Ranger Dan

At this last weekend wild bunch match, my 97 would not reliably feed win AA shells. Did some measuring and testing with win standard field loads and the rims on the AA were inconsistent where they were consistent on the field loads and the field loads fed reliably. Just more info on AA quality control being poor.

But you can ground it with the action closed hammer cocked, without penalty, if it is empty. Isn't that what this paragraph is all about?

I guess this is what confuses me, because that is the exact wording used in this rule (P 17-18). I understand that it is the live round in the chamber regardless of lever position that rules a SDQ. If it said "live round in the chamber" it would make more sense. Long guns will be emptied and discarded with their barrels pointed safely downrange. This condition may be corrected on the clock, prior to the next round being fired. If the long gun is not discarded empty prior to the next firearm being fired, only the shooter may return to open and/or clear the firearm at the end of the stage under the observation of the CRO/TO. Should an empty casing/hull be ejected or found in the action or chamber, or a live round on the carrier of an open action, a Minor Safety Violation (MSV) will be assessed. However, if the action is opened and a live/unfired round is ejected, a Stage DQ (SDQ) will be assessed for a long gun with a “live round under a cocked hammer having left the shooter’s hands”. In this case, there is no opportunity to correct this condition before firing the next firearm, as the penalty takes effect upon leaving the shooter’s hands.

Yes it is. I argued this very point where a rifle is set on the table with lever open and a round in the carrier falls into the chamber. By rule that is a violation of the round in chamber under a cocked hammer left the shooters hands.

As posted earlier mine is a gen 2 / 3. The frame is gen2, the bolt, gen3. However researching online I could not find a good picture to match my firing pin up to confidently order one. More research indicated that it really doesn't matter what "generation" your rifle is, the Winchester assembly workers would put whatever bolt was in the box of bolts in whatever generation rifle they were assembling. So you could have a gen 2 or 3 rifle with a gen 1 bolt and firing pin. Also replacement parts and scavenging parts to repair other rifles created many different variations. My rifle came to me as a box of parts and they weren't all there. This all led me to get an expert opinion and I took the rifle to my LGS where an experienced gunsmith went through the same research and ordered the FP he thought would fit. Long story is after the 3rd firing pin fit, he called me and I picked up the rifle. He was not there so I never learned which generation FP fit. What fit my gun gives no help or indication whatever for any one else. Either order firing pins till you get the right one or take it to a gunsmith and let him order firing pins till he gets the right one.

A few extra bucks to my LGS was well worth saving me the time and effort to order parts, return parts, order parts, return parts. And it helps me justify actually having someone else work on my guns. As the OP pointed out it is very difficult to figure out which FP will fit his rifle, I was just trying to help by telling my experience and how I dealt with it.

I took the rifle to the gunsmith, hoping he could just tell me which firing pin would fit. He could not. So I left it with him to order till he figured it out. I am not out a bunch of time and shipping fees.

I have had similar marks closer to the top of the brass. Made by lead being shaved off the bullet when seating. Agree with Grass Range, something in the chamber when it was fired.

I have had similar marks closer to the top of the brass. Made by lead being shaved off the bullet when seating. Agree with Grass Range, something in the chamber when it was fired.

I recently got a slixpin firing pin from Long Hunter (longhunt.com). Works great and very fast shipping (2 days). Is slightly longer than stock.

I was in the same situation 2 years ago. My 73 has a manufacturer date of 1883, and has indications of being either a 2ns or 3rd generation. After much research I decided to hand it off to my local gunsmith. He ordered all 3 firing pins before getting the right one. Good for me cuz I only had to pay for the one that worked and am not stuck with 2 extra firing pins that don't fit my rifle.

I think what I'm saying is that 17-18 gives an exception for the shooter to correct the situation. the rest of this paragraph only applies if the next round is fired. Although I do see your point that rule P 42 applies if it was observed on the table before the shooter picked it up. I'm not so sure that happened.

Branchwater Jack, I disagree. 17-18 does apply in that the shooter did correct the non-empty rifle prior to the next round being fired. It's the rest of the paragraph that should not apply since none of the "if this" "if that" applies.

All good points. Was the round in the chamber when it left the shooters hands? OP says it was observed by the TO when the shooter went back to correct the error. It may have fallen in the chamber from the carrier when discarded, but the shooter did not "chamber" it as the action was open. I'm still not convinced the rules accurately identify this situation. Several "If's" have to happen before the SDQ, none of which I see in this situation. "If" the shooter had discarded the rifle with the action closed" "If" the shooter does not correct the error" and "If the shooter opens the action and ejects a live cartridge". None of these "Ifs" happened. We all know the round "fell" in the chamber when the rifle hit the table, is that before or after it left the shooters hands? Does it matter since the action is open? At worst I would say it was in the carrier since the action was open, no one knows for sure when it "fell" into the chamber. Benefit to the shooter. Another point for Kettleman, Ya'll correct me if my memory is wrong. But another WTC post earlier this year made the point that a partially chambered cartridge is not "chambered" it is either fully chambered or not chambered at all.

I am having a hard time seeing where this happened. This rule assumes the action is closed when the rifle is discarded, it was not. I do not see anything about a "live" round in the chamber. Per the OP there was no ejection of a live round so how is this a SDQ? A similar WTC a while back did address this with the action closed. Is the hammer cocked with the action open, yes, can it be fired if you dropped it or pulled the trigger, no. Just my opinion, but I think this is a no call.