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SASS shooters get no respect


Dang It Dan 13202

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Here's another aspect of Cowboy shooting that I don't understand.

 

I've heard stories about how some of our Top Guns will practice 40-80,000 rounds a year just to achieve the proficiency level to burn a stage in 12 to 14 seconds. And then question that we might have a problem with targets being tooooo close or tooooo big.

 

Question: If those targets are that close and that big, why was it necessary to practice with all that ammo?

 

Answer: Cause it ain't all that easy to burn a stage under 15 seconds and CLEAN.

 

 

..........Widder, RO of the Rodney Dangerfield posse

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Same same in Australia..other disciplines want to rubbish Cowboy shooting yet our attendances at all levels blow them out of the water !

Of a bigger concern is all not being a united front ..under one banner [ similar to the NRA ] we may then have a bit of political clout but while there is division ..well we no what happens & that's exactly what happened in Australia.

I can never understand shooters who criticize another shooting sport..depending on the mood at the time I'II either politely say 'each to their own' or let both barrels rip !!

Regards 'Painted Mohawk

 

P.S. Tried the rest ..Cowboy's the best !

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[qoute]

I have had some experienced and competent cowboy shooters tell me that they had never had to hit small targets and simply didn't know what to do when faced with small knockdowns, flying clays, etc.

 

We don't need to remove the "big and close" fun but we may need to add in some more challenging targets to help our shooters learn a higher skill level.

 

I can assure anyone that our top shooters can blister a stage with 6" targets nearly as fast and accurately as they can on 24" plates. But, wouldn't all of our shooters benefit from a taste of small targets occasionally mixed in to the game?

 

Every now and then you have to be able to shoot the head off of a snake!

 

I always enjoy the matches Delta Glen sets up - a variety of targets in size, distance, and difficulty.

He knows of what he speaks - and advises shooters to recognize stages where you can put the pedal to the metal, and those where you must let up on the gas a little.

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"What I am suggesting is that we may have gone too far in search of "fun" and forsaken accuracy and consistency."

 

 

Respectfully,

 

Dang It Dan

 

I think what Dan is saying is maybe many of our shooters are exposed to the game without learning how to make more challenging shots with the guns of our game.

 

I have had some experienced and competent cowboy shooters tell me that they had never had to hit small targets and simply didn't know what to do when faced with small knockdowns, flying clays, etc.

 

We don't need to remove the "big and close" fun but we may need to add in some more challenging targets to help our shooters learn a higher skill level.

 

I can assure anyone that our top shooters can blister a stage with 6" targets nearly as fast and accurately as they can on 24" plates. But, wouldn't all of our shooters benefit from a taste of small targets occasionally mixed in to the game?

 

Every now and then you have to be able to shoot the head off of a snake!

It's not our job to make folks better shooters...that's on them to do as they see fit.

 

Again, each shooting sport has it's focus...for instance, our sport requires a lot of interaction with the firearms (single action don'tcha know), as well as being heavy in the Gun Transition category. Those in the bullseye world don't emphasize the same skill set as those that partake in Steel Challenge...and so forth.

 

CAS is what it is...does it need a steady diet of 3'x3' at 5 yards? No...don't think so. But our game is challenging in it's on right for it's own reasons.

 

Cheers!

Phantom

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Over the years, I have tried a number of different shooting disciplines, and although my personal motto is any trigger time is good trigger time, I can honestly say that nothing is more fun than SASS. This is the first shooting sport that I have participated in where there are very few egos, everyone is there to have fun, and everyone honestly is cheering everyone else on.

 

Do we dress up in outfits? Sure! That is half the fun. Getting a chance to take on the personna of one of our past heroes, or just celebrating history, enhances the experience. It is also fun to see a younger person there who is curious about the gear and some of their significance, and getting a chance to talk about the history behind them. It might even get one or two of them to go beyond the sport and open a history book to learn more about the nation.

 

As far as the targets being larger and closer than other disciplines, my basic response is "so what?" This allows ayone, no matter what their health, age, or skill level to be successful. The speed part of the game is what separates the best from the average, but anyone can be a success. And, even with the big targets, you can still miss. But, show me another sport where you see shooters from teens to people in their 80s, all successful in there own right, and all having fun and supporting each other.

