cartridge length and recent manufactured guns have not been the same quality as they were before Marlin sold out. However, Ruger is now ramping up to produce them and considering their reputation, most of us expect the quality to return. Revolvers are probably the biggest personal choice to make, with the Ruger VQ's probably being the best bang for the bucks. However, many prefer the SAA action, feel , and authenticity. While real Colts may require a second mortgage, the Italian clones are affordable, but do have some quality issues from time to time and virtually all of them will need some work before being reliable match guns. All in all, getting together everything needed can be both expensive and frustrating, but in the long run can be very rewarding as well. I wish you the best of luck and hope that you and your wife can enjoy this game for many years to come!

Maybe not the best solution, but maybe the lever is bent or can be enough to work.???

Out of the two replacement surgeries I have had, left knee and right shoulder, the shoulder replacement was by far the easiest and most productive. However, I had severe complications with the knee replacement, due to a staph infection, which required 3 additional surgeries and left me half crippled before they were done. The reason I mention this is that everyone takes a real risk with any surgery and the results are simply not guaranteed by any means. Even without complications the final results can vary quite a bit from person to person. This type of surgery is a choice that should be carefully considered, while they are very good at doing these replacements and the risks are lower than even a few years back, but anything can happen and the end results can indeed be life changing either way! Although I didn't have the "Reverse" shoulder procedure done, the replacement went perfectly, I recovered quickly, and the only ill effect is that it is now impossible to reach around back as far as I used. This required me to install a bidet attachment on our home toilet, but was an easy fix. Otherwise, there is far less pain and shoulder functions quite well and far better than before the surgery. Except for the reach around effect, it's like a brand new shoulder and considering the pain it was giving me, the surgery was a good choice and I'm glad I went ahead with it! As far as shooting, I've had no noticeable effects whatsoever with the shoulder and I hope yours goes as well. Good luck and good shooting to all.

This is very interesting! While I understand the safety notch thing, I still have to wonder why I sent two USFA Rodeos to a local Cowboy action gunsmith that were clearly 4 click and after he worked on them they were clearly 3 click. When I asked him about that he said that they were set up so that the last two clicks happened at the same time and that was the way he set them up for cowboy action. I thought it odd at the time, but the guns worked just fine and I shot them for two full seasons without any issues whatsoever. However, I still don't know why this might be better or any sort of advantage, which is primarily why I posted here. Unfortunately, I no longer have these two SAA's to check this out, but I'd bet that the safety notch was still there as I am most certain that the hammers were not replaced. Frankly, I think he set up the bolt drop and the final cock click to happen at the same time, but I guess I need to study up a bit on how the SAA action really is supposed to work. In any case, thanks for the input!

It is my understanding (and correct me if I'm wrong) that the difference in the 3 click and 4 click action is that on the 3 click the last two operations occur at the same time. Basically, all 4 clicks are still there, it's just that the last two don't occur individually. I also think that the 4 click action is the original/basic setup and that the 3 click is a modification that was intended to be some sort of improvement or advantage of some sort. Could someone/anyone with more knowledge on this please describe what happens with each of the 4 clicks and what is actually modified to convert to 3 click? I would also be real interested in hearing if there is a real mechanical advantage or even a perceived advantage to one over the other. Thanks and good shooting all.

I read the first two pages of this thread and already feel like the subject is being beaten up pretty bad! However, I feel the need to say that "Costuming" is only one aspect of the game and it's set up to accommodate as many as possible. Frankly, looking down on someone for either dressing up or down is simply not in the best interest of the game! Personally, I've never liked playing dress up and Halloween is my least favorite holiday because of it. I almost didn't even bother to come out and participate because of the dress requirements, but in the long run I'm glad that I did. Since I wore orthopedic shoes long before I started shooting Cowboy, I also really struggled with the footwear and often found it really difficult to even finish a match with proper boots, etc. While I agree that folks should not wear sneakers, or silly footwear like the boot sandals shown earlier in this post, no one should care about wearing good lace up work boots that can be fitted with orthopedic insoles, etc. I also have trouble believing that no cowboy ever wore short sleeves, but it is what it is and rolled up sleeves appear to be acceptable. Frankly, I've learned to really like the cowboy hats and wear one fairly often, especially the palm leaf type while working in the yard, but I will also wear my good beaver felt hat when going out around town, etc. All in all, I guess I am one of those minimalists when it comes to playing dress up, but I've always met the requirements and I've never looked down on someone that dressed to the nines cowboy style. Geeze, we even created dress up categories to help satisfy those that want costuming to be a bigger part of their experience and still they want to look down and/or complain about those that wish to keep it simple and comfortable, etc. I'm sorry, I just don't get it!

