Deja Vu All Over Again

[Waxahachie Kid #17017 L]

I was watching the news last night. It's Deja vu, all over again.

I was witnessing chapter 2 of the evacuation of "Saigon"...only this time it was Kabul.

Being a Vietnam vet, it brought back some disgusting memories. 

I wonder how the other Vietnam vets are viewing this...???

 

 

[Duffield, SASS #23454]

This one is disgusted because once again we have abandoned people who trusted and aided us to a dire fate.

 

Duffield

[Singin' Sue 71615]

1 hour ago, Waxahachie Kid #17017 L said:

I was watching the news last night. It's Deja vu, all over again.

I was witnessing chapter 2 of the evacuation of "Saigon"...only this time it was Kabul.

Being a Vietnam vet, it brought back some disgusting memories. 

I wonder how the other Vietnam vets are viewing this...???

 

 

Hugs

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

Sad to say but the writing was on the wall years ago.

[bgavin]

I remember well the Saigon moment.
The image is forever in my long term memory.

Afghanistan was inevitable... the Taliban was playing the long game and waited it out.
I am beyond disgusted with the political-military industrial complex who squandered American fighting men for a pre-ordained loss.
Ike was right about that one, same as Ike was right about staying out of Vietnam.
 

[Chantry]

I've served, but I never saw combat.  I agree it was time for the U.S. to leave Afghanistan, but not like this.

 

I'm angry at the waste of lives and money.  I am angry & disgusted at the incredible incompetence and the complete failure of planning that led to the disaster we are seeing on TV.  I am angry that we are leaving behind Afghani's that helped the U.S. and even more importantly helped our military to the very questionable mercies of the Taliban.  I'm sad for all of the Americans, allies & Afghani's who died and I'm sad for what the decent Afghani's are going to have face living life under the Taliban.

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

Expected.

 

We haven't fought, much less won, a war since 1945.

 

Our foreign policy never fails to disappoint me.

 

 

[Pat Riot]

I work for a public agency that used to be called MTA. We always used to say the MTA stands for “Mediocrity Triumphs Always”, among other things. 
It seems that this is the condition of our government and our military. 

[Joke 'um]

"Where empires go to die . . ."

[Four-Eyed Buck,SASS #14795]

Kabul airport is absolute chaos.

[Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646]

Intervene, half commit, bug out, repeat.  The process by which politicians can claim to be "bettering" the World. Is it any wonder that vets hate politicians? I do

 

Imis

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

This failure has nothing to do with the failure of our intelligence service, nor our military planners, nor leaving the Afghanis in the lurch.  We had to leave sometime and should have left two decades ago.  The KEY stupid was becoming involved in the first place. A conflict based on an individual Ego.  A conflict of no tactical significance.

 

We really tried.  We trained up the Afghan Police.  Trained up the Military.  Armed the Military.  The Afghan government, Police and Military folded up without so much as a whimper.  ZERO Sympathy.  

 

Supporting them further would be just more STUPIDITY.

 

PLUS ONE for Imis

[Sixgun Sheridan]

If we couldn't get Afghanistan to create a functioning government, police and military in 20 years' time nothing further would've been accomplished in another 20. We need to stop thinking that we can fix other countries' problems for them. We needed to be there long enough to get bin Laden and that was it. Tell the Taliban that if our satellites spot another training camp we're going to turn it into a fresh crater. But trying to help the Afghans help themselves is a wasted effort. We gave them the money and weapons needed to fight the enemy and they squandered it. Just like the south Vietnamese did 50 years ago.

[Cypress Sun]

Since we're going shoulda, woulda....we should have blown the Taliban to little bloody pieces, regardless of "World opinion" while they were in the open for the last two weeks, blow up all of out stuff we had to leave behind and then leave. The whole "We expected it to take longer to fall" statements are stupid as hell...if you know it's going to fall, why leave the equipment/arms to fall into the Taliban's coffers, destroy it in place or booby trap the s**t out of it. 

