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New Shot shell Taper Crimp Die-works great


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I have been using this for a while and it works fantastic---and I have no financial interest in this product.  Just want to share the news

 

QuikLoader
By Roger Siminoff (SASS alias "Roger Rapid")
 

QuikLoader
QuikLoader Kit Parts
QuikLoader
   QuikLoader Installed on MEC

QuikLoader puts a 3° SASS-legal taper in the leading 1/2″ of your 12‑gauge shotshells to facilitate the feeding of shotshells into your shotgun and cut seconds off your score. No more fumbling!

QuikLoader not only improves feeding in break‑action, Side‑by‑Side and Over/Under shotguns, it also improves feeding on Winchester Model '97 pump‑action and Model '87 lever‑action shotguns, too!

Fits on MEC Jr or MEC Sizemaster
Replaces the First Crimping Die
Change-out is a Snap & Does Not
Upset any of the MEC's Settings
Available for 12GA Only

 


 

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Just wondering... mostly because i dont ever do this in any way when making BP shells for either my 12ga double or my 87... but what is the technical difference between using a tapering die specifically made for a 12ga shell, and "necking" the shell with any other die that doesn't say "12GA" on it (other than is gets around the rule stated below by having "12ga" stamped on the tool).

 

Not trying to stir the pot, I am just curious because I can see how this may aid feeding in my 87, and even in getting the shells into my double.

 

The excerpt below is from the current shooters handbook:

image.png.d6f6544d1e2de1f04d898d25b100dc71.png

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Cole Younger: Thanks for the post and glad you're having success with QuikLoader.

 

Crazy Gun Barney: This die is made specifically for 12 ga and is very similar to the clean-up die RCBS used to make.  It doesn't "neck" the shell or "cone" it. Instead it does a final sizing of the shell after it is crimped (the final crimping usually bulges  the case slightly). Also, the force of the final crimp usually puts a small roll-edge on the shell (see left shell in photo below). So, in one step QuikLoader does a final-sizing as well as a minor taper on the last 1/2˝ of the shell (shell on right in photo below). A minor difference in the cartridge but really helps them drop into a s/s.

RR

Win AA and WL shells web.jpg

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1 hour ago, Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428 said:

Just wondering... mostly because i dont ever do this in any way when making BP shells for either my 12ga double or my 87... but what is the technical difference between using a tapering die specifically made for a 12ga shell, and "necking" the shell with any other die that doesn't say "12GA" on it (other than is gets around the rule stated below by having "12ga" stamped on the tool).

 

Not trying to stir the pot, I am just curious because I can see how this may aid feeding in my 87, and even in getting the shells into my double.

 

The excerpt below is from the current shooters handbook:

image.png.d6f6544d1e2de1f04d898d25b100dc71.png

 

Necked down shotgun shells are distinctly "bottle nosed".  I don't know of any factory made shells of this type.  But that hasn't stopped people from trying.  I'm thinking that would certainly increase pressures.   Martini-Henry once made a shotgun that used a 14ga bottle-nose shell, but I don't have any pictures of that.

 

Folks have also tried it this way, partially crimped with an overshot card... which is definitely illegal.  Notice the bit of a bottle-neck towards the base.  I don't think that's legal either.

 

Greener_zpsrxqrxln8.jpg.f871bae9e0e20c37898f6fe568343971.jpg

 

Edited by McCandless
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Good deal.   So what is the final diameter at the end of the 12ga shell after being tapered?  I dont have a shell here at work with me, but SAAMI dims on Google show a 12ga to have a .797" diameter.  With a simple 3° taper, that reduces the end to .745", a difference of .052".  That doesn't sound like much, but keep in mind the difference between a 32 long and a 38 special is only .045" in diameter.

 

My 87 is 10ga.  So, I am assuming that the 1/2" depth and the 3° taper are not random dimensions, there is a reason behind them.  So if an eager machinist were to develop a similar tool for 10ga, do you think the 3° and 1/2" depth rule is the acceptable taper?

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If it helps CGB, I use mine on a MEC 600 JR.  After loading each shell, I measured the taper from base to end at between .003 and .005.  I am away from home on a fire so I can't give you actual dimensions but it isn't a huge difference.

 

I am most pleased with the fact the shell is "Trued" so they pass the shell checker every time and drop nicely into the chambers.

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13 minutes ago, Go West said:

The original rule banning tapered shells was due to the use of a 16 ga. die on 12 ga. shells.

So there is a "rule based" limit to the allowed taper (both depth and angle)?

