Santa Fe River Stan,36999L Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I've never would have imagined that a $20 bill would have such an effect on cowboys. In comparison to what it costs to shoot just a couple of matches per month the increase is nothing. Take a look around at the next match you attend. How many friends do you see? How many friends would you miss out on if there wasn't a national organization that provided a frame work for matches to follow? How long would matches continue without our national framework....out rules and guidelines? Is SASS perfect? Hell no. Are you perfect? Am I perfect? Hell no! I believe that SASS is trying to right the ship. Let's support them. Let's keep in mind the true value they have brought to us and work to keep that going for future generations of SASS members. How much is a lifetime of friendship worth? I've gotten the opportunity to compete against, break bread with and share spirits with some of the best folks in the world. I can't put a price on that....I'll just tell you it sure buys a lot if forgiveness. Stan - who will be eternally grateful for what SASS has given him. Friends and Family are priceless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazy Kajun Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 +1000 on what Stan said. I've purposely stayed out of all this "discussion" about the $20 and the rest of the associated fallout that has been generated because I just don't think I could have swayed anyone's opinion and my opinion, in the end, really doesn't matter and will not change any outcome. I will say this however....I've only been shooting SASS for 5 years. Without SASS the last 5 years of my life would have been a lot LESS. Less quality time spent with caring people that would help you when others wouldn't. Less learning about how to more safely shoot and handle firearms. Less learning about how to reload my own ammo and experience the satisfaction of knowing that the ammo I shoot is my creation and if it works it was because of the work and attention to detail I put into it and if it fails it was due to my own inattention and lack of pride and workmanship to the task at hand. Less travel to other shooting venues getting to know each range and the surrounding locale. Less dining with friends at places that I would have never got to visit if it weren't for the travel to out of town matches. Less friends, less fun, a lot less of a lot of positive things I have experienced in the last 5 years. The last 5 years of my life have been richly blessed because of this blamed addition to cowboy shooting and I wouldn't have it any other way. The fact that the SASS organization has been around and has helped to provide structure to this activity is a great thing and I support them. Kajun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 You said it brother! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafe Conager SASS #56958 Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I've never met a stranger in SASS, I go to shoots and meet "friends" every time, even the ones I met the 1st. time, I have had new friends offer to loan me guns when my shotgun went south at Winter Range last year. I also return the favor, I've gone to my truck to get a box of shells when someone runs out, or shared my rifle with shooters when theirs headed for the happy hunting ground. rafe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 best shooting sport I've found, and I live 45 minutes from Camp Perry!!! I've got friends now all across the great country and several other countries to boot!!! The is really fun!!! 99% of the folks are great!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spades Hanlin SASS#66204 Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Agreed, can't put a price on friends, and SASS is nothin but new friends, for me, the $20.00 is well spent! YMMV.. Spades H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crosscut hardy Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Great Post -- SFR Stan, hope to see you again and visit at St. Augustine Jan 16. ...crosscut hardy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chili Ron Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Howdy, Its just that every where ya go the price is up and its up a fair bit. The one exception is gas. Gas is down about a dollar a gallon. Yet other things don't seem to be coming down with it. Oil is at a six year low. Other things aren't coming down with it???? Mobil 1 oil has a twelve dollar rebate with 5 quarts bought. So get 10 quarts and cover the SASS increase? Hmmmmmmm...... Best CR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckaroo Bubba Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 This is exactly where I am at! Great post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Knee Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I've never would have imagined that a $20 bill would have such an effect on cowboys. In comparison to what it costs to shoot just a couple of matches per month the increase is nothing. Take a look around at the next match you attend. How many friends do you see? How many friends would you miss out on if there wasn't a national organization that provided a frame work for matches to follow? How long would matches continue without our national framework....out rules and guidelines? Is SASS perfect? Hell no. Are you perfect? Am I perfect? Hell no! I believe that SASS is trying to right the ship. Let's support them. Let's keep in mind the true value they have brought to us and work to keep that going for