[Sixgun Sheridan]

The weapons we left behind were for the Afghan military, who now are 100x worse than the French ever were when it comes to dropping their guns and running.

[Waxahachie Kid #17017 L]

11 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said:

Since we're going shoulda, woulda....we should have blown the Taliban to little bloody pieces, regardless of "World opinion" while they were in the open for the last two weeks, blow up all of out stuff we had to leave behind and then leave. The whole "We expected it to take longer to fall" statements are stupid as hell...if you know it's going to fall, why leave the equipment/arms to fall into the Taliban's coffers, destroy it in place or booby trap the s**t out of it. 

That would take an American leader that was not a gutless wonder to do that. 

[Yul Lose]

I was told early on when this fiasco first started that this would be the outcome. No surprise, disgusting, yes.

[Charlie Harley, #14153]

George W. Bush’s fragile ego. 
Dick Cheney’s greed. 
Condilizza Rice’s and Colin Powell’s complete lack of integrity. 
All of them willfully ignorant of history. 
 

This mission was doomed from the get go. 
 

I predict that within three months we will shoot a few Tomahawks into some isolated part of Afghanistan and claim we blew up a terrorist training camp. The president will stand up and claim that we are still defending American interests and our Afghan allies.
 

And nothing else will happen.

[Trailrider #896]

Gen. Miley is now saying the potential for global terrorism is much higher!  Well, duh!  The scenes of terrified Afghanis running alongside a taxiing C-17, even grabbing ahold of it, is enough to make you puke!  What are we doing about the equipment we are leaving behind, including hi-tech aircraft?  We better crank up B-52's and B-2's and saturation bomb the bases of the (former) Afghan military!  We would never do it, but instead of flying a Minuteman III out of Vandy toward Kwageline with only H.E., maybe launch one out of Alpha-flight at Malmstrom toward Kabul!  

 

Now who will ever trust the United States to keep its word to potential allies!  I know we are not supposed to post anything political, but we better know what to do in November 2022!  And 2024!

[Waxahachie Kid #17017 L]

26 minutes ago, Trailrider #896 said:

Gen. Miley is now saying the potential for global terrorism is much higher!  Well, duh!  The scenes of terrified Afghanis running alongside a taxiing C-17, even grabbing ahold of it, is enough to make you puke!  What are we doing about the equipment we are leaving behind, including hi-tech aircraft?  We better crank up B-52's and B-2's and saturation bomb the bases of the (former) Afghan military!  We would never do it, but instead of flying a Minuteman III out of Vandy toward Kwageline with only H.E., maybe launch one out of Alpha-flight at Malmstrom toward Kabul!  

 

Now who will ever trust the United States to keep its word to potential allies!  I know we are not supposed to post anything political, but we better know what to do in November 2022!  And 2024!

Amen Brother!!! 

[Sixgun Sheridan]

53 minutes ago, Charlie Harley, #14153 said:

George W. Bush’s fragile ego. 
Dick Cheney’s greed. 
Condilizza Rice’s and Colin Powell’s complete lack of integrity. 
All of them willfully ignorant of history. 
 

This mission was doomed from the get go.

 

I think a good argument could be made that our little distraction in Iraq likely played a key role. We had the Taliban on the run until Bush suddenly decided he wanted to get rid of Saddam as well, and we ended up mired in that country for so many years that Afghanistan became a forgotten war with the American public for awhile. Unfortunately it also gave the Taliban time to regroup.

[Charlie Harley, #14153]

12 minutes ago, Sixgun Sheridan said:

 

I think a good argument could be made that our little distraction in Iraq likely played a key role. We had the Taliban on the run until Bush suddenly decided he wanted to get rid of Saddam as well, and we ended up mired in that country for so many years that Afghanistan became a forgotten war with the American public for awhile. Unfortunately it also gave the Taliban time to regroup.

No doubt that was part of the situation. 
To me the issues present in Bush, Cheney, Powell, and Rice are what got us mired in both wars that led nowhere. 