Edited by Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428
one of these days I will learn to type correctly...
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Crazy Gun Barney:  Thx for the question. After being tapered, the shells are measuring .793˝-.795˝ in the middle of the case. The cases I just measured are not PERFECTLY round - which I believe is due to deformities in the case and wad and not to the die. The very end of the case after being tapered (a DoubleAA Winchester) measures .765˝-.767˝ - about .030˝ difference. (Your calculation of a 32° taper delivering a .745˝ result is right, but the cases are "plastic" and the diameter rebounds a bit.

 

However, the feed edge of the shell is where the big difference is, and this is the edge that gets in the way when feeding doubles into a s/s. In the photo I posted above, the rolled edge of the untapered case (left in photo, a regular shell out of the MEC) was .803˝-.808˝!! - showing a rather not-perfectly-round crimp end that is almost .040˝ larger than what QuikLoader does.

RR

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I've been known to run them thru a sizer to ensure they are not bulged, but I always read the rules I copied earlier as eliminating the possibility of reducing the diameter of a shell specifically to make them easier to chamber than standard factory ammo.

Edited by Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428
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Marshal Fire...

Re: vendor? ... at the moment, they can be purchased from UniqueTek, Coyote's  Mercantile, or directly from me by clicking on this link.

 

(Regarding price, please check with the various resources above so I don't make this sound like a commercial post.)

 

Yes, they absolutely can be used on factory (non-"reloaded") ammo. 

RR

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Larsen...

 

You obviously don't know the old cowboy song: "You Better Not Make Fun of My Slime Green MEC!"

 

Just sayin'...

 

* About 8 or 9 years ago they had a promotion and their MEC Jrs were slime green. It absolutely keeps me from falling asleep when I'm loading shotshells!!!!!!!!

 

See ya at Bordertown!

 

RR

 

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Twenty years ago, or more, I made a similar die from a .50 BMG case for 20 gauge shells. It's a bit time consuming, as it's made to be used in a single stage Rock Chucker and the shell has to be pushed in, then the die turned over and pushed back out, but it smooths out the crimp bulge nicely.

20gTaper.jpg

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Looks interesting. 

 

For me...I gotta use either a no crimp shell, or a rolled-crimp shell, in my Parker double, with damascus barrels.

I have one of those old timey iron, roll-crimp devices, that were popular way back in the day. It's old, but works great. 

 

Thanks for your post.

 

W.K.  

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2 hours ago, Major Art Tillery said:

Yep, Legal to use


Not to be obnoxious, but PWB has yet to post.

 

Kinda hoping you are right, though.

 

 

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It's probably good that someone is filling this gap in the MEC process, but the ability to do this has been around for 40 years or more.   Just one of the machines that produces this AS PART OF ITS NORMAL PROCESS, is the Hornady 366 progressive, I believe there are others that will produce similar results as delivered, but this is what I've used for the last 30 years.  The first 2 pics are some of my crappy reloads  for practice.(they look even better on once or twice fired hulls for matchs)  It's entertaining to see the comments that pop up when someone rediscovers what's possible, or what was/is available from the factory.   You'll notice the factory AA load in the 2nd 2 pics is identical for all practical purposes.  It's a shame AA's quality has slipped so much, but STS's are still being made nicely.(insert much hand wringing about cost/availability)  For all the hand wringing rules people, who, what and how would you measure any of it?  Set actual dimensional go/no go?  Check using calibrated calipers, or micrometers?  Compressed plastic or touching lightly?  Its a ridiculous notion.  I've never seen a match director/RO bother to look at someones ammo(most/all of what we're discussing is hidden in the shotshell belt).  What's next, ammo checks at major matches?!   Ammo checks at the line?  Seems like everyone is walking around with an orange sizer on the posse, just before they shoot these days, wish I'd a dreamt that one up.  I'd be more concerned about what some people put IN the shells, than how they look.  Back in the day of crappy knockdowns, a lot of us were experimenting with double loads of shot ahead of guessed at powder charges with cut down wads.:o  There is only so much deformation of the plastic hull that the basic shape will retain, this new gizmo doesn't appear to do as much as is possible with other readily available methods, but if you have a MEC, and want to fool with it, it appears to make better looking and likely functioning ammo.  Clearly it's not something that could be regulated. 

20211014_074620_resized.jpg

20211014_074623_resized.jpg

20211014_074636_resized.jpg

20211014_074638_resized.jpg

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I had several boxes of reloaded Win AA shells that went fine through the case check, but eventually the crimp edge expanded and would fail the check.  I'd run them through the press again and all would be fine, but they'd still expand with time.  So, I have something like this mounted on my gun cart, and run all shells through it prior to use on a stage.  It works like magick! 