Frankly, it more about the price gouging going on! I don't have any problems with paying a fair price for something, but many of us don't like being taken advantage of and that seems to be the name of the game. Adios.

I too think that current primer prices are severely inflated. While I do expect increases and can deal with a realistic increase, I still feel that primer prices are through the roof and that this is primarily due to panic buying and hoarding. If folks can get these prices easily, then why sell them for less? Frankly, the only way these prices will come back to earth is if folks stop paying these inflated prices and I am encouraged by the responses so far on this post. It will take time, but as more and more primers become available the prices will find their realistic level. If you can't hold out until then, then do what you have to do to keep shooting, but stocking up and hording at these prices could turn out to be a bad decision in the long run. Good luck and good shooting to all.

I wouldn't use 9mm bullets to load .38 Special or .357 Mag and definately not the other way around. Although the difference is small, 9mm bullets are indeed smaller and would probably be less accurate and also allow gas cutting that could lead the barrel pretty quickly with lead bullets. You might get away with it on jacketed bullets, but still the accuracy would probably suffer. However, I have resized some .358 lead pills and used them to load 9mm without issues.

While I have used a permanent marker to mark and identify some ammo, primarily my black powder loads, I pretty much expect to lose some brass pretty much every time I go out to shoot (practice or competition). Frankly, clean and shiny brass is probably your best option for making the spent cases the easiest to find and although I seldom use it, because it seems to split easier, nickel plated brass is probably the easiest to recover as well. Also, the type of rifle one shoots can make a big difference in brass recovery as my Marlin Carbine tends to throw cases forward of the firing line which makes then only recoverable after the match or on a cold range, while my 73 Border rifle tends to throw the cases up and back, which at least gives the brass pickers a chance to recover them during a match. In any case, losing a few rounds is pretty much inevitable and I doubt that any other colored brass is going to make enough difference to be worth the cost and effort required. Although, I'd love to get it all back, losing some is simply part of the cost of shooting.

I'm not sure if the lower round pictured is supposed to be okay or not, but the upper one does indeed appear to have problems. Looks to me like an excessive crimp may be most of the problem and it's also bulging and/or crushing the case. Back out the crimp die and start over on the setting, might be a good idea to remove it and clean out any lube or other debris as well. Good luck!

Nothing wrong with the Hornady loaders, but Dillion is "King of the Hill." I have a Hornady progressive shotshell loader that's at least 30 years old and has loaded literally 10's of thousands of shotshells without problems and it's still going strong. It can be difficult to recover if something goes wrong (like split a case, forget a primer or wad, or forget to open the powder or shot drop first time around), but that's true of most any progressive loader. I also have a Dillion 550b and although it doesn't auto index and only has four die positions on the toolhead, I think it's about as good as it gets for maximum control, quality results, ease of use, and overall durability and performance. The only rifle round I currently load is the 45-70 and I too do that on a single stage press instead of the progressive. However, the Dillion will handle it with proper conversion plate and dies and will also handle just about any rifle round you might care to load. All in all, I don't think you can go wrong with either the Hornady or the Dillion, but Dillion's customer service is top of the line and they generally replace major parts at no cost to the user should they be needed. You do have to purchase some of the consumables like the little plastic tips for the primer tubes, but they also offer a maintenance kit that includes these parts at a very reasonable cost. Good luck on your choice, considering the way things are currently it might just come down to which one is actually available when your ready to jump. Good luck and good shooting to all.