future generations of SASS members. How much is a lifetime of friendship worth? I've gotten the opportunity to compete against, break bread with and share spirits with some of the best folks in the world. I can't put a price on that....I'll just tell you it sure buys a lot if forgiveness. Stan - who will be eternally grateful for what SASS has given him. Friends and Family are priceless! Well said Stan!!!! Red Knee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Most Wanted Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 . Great post Stan. I agree 100%. Hope to see you all soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Scratch Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 since my kids are now grown and gone on to live their lives away from home. I now have a sport "for Me". I am now starting my 4th year in SASS. I cannot show my appreciation enough to all the friends I have made. I try to shoot every weekend traveling all over the country being welcomed with open arms wherever I go. Where else can you find this kind of camaraderie amongst like minded indivuals?? I can't even go to the movies with popcorn for $20. So what is this game worth to you? For me it's Priceless Scratch ps; I'll be 56 at the Mason Dixon shoot and even though I would not live long enough to make it financially equal I am getting my life membership because I'm in this game for life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abe E.S. Corpus SASS #87667 Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Well said, Stan and Cajun, too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rance - SASS # 54090 Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Let's see... $20... For a whole year.... Uuuhhhh.... that's about a half a carton of cigarettes a year.. Rance Thinkin' It'll be a big sacrifice .. But I think I can do it.. I can just sleep in a hour later each day fer a month... and I'm good ta go... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunger Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I like what you had to say Stan. It's really good seeing a bunch of folks in agreement with the post also! Believe I could've made a couple hundred dollars or so in the amout of time it took me to read all this. You can count me in. Lunger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal TKD, Sass # 36984L Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Here, here, I will raise a glass to what Stan said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oklahomabound Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 yepagree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 3 cheers for Jawbone: Cheer, Cheer, Cheer ! ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amarillo Rattler Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 My fuel cost for weekly practice is $10.20, or $530 per year. And I get to rub elbows with Cypress Sam and a lot of other good Pards while working on basic skills. Then I drive to 2 monthly matches and the Florida annual, as a minimum. Let's guess my annual fuel bill for CAS is $1,000 +/-. Heck, I ain't even fired a round yet!!! Another $20 to SASS to keep the sport, fun and friendship going won't be noticed. Just sayin' AR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawd Awful Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 is 20 dollars a year the end of the world??? No not at all. However, lets take a look at what people are actually saying. because if you actually read the complaints people are making, its about PERCEPTION Some people seem to have the perception that the wild bunch, and SASS are justified in asking for a 44% increase in fees, on top of adding a fee for shooters at sanctioned matches, and an "affiliation" fee for clubs. the main comment is " you waste more than 20 dollars on coffee, fast food, or beer, so its no big deal just pay it the other side of the argument is a PERCEPTION that a 44% increase in dues, on top of Shooter fees for "sanctioned" matches, and an "affiliation" fee for clubs, is out of line considering that the cost to benefit ratio keeps getting lower (Loss of the Chronicle being the main argument) the other PERCEPTION is that all of the membership is being forced to shoulder the financial burden of the Wild Bunches personal playground in New Mexico (right or wrong that is the Perception) Both of the Negative perceptions put the membership, and leadership at odds with each other, and honestly the leadership (Mostly Misty) have stated several times that they are being "honest" and "transparent" about things, without answering the main questions people want answers to. 1) If you (The Organization) want more money from us (The Members), than what are you doing for us that's worth it?? This is a direct result of a society that has a " me first" mentality, as well as a result of an economy that has many of us looking hard at our finances, and feeling like we need to do more, with less disposable income. Does SASS give me enough "bang for the buck" to justify my yearly membership??? (honestly many people where already asking this question before a 44 percent increase) 2) The Perception that Founders ranch is a financial burden to the membership is a simple one to prove or disprove, the question has been asked on SEVERAL threads, Does Founders ranch financially support itself??? If the Answer is honestly yes, than simply stating "Founders Ranch, and EOT are fully self sustaining, and require no membership funds at all to continue operating" would solve that "PERCEPTION" and probably alleviate a lot of the hostility