 

In my own case, as some with COPD, I can get winded easily, and before I found SASS, I had almost given up shooting sports because I was getting tired of the condescending grins after finishing a course of fire respectable for me, but not to their standards. Will I ever be at the top of the heap? Probably not, but SASS allows me to take part in a fun shooting sport that challenges me but still allows me to find a level of success. When I shoot, I shoot against my personal previous score, and as long as I am improving, that is enough to me.

 

SASS is alos the only sport where I have seen shooters do so much stuff together outside of the shoot, like lunches, dinners, cards, movies, etc. That says a lot for the type of people that do SASS, because we CARE about each other as well. We don't run to the car after shooting and rush off to the hotel until the next morning.

 

I am not always the best at words, so I probably didn't do anything but ramble, but SASS is an awesome sport for the entire family, where everyone can shoot together. We are more like a family than competitors.

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It's not our job to make folks better shooters...that's on them to do as they see fit.

 

Again, each shooting sport has it's focus...for instance, our sport requires a lot of interaction with the firearms (single action don'tcha know), as well as being heavy in the Gun Transition category. Those in the bullseye world don't emphasize the same skill set as those that partake in Steel Challenge...and so forth.

 

CAS is what it is...does it need a steady diet of 3'x3' at 5 yards? No...don't think so. But our game is challenging in it's on right for it's own reasons.

 

Cheers!

 

Phantom

Let them try those "Hell's Bells" at Plum Creek! I would not like a steady diet of them, but they do present a unique challenge, and I enjoy shooting them.

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Let them try those "Hell's Bells" at Plum Creek! I would not like a steady diet of them, but they do present a unique challenge, and I enjoy shooting them.

Yea...funny how when a timer goes off...and the targets are deceptively small...tall but skinny...all of a sudden one feels as though they can't breath...time slows down...

 

And then of course we put in a fast pistol target array just to mix up the tempo...yea, CAS has it's challenge doesn't it!?

 

Glad ya like...Hell's Bells!

 

;)

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I work in a massive sporting goods store. I work in the fishing department. Our biggest department is hunting / guns. There are 9 guys in that department. There are 7 in mine. I shoot more ammo per week than all of them combined! They go to big matches with strict rules about target size, placement, color blah, blah, blah, and come back to work all pissed off cuz someone beat them at their game. I go to a CAS match, consistently place at the bottom and come back to work happy as a pig in sh-t!

 

My good friend and grand poobah of our club, "Jess Ducky" told me that the idea of CAS was to have fun! "If it aint fun, then why do it?" he said, and I have been having a ball ever since. Tell me I aint a shooter! Tell me we aren't really competitors. Tell me our targets are too big and too close. Tell me all of those things, but then tell me I aint having fun? HA!

 

If I even shoot a clean stage I get excited! My wife just won the Washington State Championship "Westmatch" Womens shooting costume first place award and I nearly began to cry! She took 3rd in Ladies 49ers and I took 4th in Gunfighter! Gawd if we had anymore fun we would have exploded!

 

Never be offended at ignorance. Invite this guy out to a match and see what happens. Let him try a 1-3-1-2-1 sweep with a couple of pistols and see where his head is at after that? Most of all, ask him if it was fun! Isn't that why we do it?

 

Give me old bang and clang anyday over the PHHHT! of a bullet going through a grid of paper!

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Have them show up at a state BP match. Then require them to complain about wuss loads, targets too close, etc., etc. Give them six BP shotgun KD's with the sun in their eyes. Tell them to try them. Will be an eye opening revelation (plus fun to watch).

 

Bottom line: "Did you have fun?"

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SASS is alos the only sport where I have seen shooters do so much stuff together outside of the shoot, like lunches, dinners, cards, movies, etc. That says a lot for the type of people that do SASS, because we CARE about each other as well. We don't run to the car after shooting and rush off to the hotel until the next morning.

 

+1000 , you get it. And you'll stay. That's what keeps me up the night before with excitement to go the same monthly I've been shooting for 12 years. Yup people shoot CAS for a lot of different reasons. Those that keep the above in mind don't burn out or move on.

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Other cowboys (especially those in this forum) have shot much more than me. My active shooting competition experience includes 4 year of singles trap, 4 years of DCM/highpower, 3 years of rimfire bullseye, 2 years of pistol silhouette, 6 years of IPSC and 6 years of CAS. I am an average shooter at best.

 

I have found opinionated shooters in all of these venues.

I have found people that I enjoyed being around in all of these venues.

 

1. The .44 rimfire used in the Henry 1860 and Winchester 1866 (the guns that won the west) shot a 200 grain bullet at around 950 fps, very similar to all but the lightest of gamey loads.