Max, your a class act and I enjoyed your post, as well as shooting with you over the years! Good luck and good shooting to you and yours.

I for one have always felt that one of the real advantages of "rolling my own" (reloading) was that I could tune my ammo to the particular gun and purpose and I generally try to shoot what each gun likes best, especially at an important match. I can't say that I haven't shot the same ammo in both the rifle and revolvers for convenience sake, but I generally shoot ammo that has proved to be my best choice in each type of firearm. I've put many a round downrange over my chronograph, used a timer to check split times, and patterned my ammo on paper many times to determine what actually works best and have enjoyed the process as well. When I shot a Marlin as my main match rifle, I either loaded .357 Magnum cases or long crimped .38's so they would feed better and the overall performance in accuracy and consistency of DEWC bullets in the revolvers is undeniable, but they won't feed in a lever action rifle at all. So, I generally do shoot different ammo using different components in rifle and revolvers and bullet weight is just one factor. Also as other's have stated, less recoil is not always a good thing and this is especially true for a Gunfighter or Duelist. Shooting GF, I have found that a 148 grain DEWC at about 800 fps is my best choice and it provides just enough recoil to help me re-cock one revolver while shooting the other one. Frankly, I think the whole low recoil equals faster shooting thing has been way overblown in our sport. It really boils down to what one gets used to using and becomes consistent with using far more than lighter recoil. Of course heavy recoil can cause some issues, but .38's are rather mild to start with and downloading them until they barely come out of the barrel makes no sense at all. In any case, if you've found what works for you and are willing to go the extra mile in preparation, then good on you! Also wish to thank the Pard that posted the China Camp video, I really enjoyed it and own a pair of USFA "China Camp" revolvers. Good luck and good shooting to all. Adios

Sold pending payment on 3/5/2022 I have an Elgin, lever set, pocketwatch up for sale that per serial number appears to have been made around 1892. It has an engraved coin silver, hunter style case (covered dial), and is in good working order. I would like to get $200.00, which is what I paid for it almost 20 years ago and I am posting here to see if there is any interest. I can send pictures if someone shows real interest. Please contact me via personal message on this site and I will respond with photos and personal contact information if needed. Thanks for looking and good luck and good shooting to all. I've had some interest requesting photos and decided to add them here as well. Thanks!

Tom/Lassiter is without a doubt one of the best, if not the very best, Lightning Rifle smiths out there and frankly, he was the first one I saw that actually got one to work well and man, can he make one sing on the range! He also shoots a lever action shotgun with great success and mildly put, it's impressive to watch. He is also one of the best all around gunsmiths I know of and has worked on both cowboy and more modern guns for me with great success. Tom is also one of the finest, most competitive Gunfighters in the game and has been a great inspiration, resource, and Mentor to me. I think he is as upstanding and outstanding example of the spirit of this game as anyone could be! Good luck and good shooting to all.

If the lubed ones are indeed quicker, then doesn't that also imply that the unlubed ones will increase the pressures needed to force them out of the barrel?