towards the new rates. The simple fact that they haven't answered that question, leaves many with the PERCEPTION that we as members are being forced to shoulder the financial burden of Founders Ranch. If the Answer is "no Founders Ranch is not self sustaining" than in order to change the negative PERCEPTION of the new fees, SASS needs to either A: Explain to the members that there is a plan in place to quickly make founders ranch fully financially independent, and use the extra fees to start giving the members more actual tangible benefits B: Explain to the members that there is a plan to untangle the membership of SASS from the financial losses of Founders Ranch, and move forward in a new direction that doesn't involve using our (the Membership) money to pay for their (Hipshot, Tex, and The Judges) personal property that wouldn't fund itself without us C: Figure out a way to convince the members that its a good Idea to continue to use our (members) dwindling disposable income to subsidize SASS continuing to pay for their (the previously mentioned owners of Founders Ranch) personal property with no extra value to the majority of members who will never go there. Any body in advertising will tell you that Reality doesn't matter, peoples PERCEPTION of reality is what matters...... SASS has done an amazingly bad job of managing peoples perception lately, and because of that, they are getting HUGE pushback, and losing revenue because of lost members 1 last thought, YOUR PERCEPTION is " its only 20 bucks" other peoples PERCEOPTION is "its 44%" the only thing that changes is the PERCEPTION, not the actual dollar amount!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar_slinger Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Part of something is better than all of nothing. I'm not threatening to drop out just yet and if/when I do leave, it will be quietly with no big proclamations or manifestos about reasoning. I'll simply not renew membership. Not my style to cause a ruckus. As long as I'm still working, $20 isn't a lot of money. However, I'm retiring in about a year and once that steady source or income ceases and putting food on my table becomes more of a concern on what will be a fixed income, then $20 will be a concern. I wouldn't sell any of my firearms just to remain a member of SASS or any other organization. I'm probably like a lot of SASS members. I do not shoot state events, will most likely never get to EOT. I shoot 4 or 5 local club events. Mainly I just like to shoot and hang with the guys at the local club. Most are really decent folks and it's a good way to spend a Saturday morning shooting and laughing with friends. I'm not a serious competitor in the CAS game. There are other shooting sports where I do compete more seriously and at national levels, but CAS is just a fun diversion. With match fees, increasing costs of powder, primers, lead and brass, coupled with costs for a "wardrobe" to shoot CAS and now $65 yearly dues, this sport gets very expensive very fast. Fortunately, I had all the guns but did end up buying a new rifle (and shotgun). However, those firearms, while used for CAS now are firearms I would shoot anyway just for fun and plinking. Long story short, $20 isn't the end of the world but there are only so many straws the camel can carry before his back breaks. For many of us who are not nationally ranked shooters, or even state level shooters but just regular cowboys who enjoy a few club shoots a year, the camel's back is sagging significantly. GS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attica Jack #23953 Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 $20.00 isn't the end of the world. Lets put this excessively high dues increase in general terms. If a pound of gunpowder costs $30.00, with a 44% increase, it now costs $53.20, you earn $40,000 per year, your president decides he wants to increase you income tax by 44%, now your income is $22.600.00. Finally, you are paying $3.00 per gallon for gasoline, with a 44% increase. you now are paying $4.32 per gallon. Many SASS shooters are retired, and on a fixed income, and they cannot afford to shoot a state match, because it IS expensive to shoot one, with travel, entrance fees, etc. now you are going to increase membership fees by 44%? This increase is excessive...........period. And yes the camels back is sagging....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Chance Morgun Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Stan, You're sending in the $20, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBFields Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I've never would have imagined that a $20 bill would have such an effect on cowboys. In comparison to what it costs to shoot just a couple of matches per month the increase is nothing. Take a look around at the next match you attend. How many friends do you see? How many friends would you miss out on if there wasn't a national organization that provided a frame work for matches to follow? How long would matches continue without our national framework....out rules and guidelines? Is SASS perfect? Hell no. Are you perfect? Am I perfect? Hell no! I believe that SASS is trying to right the ship. Let's support them. Let's keep in mind the true value they have brought to us and work to keep that going for future generations of SASS members. How much is a lifetime of friendship worth? I've gotten the opportunity to compete against, break bread with and share spirits with some of the best folks in the world. I can't put a price on that....I'll just tell you it sure buys a lot if forgiveness. Stan - who will be eternally grateful for what SASS has given him. Friends and Family are priceless! Great post! Third year of sass and my only regret is not starting sooner. As for the increase it is what it is and if want to continue with everything enjoy in this sport will continue being a member. have to many outside forces trying to 'disarm our rights" that get me way more worked up than this. I am an endowment member of the nra and am considering life membership in sass. Maybe this was mentioned in another post but if some with available funds wanted to donate anonymously to a fund specifically set aside to help with membership dues, could that be set up? It would have to have very specific guidelines but would be the cowboy way to help each other. Just a thought. Love this game!