2. I have shot IPSC stages where we ran down a hall of sixteen man-sized targets at 3-ft to double-tap each target.

3. We need to realize that we are all on one big posse against those that would take our guns from us to make us safer.

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Honestly I think Dan is just a troublemaker. :) I have shot several disciplines, none very well and it boils down to the people many of which I miss desperately since I haven't had the opportunity to shoot for a few years that is what I enjoy.

 

Duece I will try and be in contact in the morning.

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"I don't Need no stinkin badge" or there respect.

I shoot what I like when I wish too.

Trap sometimes, semi-auto pistol match once in a while, silhouettes when I can, with cowboy lever rifles, as long as there is not a fun CAS match on the same date.

The green eyed monster is a mean -----.

Shoot what you like enjoy life, I do not have time to fix others.

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Honestly I think Dan is just a troublemaker. :)

 

Actually, I am.......but I just want folks to stop and look at what we are promoting. When the targets get so close and so big that you can literally "dry-fire" your way to a championship, we might want to consider actually letting the pendulum swing back the other way for a bit. I see nothing wrong with putting a few targets out to a whopping 7 yards now and then. Remember when a rifle shot was, well, uh, a rifle shot?

 

At any rate, thanks for the input from all of you and I'll see you at the range (yes, I'll be smiling no matter what).

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It's not our job to make folks better shooters...that's on them to do as they see fit.

 

Again, each shooting sport has it's focus...for instance, our sport requires a lot of interaction with the firearms (single action don'tcha know), as well as being heavy in the Gun Transition category. Those in the bullseye world don't emphasize the same skill set as those that partake in Steel Challenge...and so forth.

 

CAS is what it is...does it need a steady diet of 3'x3' at 5 yards? No...don't think so. But our game is challenging in it's on right for it's own reasons.

 

Cheers!

Phantom

+1. If I wanted to bullseye shoot at postage stamp targets, I would shoot another discipline. Part of the challenge is using SA pistols, and lever action rifles, instead of clip fed semi autos. If our targets are so close and big, how come we don't have a higher percentage of clean shooters.

For another shooting discipline to belittle another form of shooting instead of supporting all shooting type games/sports, doesn't say much for their game/sport. Might be jealousy?

Wonder if our game would have the support and members, if suddenly all pistol targets are 6", and set farther? MT

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Shot a match Sat at one of the nicest clubs in Texas.

Would say the average target distance was about 7 yards.

 

They draw as good a crowd as any club around. Mostly better

than most.

 

And yes. There targets are a little farther than many around here.

But to me. I still call that close.

 

And again. I DON'T CARE what other shooting sports think of us.

 

I just want to go out and have FUN with my WIFE shooting.

And I DON'T get that in them other shooting sports. So they can keep there's.

I will keep ours and enjoy it with my wife.

 

Make SASS like the other shooting sports. The wife is out.

And at this point in my life. So would I.

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Around 20 years ago the wife and I shot USPSA and really enjoyed it. Both had to quit as we began working more weekends. Retired in 2000 and were going to start back at USPSA. Finally the wife told me that she just could not do the running, hanging from ropes, and getting down on her knees any longer. I had heard good things about SASS from USPSA FOLKS and told the wife there was cowboy shooting for us old folks that could no longer do the running stuff, so we gave it a try. Both loved it. Besides, ever tried to conceal carry one of them race guns vs a six shooter? Don't think so :lol:

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Well, IF you want to be taken seriously it’s an uphill battle when you ask a grown man to ride a stick horse……and sign show tunes….lol. My gut tells me it’s that, it’s a little about the “costumes”, it’s a little about target size…….it’s a lot about ignorance and it’s little about intimidation as well.
Then you add a pretty hefty price tag and a steep learning curve and it’s easier to sit back and make fun of us rather than respect it OR even try it. If I had a dollar for every seasoned shooter from another discipline that told me it looked too easy and then proceeded to fumble through a stage in 50+ seconds with multiple misses I would be rich.


But what I like in a match is variation and IMO if you spend enough time you can have variation AND fun for all levels. So I won’t make you ride a rocking horse but I will test your shooting skills. The targets are big and close for the most part….but they vary so you don’t get too bored. You add small targets as “bonus” target or Rifle and /or pistol knock down targets that are small but may be made up with another gun like the shotgun for example and you can have a challenging stage that is fun/challenging but keeps people from earning 5 misses and getting angry. I really think if you try hard you can make 90% of the folks happy…….the other 10% you hafta’ write off.