I think when answering the Op's original questions it is important to define the term "Light Load." There is much published data for light, target type, loads that should be the accepted definition, however, I have seen some extremely light, Wildcat loads, used in this game that are far lighter than these tested and published loads and this type of experimentation is indeed dangerous! Some of these loads barely even make it out of the barrel and at one local match I personally witnessed a guy that stuck bullets in his revolvers on every stage and didn't seem to worry much about it. Frankly, if I was the RO or Match Director, I would have asked him to either change ammo or come back another day! Unfortunately, these type of light loads are in use far too often due to the belief that light loads equal more speed. It also seems that we see lighter and lighter bullets for our popular calibers, most of which have little or no published load data and all in the quest of less recoil and more speed. Frankly, I think the whole light load equals more speed thing is way over-blown and all too often abused in our game. At least to me, the true beauty of hand-loading is the ability to tailor one's loads to their end use and to the specific firearm involved, but creating "Wildcat" loads should be left to the professionals. One can work well within the published limits to tailor their loads and be very effective in doing so. Although accuracy is not a big priority in this game, I have found that even small changes in loads can produce some very real changes in the overall performance of some firearms, not the least of which is point of aim verses point of impact. Personally, I like to shoot what the guns like and take the time to pattern and chronograph my loads for the best performance of my guns, then I learned to shoot those loads in them. While it can be easier/simpler to shoot the same load in both revolvers and rifle and I have done so, I think it's worth the effort to produce and use different loads for my rifle than that used in the revolvers to obtain best overall performance in each. I guess shooting Gunfighter style does allow me to shoot a bit stronger handgun loads than most would prefer, since a bit of recoil actually seems to help me when recocking for the next shot while shooting the other gun from the other hand. Anyway, I generally shoot a 140 grain pill or a 148 grain wadcutter that clocks at about 800 ft/sec and have been pretty competitive overall. As for my rifle loads I like to keep them subsonic (900 to 1000 fps) and use that same 140 grain pill in either .38 Special or .357 Magnum cases. However, my first Marlin, 24" octagon barreled rifle, wouldn't pattern well unless I loaded them a bit hotter and at least for me, it was a prime example of how different loads can perform in different guns . Anyway, these loads shoot accurately at 50 yards better than I can see the targets at that distance and recoil is near negligible in both my main match, 73 border rifle, and my backup Marlin carbine. Honestly, the rifle is my best skill and I've even won a few speed rifle side matches with these loads. Anyway, my point here is that especially the newbies should not get caught up in the quest for light loads to increase speed. Most of becoming competitive in this game is simply getting used to and proficient with the tools you have to use and even factory loads can get you to that point. When you get good enough to need to shave 1/10's of a second off your times, then maybe a lighter load will help. Otherwise, don't worry about it and get out there and have fun! As for the light load detonation thing, I think that sticking a bullet in the barrel or forcing cone is a far bigger danger and I have actually seen this happen all too often with the use of excessively light loads. Good luck and good shooting to all.

Clays and/or Red dot are fine powders to use in the .38 Special, but neither will come close to not allowing a double charge in the amounts normally used. This bulked up feature was indeed a major selling point for Trailboss and I know of no other smokeless powder that bulks up that much. However, Unique may be the next best thing, as it is bulky and depending on the load used a double charge should be noticable pretty easily. Good luck and good shooting to all.

Yes indeed on the BP lube for smokeless loads. I personally use homemade BP lube on all my hand cast bullets from .38 Special to 45/70 and have had no issues whatsoever.

Personally, I always loved the action type targets with the "Knockdown/Throw-up" targets, Texas Star, Clay bird fliers, cable runners, and things to break, etc. However, I think that they have fallen out of favor in CAS, due to the fact that they take more time to shoot through and too many people complained about them, at least at the bigger matches. Seems that folks prefer big targets, fast scenarios, and primarily 10 X 10 X 4 stages. Geese, you even move a rifle target out to anything past 15 yards and the backlash is incredible and Lord help the Match Director that writes in a bonus target, especially if it takes some effort to hit! Frankly, I understand the need to keep the revolver targets big and close, but have always thought the rifle sequences should be more than just how fast I can cycle the thing. Rifles are made to be accurate out to way past the distances we use in CAS and can still be shot quickly with a bit more challenge than 16" plates at 15 yards. Don't get me wrong, I understand how important it is, especially at a big match with lots of shooters, to not have a stage bog down and hold up the posses, but I also liked the variety and the challenge that these action type and somewhat more challenging targets brought to the game. In any case, I haven't shot in a while now, due to medical issues, but during the last couple years that I shot regularly, the action type targets were pretty much gone and if you did see one, it was at a small local match rather than a big one. I seriously doubt that this has changed much in the last couple years, but I'd say bring' em back if I was asked about it. Good luck and good shooting to all.

I'd be willing to bet that there will not be a one piece firing pin or a half cock safety!