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

Sorry, but our current President showed Strength and Resolve by saying "We're DONE and pulling out.  The previous administration did less than NOTHING.  I seriously doubt the other side of the coin will field much more than a couple of Politicking clowns, fund raising and campaigning on the backs of the sick and dying.  Be Dam'd careful what you wish for.  Be dam'd afraid of those who are currently trying kill YOUR voting rights and dismantle the Republic. 

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

PLUS ONE for Charlie Harley.

 

I served in Desert Storm and was proud to do so.  We answered a call.  I missed Iraq 2 and was dam'd glad to have missed that fiasco.  There was absolutely no valid reason to go to Afghanistan.  At this point in time, we owe the Afghanis NOTHING.

[Sixgun Sheridan]

5 minutes ago, Charlie Harley, #14153 said:

No doubt that was part of the situation. 
To me the issues present in Bush, Cheney, Powell, and Rice are what got us mired in both wars that led nowhere. 

 

Well, I guess we should've known better than to trust leaders with names like Dick, Bush and Colon.

[Rye Miles #13621]

15 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

Sorry, but our current President showed Strength and Resolve by saying "We're DONE and pulling out.  The previous administration did less than NOTHING.  I seriously doubt the other side of the coin will field much more than a couple of Politicking clowns, fund raising and campaigning on the backs of the sick and dying.  Be Dam'd careful what you wish for.  Be dam'd afraid of those who are currently trying kill YOUR voting rights and dismantle the Republic. 

Trump announced a plan for withdrawal before Biden did. He just didn't get re-elected to do it. Don't you remember?? Even Trump's supporters were against his withdrawal plan! 

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-blasted-biden-afghanistan-withdrawal-plan-american-troops-taliban-2021-8

[Charlie Harley, #14153]

7 minutes ago, Sixgun Sheridan said:

 

Well, I guess we should've known better than to trust leaders with names like Dick, Bush and Colon.

That might be the darkest and funniest thing I’ve heard in a long time. 

[Sixgun Sheridan]

26 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Trump announced a plan for withdrawal before Biden did. He just didn't get re-elected to do it. Don't you remember?? Even Trump's supporters were against his withdrawal plan! 

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-blasted-biden-afghanistan-withdrawal-plan-american-troops-taliban-2021-8

 

Well that'll teach the Dems to steal elections!

 

Seriously, Afghanistan was a hand grenade with the pin removed, and both parties were throwing it back at each other like a hot potato. Lucky Joe Biden, he got to be the one holding it when it went off.

[J.D. Daily]

We invaded Afghanistan in 2001; because the Afghanistan government wouldn't eradicate Al Kada in their country.  Mula Omar stuck his middle finger in the air.  With the help of CIA paramilitary forces advising the warlord forces opposing the Taliban lead government forces & our air assets the Taliban lost control of any part of the country in a few weeks.  Because, of the neocons & General Powell's pottery barn mentality we stayed for 20 years.  We had a better chance in VN to have a sustainable RVN than in Afghanistan.   The problem in VN is a Democrat congress banned the expenditures required to meet our treaty obligations to support the defense of RVN against NV aggression.  We used air power once after our withdrawal to turn back an armored invasion.  The thing that bothers me the most is all the lying of the Obama, Trump & Biden administrations about the capabilities or will of the Afgan police & military to defend their democracy.  It seems that it took military advisers to stiffen their backs & US air power to do the job.

[Henry T Harrison]

8 hours ago, Duffield, SASS #23454 said:

This one is disgusted because once again we have abandoned people who trusted and aided us to a dire fate.