Plus you can’t have SASS without the clothes but I don’t think that’s the biggest issue and most folks after a few matches come full circle there……but if you make it about “shooting” and less like a bad High School play with guns……we probably would be better IF that’s what we desire.
There was a time when folks were shooting bullets with mag primers and no powder to gain an edge but those days are long gone……..The power factor was a great idea but again the past could have lead to the mis-conception we shoot light loads, wax bullets, etc. IMHO we could even bump the power factor up a bit more and be fine.


Either way people don’t realize the talent of a top SASS shooter and the practice it takes to learn 3 guns (not counting twice for pistol) proficiently, the transitions, the fact we have to manually operate each gun and still hit the targets at a rate of speed comparable with other shooters that just have to squeeze a trigger on their semi-auto. It really show cased the level of talent SASS shooters have when Wolf Bane did the challenge on his show. Those SASS shooter’s made us proud…….but we knew they could do it…..and there are lots of folks in this sport equally talented with any type firearm.


So, let em’ talk and lets keep just keep doing what we love to do.

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I played tennis competitively for years (quite a while back) and listened to wood racquet players criticizing the use of metal racquets and one-handed players belittling those who used two hands on the racquet. For about a dozen years before getting into CAS, I competed in archery tournaments and heard the catcalls between those using traditional or primitive gear and those shooting "wheelbows." This is no different. It is human nature to think your passion, including equipment and playing style, is the only way to go. Our concern should be (along with safety) having fun. I agree with Delta that it is fun to throw in a challenge here and there, with a smaller or more distant target, but I would make such scenarios the exception rather than the rule. I switched to Gunfighter a year back, because I find the additional challenge more fun--maybe the same for you, Dan. I am happy for my friends who enjoy IPSC, Benchrest and other forms of shooting and would encourage them to be supportive of those of us who like Cowboy Action Shooting. No matter the targets, shooting style or other particulars, those of us who enjoy shooting sports need to hang together--we have plenty out there who would love to take it all away from us and we ought to keep our attention there.

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I agree with Phantom in that all facets of shooting sports are challenging when you add the word competition. I haven't participated in all but I sure would like to before I leave this world. The ones I have & do participate in I enjoy for various and different reasons. I don't have time for anyone that doesn't understand that and couldn't care less what those folks think . We all end up in the same place in the end and I believe real difference between us is how much fun and enjoyment we have getting there. It's all really just a state of mind and nothing else. I am thankful that there is so much available for us to do in shooting sports in this country at least. Lots of fun to be had for us all assuming our rights are not taken away by excessive regulation.

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I don't care about what others might say, but it is all about shooter success. If people come to a match and have so many misses that could not remember how many, then they will not return and eventually quit the game.

In SASS, i have seen 1st time shooter go away with giant smiles on thier faces because of the friendly way they were recieved, the friends they made and the success they had as shooters.............

How many times does that happen in the other shooting disciplines?

 

END of story, and yes, they will come back and maybe they will bring their friends along with them adding to the fun....

 

 

Respectfully,

 

 

CBA :):excl:

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It has already been determined that SASS/CAS is for Entertainment. And I don't care how big or how close those targets might be, it is trully entertaining to watch folks like Deuce, Dang it Dan, Santa Fe River Stan, Black Tom.....and young guns like Missouri Lefty, Two Gun Tuco, Campo Kid, Sage Chick and Vaquero Jake.

 

There's alot of things in this world that I don't care about.....and what 'they' think is one of them.

 

 

..........NimbleSOB

 

Reckon that's my thought too.

 

One other thought I have:

 

Some folks who posted here devote ALOT of time and practice to this sport and support others in getting into it - it truly is a passion and a lifestyle (my local pards Deuce Stevens, Straight Arrow Hombre come to mind). If people like that can say 'who cares' I reckon that I can do the same - especially when I just don't have the time, money, resources to put into the game as many of these dedicated pards do. My constant thanks to them (and all of the same mindset) who work at making this game fun, entertaining, and challenging...so yeah, what they say works for me.

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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What I am suggesting is that we may have gone too far in search of "fun"

 

First and foremost, I'm one of those odd folks who enjoys shooting challenges. Note that's challengES. I love big, close and fast...........but I also love smaller and further away. I like it all. As much as I love steak, I couldn't live on steak alone. I need variety.