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa Fe River Stan,36999L Posted August 30, 2015 Author Share Posted August 30, 2015 Yes it is 44%.....but it's still only $20. You boys sound like politicians throwing 44% increase around like that. It's $20! Compared to match fees, fuel, ammo, guns , leather, etc the membership fee is still the cheapest part. Stan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa Fe River Stan,36999L Posted August 30, 2015 Author Share Posted August 30, 2015 Stan, You're sending in the $20, right? Actually no.... I'm a life member.....but my wife isn't. My son in college isn't and neither are my 4 and 6 year old. So I'm sending in more than $20. Next question? Stan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Yes it is 44%.....but it's still only $20. You boys sound like politicians throwing 44% increase around like that. It's $20! Compared to match fees, fuel, ammo, guns , leather, etc the membership fee is still the cheapest part. Stan Dang it Stan You beat me by 10 seconds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Dan Troop 70448 Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 20.00 a year? I remember spending several hundred dollars out of my pockets for 4 years for awards, and props. Just donated along with many others shooters to help upgrade targets at a local club. Those of us that do pay and will continue to pay our dues, will allow those that won't or can't, to continue to have use of the wire, use the club listings to find clubs to shoot at and check your scores. Those of us that truly believe in the game, won't find excuses, nor complain about those that don't. I know several that don't or haven't payed their dues, and have heard them complain when their aliases are now someone else's. Go figure. MT Oh, yes, I'm retired, and have been for many years. Adding- Maybe, just maybe, dues would not have been raised, if everyone would support and pay their dues?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boon Doggle Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Yes it is only $20. But, SASS is starting to sound like the Government. "We didn't use your money wisely, so give us more." One thing that would put a lot of this to rest would be a P&L statement with actual figures. And, a plan showing just how and what was going to be done to correct the problem. And by the way, my membership is current. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 delete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pleasant , SASS #25245 L Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I estimate it cost me about $1000.00 for the Pleasantly/Unpleasant Gang to attend our state shoot. Motel, entry fees, food, gas, ammo component cost and possibly vendor purchases. This does not include cost of firearms, gunsmith fees, clothing, reloading equipment, etc... I am a life member. However, I pay annual memberships fo my wife, two sons and four grandsons. I am thankful for SASS for this sport and the many friends it has brought to my family and myself!! I have no problem with the cost increase due to I know from all I have read that it is needed for SASS to continue. Pleasant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 No. $20 is not the end or even the extra $40 we had to pay. I'm in the fortunate position to be able to afford it and willingly, though not happily, paid it. It was, however, a shock when I went to renew and found the fee had jumped so much. I do, however, strongly oppose the club affiliation fee, but that's a different thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Chance Morgun Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 Stan, This wasn't meant as an attack on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa Fe River Stan,36999L Posted August 30, 2015 Author Share Posted August 30, 2015 No problem Pard. Stan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted August 30, 2015 Share Posted August 30, 2015 I estimate it cost me about $1000.00 for the Pleasantly/Unpleasant Gang to attend our state shoot. Motel, entry fees, food, gas, ammo component cost and possibly vendor purchases. This does not include cost of firearms, gunsmith fees, clothing, reloading equipment, etc... I am a life member. However, I pay annual memberships fo my wife, two sons and four grandsons. I am thankful for SASS for this sport and the many friends it has brought to my family and myself!! I have no problem with the cost increase due to I know from all I have read that it is needed for SASS to continue. Pleasant How many in your gang that goes to State Shoot and how far to State Shoot. Just curious, nothing else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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