 

Duffield

Sorry they weren’t abandoned. We left them with a trained and equipped 300k man army which promptly surrendered and turned over a billion dollars in state of the art equipment they’re getting what they deserve . Cowards 

[Utah Bob #35998]

2 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

Sorry, but our current President showed Strength and Resolve by saying "We're DONE and pulling out.  The previous administration did less than NOTHING.  I seriously doubt the other side of the coin will field much more than a couple of Politicking clowns, fund raising and campaigning on the backs of the sick and dying.  Be Dam'd careful what you wish for.  Be dam'd afraid of those who are currently trying kill YOUR voting rights and dismantle the Republic. 

I agree with the decision to withdraw.
The way it was done however was foolish, incompetent, and disgraceful. Against advice from top military leaders and the intel community we pulled out in a rush, with little preparation for what would be the obvious aftermath.

[Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967]

All in all, getting OUT of the place was important.

 

I watched the President deliver his address this afternoon, and I thought it was about the best presentation he's ever done.  However - it was pretty clear that he was reading directly from a teleprompter; I seriously doubt he had much to do its preparation.  It was "well spun."

 

Regarding Trump's plan:  When it was first announced, I recall thinking that a May 01 deadline was mighty ambitious.  But I also seem to recall discussion at the time about how it would be done in orderly stages, with constant evaluation and adjustments to the plan and schedule as required.  AND effective measures were to be taken to protect those with ties to U. S. interests.

 

Evidently, someone misplaced the blueprint.  

[Blackwater 53393]

21 minutes ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said:

All in all, getting OUT of the place was important.

 

I watched the President deliver his address this afternoon, and I thought it was about the best presentation he's ever done.  However - it was pretty clear that he was reading directly from a teleprompter; I seriously doubt he had much to do its preparation.  It was "well spun."

 

Regarding Trump's plan:  When it was first announced, I recall thinking that a May 01 deadline was mighty ambitious.  But I also seem to recall discussion at the time about how it would be done in orderly stages, with constant evaluation and adjustments to the plan and schedule as required.  AND effective measures were to be taken to protect those with ties to U. S. interests.

 

Evidently, someone misplaced the blueprint.  

 

Misplaced it HELL! The new leadership took the blueprint and threw it out the window!!

 

And YEAH!! Ol’ “WALTER” was a perfect puppet again!!  Wonder which socialist demagogue had his hand up Joe’s backside this time!!

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

The "aftermath" of our withdrawal was a foregone conclusion, regardless of the methodology.  Or, would one prefer a Scorched Earth fighting withdrawal killing everything in our path.  The fault lies in the complete and utter failure of the Afghan government (Who bailed), the Afghan Police (Who bailed) and a well trained and armed military (who bailed).

 

There is a tenant, we seem all too ready to forget.  When an insurgent force receives shelter and sustenance from the general population, set piece military tactics are useless.  The insurgent force has been gearing up and training up for this for TWO decades.  Does anyone think it could be stopped with far too few troops on the ground??  The only effective answer to a well sheltered insurgent force is Genocide.  Are all the Monday Morning quarterbacks and Armchair military Generals ready for THAT ??

 

For years, the general consensus has been to get out of Afghanistan.  Now that we are doing it, there is a faction trying to profit by asking . . . Why Did You Do That??  You cannot have it both ways.  Let us remember part of that "previous" "plan" was to invite Taliban leadership to Camp David so WE could smooch some Taliban posterior.  Or, "Please, Let Us Leave." 

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

11 hours ago, Sixgun Sheridan said:

If we couldn't get Afghanistan to create a functioning government, police and military in 20 years' time nothing further would've been accomplished in another 20. We need to stop thinking that we can fix other countries' problems for them. We needed to be there long enough to get bin Laden and that was it. Tell the Taliban that if our satellites spot another training camp we're going to turn it into a fresh crater. But trying to help the Afghans help themselves is a wasted effort. We gave them the money and weapons needed to fight the enemy and they squandered it. Just like the south Vietnamese did 50 years ago.

NO ONE HAS SUCCEEDED IN STABILIZING THAT PART OF THE WORLD 4000 YEARS!

 

We should never have tried in the first place.  Boycott and barricade the whole area and go on about our legitimate business.