 

That being said, I think the above statement is a HUGE contradiction. Not at all trying to pick you on Dan, just saying I don't think it's possible to go too far in search of fun. That's why this sport exists, for fun. We're sure not in it for the money. What I also belive is that "fun" is in the eye of the beholder. For that reason match directors will forever be searching for that perfect combination of target distance, size, movement, scenery, etc to make their matches as fun as possible for the most shooters possible. There's no single aspect of a match that makes it fun. Matches are judges in their entirety by those that shoot them. Another note: I said matches are judged by those that shoot them. What anybody else thinks, especially from other shooting sports, is 100% irrelevant. Not to put too fine a point on it but, screw them. And that's coming from somebody that used to be one of them. If they've never shot a cowboy match I have absolutely no use for thier "opinion" of cowboy matches. I'm there to have fun. If I have my fun, I don't give a rat's ass what anybody else thinks of the match. (Unless of course it's a match I'm putting on. In that case, if there are any shooters who didn't like the match I blame it all on Creeker. ;) )

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Shooters from other disciplines will probably never say CAS is comparable to their shooting sport of choice as it would lessen their significance in their minds. My answer to them would be "just come try it once". CAS is so much more than just a shooting sport. It is a Culture. Some people will never understand the true Cowboy Way. In a way i feel sorry for them cause they are missing being a part of History.

2Gunz

 

"Honor To Whom Honor Due"

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I found SASS way late in my life.I spent way to much of my time and money when I was younger racing A fuel dragsters,playing tennis,shooting bows,bass fishing and shooting other guns.I just turned 70 and I feel better now than I did when I was younger because of SASS and the people that I have meet and really love.I have guns that I paid way more for than I did for my cowboy guns.I really don't care what all the other shooting sport say.They don't know what they are missing.If they make my pistol targets 6" at 10 yards I don't care I will just try harder.If they make them life size buffalo like Bar 3, I can still miss them with my rifle( 1 miss at CAC).There is no sport that cares about the people like SASS and no shooters in any shooting sport that has as much fun as I do.I love the stages that have movement,that are different,that have a small targets,moving targets,pop up birds and knock downs.Just let me shoot.

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Criticizing another person's sport, not helpful criticism but criticism mean to degrade the sport, is rude. Bad manners.

 

We should not criticize trapshooters for using adjustable stocks. We should not criticize the bottom feeding pistol competitors for using specialized holsters and optical sights, etc. Fly fishermen should not criticize those who use bait.

 

Those who are concerned about the comments of rude, bad mannered people have not yet realized that it is futile to try to please everyone.

 

 

Hear, Hear (here, here?) Spoken like a true gentleman. We stand tall as the friendliest shooting sport available. That is all we need.

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I've shot 3 gun, practical pistol and a variety of combat matches with double action revolver, 1911's, AR's,870's and chose the disipline where the most fun can be had.The people are great, the guns are fun and laughter infectious. When all else fails we can cast our own bullets, make our own BP and keep on shootin. Long live CAS!

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haveing a limited menu in a all American family restaurant in a country full of imagrants (good ole hot dogs only lets say)

can be a part of demishing returns

a menu may need some mexican items, perhaps some italian items, or polish sasauge for folks to choose from

 

here is what another feller said, and I agree with him

I am starting to see some diminishing returns when it comes to big and close. Never thought I'd say that, but I also thought I'd never see targets inside of three yards either.

 

you do not have to agree to agree

just open your mind to th possibility

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Just finished shooting the Idaho state match in Boise. The targets were big and close and stages were smokin' fast. I told my pard, JT that if you were using sights in this match, you were wasting precious time! But...it was fun!! A real hoot.

 

I like a match like this occasionally but not a steady diet of it. It would make you sloppy real fast. I shoot what the matches offer and choose to return to matches I enjoy. I'm here for the personal pleasure that I derive from my participation, not for respect from ANYONE else.

 

I have a saying that I call the "Rule of thirds."

 

- If you're playing this game, do it for yourself because...

*1/3 of the folks don't care how ya shot

*1/3 think you must be cheating if you beat them

*and the other 1/3 are your buds and think they're faster than you anyway!

 

Have fun and be safe. See y'all on the range.

