Ranger Dan

Gents, thank you for your input. You have confirmed what I am doing is correct and Legal. Just one more thing I would like to point out. Where is the RO standing when you draw? Usually behind you. Can you actually see the draw? No. So how can you call a violation if you can't see it? "Because he didn't do the dance". That is actually what some ROs are looking for. Not trying to bash ROs, just inform them that if you want to make this call please actually see what you are calling.

Exactly. 15 degrees is not much of a cant and as soon as the action clears leather the pistol is pointed straight down, just sideways, then twist as you bring it up on target.

And that is exactly what I do.

A lot of ROs seem to ignore the "if necessary" part of that rule. They only look for the twist movement of the shooters body, not where the pistol is actually pointed. I have done one major match and have never gotten any safety violations.

I love this... I never said anything about breaking the 180, the rule is against breaking the 170 and the exception is when drawing and holstering. So how can you call a violation for breaking the 170 when drawing or holstering? I really do want clarification because I have had ROs say "you need to do the dance just cuz you crossdraw". I disagree, I use a 15 degree canted holster just left of the buckle, I draw the pistol straight up, pointed 180 degrees straight down just like the strong side holster and immediately transition to downrange. I could be facing left and pivot as I draw and still not break the 180 just like any strong side draw. So long as you draw straight up out of the holster and transition to downrange, what can you call?

Captian Bill Burt, The 170° Rule The 170° rule means the muzzle of a firearm must always be straight down range (+/– 85° in any direction). Muzzle direction and muzzle control is important between, before, during, and after shooting a stage. The 170° rule is the backbone of all safe firearm handling and is always in effect. - A muzzle must not be allowed to “sweep” the other participants at any time. - Long guns shall have their actions open with chambers and magazines empty and muzzles pointed in a safe direction when transported at a match. - A holstered revolver (loaded or empty) with the hammer fully down on an empty chamber or expended case is considered safe and may not be interpreted as sweeping another shooter while safely secured in the holster. - Failure to manage safe muzzle direction is grounds for a Stage Disqualification penalty assessment, and for repeat offenses, a Match Disqualification penalty. NOTE: An obvious exception to this rule exists, where the shooter is given the ability to draw and holster revolvers from approved, legal holsters without penalty. Further exception is given when retrieving and returning vertically staged double barrel shotguns without penalty

I changed to a crossdraw with 15 degree cant, and the rules state that there is an obvious exception to the 170 rule when drawing and holstering. I don't bother with the "dance" any more. The way I read the rule, and it has been beat to death on here, you can't call a 170 violation on a shooter while drawing or holstering from any SASS legal holster (30 deg or less).

Utah Bob, Sometimes falling on your sword for the betterment of the overall organization is the right thing to do. Great story! "Who dares, wins" DOL

shooters choice #7

I had an original 1873 Winchester 44WCF and 1 uberti (navy arms) pistol 44WCF that I bought to go with the rifle I inherited from an uncle. Then I heard about this "Cowboy Action Shooting" thing... needless to say they were not up to competition standards, neither has ever been shot in a match..

Been my experience that using different makes of brass will cause the issue the OP is talking about. I use only starline brass and no longer have these issues. Running a Dillon xl650 with rcbs cowboy dies. Different brass have different lengths and neck thickness.

Been reloading 44WCF for a few years. currently I use RCBS Cowboy dies. I resize and deprime on a RCBS Rockchucker single stage then clean the brass. I load using a Dillon XL650 with no resizing die. I use only starline brass. Works great for me. As others have said, uniform brass is the key, don't mix different headstamp brass. Set up for one type of brass and load only that type, reset your dies if you change brass.

One thing you may want to consider, since you like 3gun shooting, is Wild Bunch. I chose 44-40 because I already owned a 73 Winchester in that caliber. Soon learned about the WB category that requires the rifle to be .40 cal or larger, no 38s allowed. Another caliber that works well is 44 magnum/44 special, my son shoots these. You can usually find a pair of 44 new model vaqueros for less than a pair of 38s, just because the 38s are in higher demand.

I have gotten my replacement pins from VTIGunparts.com

How are they held on to the belt ? Very cool.