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I make a practice of re-crimping my shells the evening before a match.  It re-sizes the crimp end bulge and any out-of -roundness from relaxation of the plastic in storage.  It only takes a few minutes to run 100 shells through the final crimp die.  I also put them through a MEC Supersizer, but honestly, I don't see much benefit form that.  The brass doesn't seem to change much after re-sizing during loading. 

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A rolled crimp on the drill press will give almost if not the same profile.  Will also take the cheap plastic shells and melt them into nice looking crimp.  Same with the AA with the folds no longer holding.  Melt them back and good for one more go.

The taper is very visible even to the naked eye.
 

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9 hours ago, Fireball #7709 Life said:

It's probably good that someone is filling this gap in the MEC process, but the ability to do this has been around for 40 years or more.   Just one of the machines that produces this AS PART OF ITS NORMAL PROCESS, is the Hornady 366 progressive, I believe there are others that will produce similar results as delivered, but this is what I've used for the last 30 years.  The first 2 pics are some of my crappy reloads  for practice.(they look even better on once or twice fired hulls for matchs)  It's entertaining to see the comments that pop up when someone rediscovers what's possible, or what was/is available from the factory.   You'll notice the factory AA load in the 2nd 2 pics is identical for all practical purposes.  It's a shame AA's quality has slipped so much, but STS's are still being made nicely.(insert much hand wringing about cost/availability)  For all the hand wringing rules people, who, what and how would you measure any of it?  Set actual dimensional go/no go?  Check using calibrated calipers, or micrometers?  Compressed plastic or touching lightly?  Its a ridiculous notion.  I've never seen a match director/RO bother to look at someones ammo(most/all of what we're discussing is hidden in the shotshell belt).  What's next, ammo checks at major matches?!   Ammo checks at the line?  Seems like everyone is walking around with an orange sizer on the posse, just before they shoot these days, wish I'd a dreamt that one up.  I'd be more concerned about what some people put IN the shells, than how they look.  Back in the day of crappy knockdowns, a lot of us were experimenting with double loads of shot ahead of guessed at powder charges with cut down wads.:o  There is only so much deformation of the plastic hull that the basic shape will retain, this new gizmo doesn't appear to do as much as is possible with other readily available methods, but if you have a MEC, and want to fool with it, it appears to make better looking and likely functioning ammo.  Clearly it's not something that could be regulated. 

20211014_074620_resized.jpg

20211014_074623_resized.jpg

20211014_074636_resized.jpg

20211014_074638_resized.jpg

My 45+ year old Mec 600jr crimps like that

OLG 

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On 10/13/2021 at 5:30 PM, Marshal Fire, SASS 10064 said:

who is the vendor for this die? Price ?

I assume also works on factory ammo?

Thanks

I saw Coyote Mercantiles video last night and ordered one. It was $79.99 and free shipping. I have just loaded 250 shotshells - AA once fired hulls - some I loaded a few days ago (I gauge as I load - won’t gauge now). I ended up with about 25-30 that wouldn’t gauge when I went to box them for regional this weekend. The SliXprings checker/sizer is AWESOME but not for 25-30 shells. This handy gadget will make it so much easier and will save me loads of time and reduce wasted components. The video was clearer than the pictures, for me.

 

Hugs!

 

Scarlett

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On 10/13/2021 at 4:43 PM, Roger Rapid said:

Marshal Fire...

Re: vendor? ... at the moment, they can be purchased from UniqueTek, Coyote's  Mercantile, or directly from me by clicking on this link.

 

(Regarding price, please check with the various resources above so I don't make this sound like a commercial post.)

 

Yes, they absolutely can be used on factory (non-"reloaded") ammo. 

RR

 

FYI:  of the three sources listed, Coyote's Mercantile has free shipping, others have a fee . . . just saying

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15 minutes ago, Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L said:

 

FYI:  of the three sources listed, Coyote's Mercantile has free shipping, others have a fee . . . just saying

Nothing is "Free"...

 

But I love the "Free" promotions of this product:lol:

 

Phantom

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  • 2 weeks later...

Got several PMs and emails on what QuikLoader will fit. The list is growing but at the moment it will work in the MEC Jr press, MEC 650 and 9000 progressive presses, MEC Grabber, MEC Sizemaster, and Texan presses. It will not work in a MEC Case Conditioner, RCBS RockChucker, or Dillon SL900.

 

Please PM me if you learn of something else it will work in.

RR

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