 

Four Bucks

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I found SASS way late in my life.I spent way to much of my time and money when I was younger racing A fuel dragsters,playing tennis,shooting bows,bass fishing and shooting other guns.I just turned 70 and I feel better now than I did when I was younger because of SASS and the people that I have meet and really love.I have guns that I paid way more for than I did for my cowboy guns.I really don't care what all the other shooting sport say.They don't know what they are missing.If they make my pistol targets 6" at 10 yards I don't care I will just try harder.If they make them life size buffalo like Bar 3, I can still miss them with my rifle( 1 miss at CAC).There is no sport that cares about the people like SASS and no shooters in any shooting sport that has as much fun as I do.I love the stages that have movement,that are different,that have a small targets,moving targets,pop up birds and knock downs.Just let me shoot.

The depth of your veracity is irrefutable.

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"What I am suggesting is that we may have gone too far in search of "fun" and forsaken accuracy and consistency."

 

 

Respectfully,

 

Dang It Dan

 

I think what Dan is saying is maybe many of our shooters are exposed to the game without learning how to make more challenging shots with the guns of our game.

 

I have had some experienced and competent cowboy shooters tell me that they had never had to hit small targets and simply didn't know what to do when faced with small knockdowns, flying clays, etc.

 

We don't need to remove the "big and close" fun but we may need to add in some more challenging targets to help our shooters learn a higher skill level.

 

I can assure anyone that our top shooters can blister a stage with 6" targets nearly as fast and accurately as they can on 24" plates. But, wouldn't all of our shooters benefit from a taste of small targets occasionally mixed in to the game?

 

Every now and then you have to be able to shoot the head off of a snake!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"We don't need to remove the "big and close" fun but we may need to add in some more challenging targets to help our shooters learn a higher skill level. "

 

I gotta agree with this. I like a "big and close" stage in a match but not the whole match with that set up. There is a lot more to shooting a firearm than just shooting big, close, easy to hit targets fast. What about small targets, targets that are farther away, and targets that are moving. We are supposedly recreating the shooting done in the old west, either in real life or the movies, tv shows etc. In how many of those do you only see big, close targets being shot. In fact, in the movies and tv they mostly present the "good guys" making very difficult shots.

 

Consider all the old movies where the hero shot the guns out of peoples hands. And the shot James Coburn made in The Magnificent Seven" when he shot the man off a moving horse at long range with his handgun or Gus's long shot with his Henry rifle in Lonesome Dove and many more.

 

I think for someone to be considered a good shot they should be good at not only shooting big close targets fast but also distant targets, small targets and moving targets.

 

My Whirling Dervish is the extreme in hard to hit targets but people really enjoy the challenge of shooting it. No one has knocked ten targets off with ten shots yet but when someone does they will have gained a lot of respect among their fellow shooters.

 

The trend in the bigger matches, such as our Montana state match is to move to exclusively big, easy targets. No more Texas Star, "riding the train" or claybirds. I found the shooting part of the match boring. I'll still attend because I enjoy the camping out on the range during the match and the bull sessions but the shooting itself is not that big a deal to me any more.

 

Sage Creek Gus

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I too started CAS late in my shooting life (over 50) and having shot about everything available to a police officer and anything else I could find to train on (and enjoyed most all of it) I went to LOOK at a Cowboy Match just to see what it was all about. MY thoughts were "Well there isn't much to the shooting part of this". THEN I shot my first match! What a humbling and awakening experience that was! Going from the top 2% of shooters in a 300+ man police department to the bottom of the list certainly changed MY mind. I have improved some since then I REALLY have! Cowboy Action shooting is the most fun I have ever had in ANY shooting sport! I have to agree with many of the posts here it is thru ignorance (mine was) of what we do that makes people look down their noses at our sport, at the same time I watched a multi-time world champion hand her main match rifle to a new shooter who was having rifle trouble and say "Here try this and see if it is any better". I have NEVER seen this even among brother officers at a shooting competition! The people, the fun, the camaraderie, THAT is what makes CAS much more fun than anything else. It seems to me it is much more family oriented and family friendly than most shooting sports.

I think a simple "You could be right. Come out and shoot a match with us and see how you could improve it" would be a good answer---See if it is as easy as it LOOKED from the outside!

I also agree that we should provide a united front to the anti-gun crowd, and not fight amongst ourselves.

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With regard to target size and distance. The typical bedroom is 12 to 15 feet wide or long and the typical family room is 22 to 25 ft wide or long. This is feet not yards. in yards the bedroom would be 4 to 5 yards and the family room would be 7 to 8 yards. The typical torso of a male human being is about 15" from armpit to armpit and 20" from the base of the neck to the belt line. so what was that you were saying about targets being too close and too big???

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