.40 Cal is TOO much for the NSW Constabulary

[Buckshot Bear]

Since around 1997 the New South Wales Police Force changed over from the long used S&W Model 10 revolvers (all special order 3" barrels) to the Glock 22 in .40 Cal

 

Since then the NSW Police have dropped weight and height requirements for new recruits and there was a lot of complaining that the recoil, muzzle blast, wah wah wah was wayyyyy to much for some of the smaller framed men and ladies of the force.

 

So now around 14,000 Glock .40s are being retired and the entire force will be re-issued with Glocks in 'lung blower' 9mm.

[Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001]

well it would be way cheaper to refit the 40s with a Lone Wolf 9mm barrel , and change over to 9mm mags 

 

 LW also made a 357 Sig change over , uses the 40 mags 

 

  CB 

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

What will become of those 14,000 retired Glocks? Do they disappear into the black market?

[DeaconKC]

I carried a .40 cal Glock for my Department for 17 years. Many of the Agents I worked with were smaller framed female shooters and handled the guns well. Hopefully they will sell the guns to a US distributor.

[Buckshot Bear]

4 minutes ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

What will become of those 14,000 retired Glocks? Do they disappear into the black market?

 

This is just a WAG, but I'd say that if they aren't crushed that a lot of them could be donated to New Guinea, Solomon Islands, Fiji etc constabularies. 

[Henry T Harrison]

The Glock model 23 was what we issued to our female officers and detectives 

[Cypress Sun]

49 minutes ago, DeaconKC said:

I carried a .40 cal Glock for my Department for 17 years. Many of the Agents I worked with were smaller framed female shooters and handled the guns well. Hopefully they will sell the guns to a US distributor.

 

Great, a bunch of Glocks that can only be shot from an upside-down position.

[Dantankerous]

G23 is a perfect good sidearm.

 

Most probably don't train enough with it.

 

Some people cannot handle a .22.

 

 

[Buckshot Bear]

9 minutes ago, Dantankerous said:

G23 is a perfect good sidearm.

 

Most probably don't train enough with it.

 

Some people cannot handle a .22.

 

 

 

They only need to qualify once every 12 months and I don't think its many rounds that they even fire.

[Buckshot Bear]

 

[Wallaby Damned]

1 hour ago, Cypress Sun said:

 

Great, a bunch of Glocks that can only be shot from an upside-down position.

Nah mate, the rifling just goes the other way down there. 

[Linn Keller, SASS 27332, BOLD 103]

1 hour ago, Cypress Sun said:

 

Great, a bunch of Glocks that can only be shot from an upside-down position.

Sadly, we had a shotgun of that persuasion.

Hi-Standard brand, don't know who actually manufactured it, but it would cycle only if held upside down.

Town marshal didn't believe me when I told him.

We went to the range, I stoked the tube, handed it to him, told him to put four fast into the target.

Went BANG once and wouldn't shuck.

I relieved him of the recalcitrant riot, let out a yell, ran toward the target, dove, rolled onto my back, and -- flat on my back, holding the gun UPSIDE DOWN -- dumped the rest of the mag into the silhouette's belt buckle.

He traded it off the next day for something that worked.

[Subdeacon Joe]

I'm not small, nor weak.  I'll shoot .44 magnum loads before .40 S&W.  For me the report and recoil are very, very unpleasant, sharp and "whippy," with a nasty torque to it.  The only pistol round I've tried that I don't like to shoot.

[Badlands Bob #61228]

The 40 cal Glock was an option for the officers in our department.  I didn't care for the caliber because of the snappy recoil and harsh torque.  Most of the officers that went with the 40 cal changed to either the 45 acp or the 9mm after a couple of years.  We qualified 4 times a year on a pretty challenging course.  

[Cypress Sun]

2 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

I'm not small, nor weak.  I'll shoot .44 magnum loads before .40 S&W.  For me the report and recoil are very, very unpleasant, sharp and "whippy," with a nasty torque to it.  The only pistol round I've tried that I don't like to shoot.

 

The last ammo left on the shelves during the plaque/BLM riots/election drama, etc., was .40 S&W. It was the lone ammo left to buy and was still plentiful for a good long time after everything else was gone. That makes a pretty good judge of how well the .40 is really liked.

 

For the record, I'm with you and Badlands Bob, I don't like the .40 due to the snappy recoil and torque...I guess plenty of other people don't also.

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

3 hours ago, Wallaby Damned said:

Nah mate, the rifling just goes the other way down there. 

Muzzle to chamber instead of chamber to muzzle?

[DocWard]

As I recall, the FBI, which was the driving force behind the development of the .40 S&W, switched back to the 9mm some years ago. As I recall, they're stated reasoning was that: with modern ammo, differences in terminal performance were negligible; less recoil meant faster, more accurate follow up shots; smaller rounds meant more ammo in a magazine. I'm sure cost per round came into play as well considering training budgets and all that.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

13 hours ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

What will become of those 14,000 retired Glocks? Do they disappear into the black market?

 

Rumors are that they plan to give them to Eric Holder, so he can distribute them to the Mex Cartel

and help track criminals and there usage in crimes across the border (our side of the border).

 

..........Widder

 

[Dantankerous]

1 hour ago, DocWard said:

As I recall, the FBI, which was the driving force behind the development of the .40 S&W, switched back to the 9mm some years ago. As I recall, they're stated reasoning was that: with modern ammo, differences in terminal performance were negligible; less recoil meant faster, more accurate follow up shots; smaller rounds meant more ammo in a magazine. I'm sure cost per round came into play as well considering training budgets and all that.

 

That's because after the Miami shootout in '86 when the FBI decided to go to 10mm they discovered not a small number of agents could not handle the recoil of real 10mm ammo, the 10mm being the sidearm replacing the 38 special and 9mm of the time.

 

The 10 was watered down to the 40 and is now being watered down to the 9 again...

[ShadowCatcher]

14 hours ago, Wallaby Damned said:

Nah mate, the rifling just goes the other way down there. 

I've heard that about a lot of stuff from down there . . . . .

[Smokin Gator SASS #29736]

I just shot 2 matches Saturday and Sunday with a total of about 330 rounds of 40 s&w. 180 gr bullets at 950-975 fps. 170 to 175 power factor. I suspected that these aren't quite as hot as self defense ammo but after finding a couple of articles rating the top defensive types of ammo they are exactly in the same range. 

 

Most were lighter bullets at higher velocity but same power factor.  This was out of an all steel gun however and not a lighter polymer gun. I'd been shooting some 9mm 135pf lately and I could feel the difference but it's nothing approaching magnum revolver rounds.

[Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001]

I do not see the 40 , having that bad of a recoil , I kinda like the round , the 10mm is a bit snapper. 

 

  no contest to my Blue dot 44 44 manglem loads 

 

  I still think it could be fun to make a Glock 22 , into a 3 cal set up 

 

   CB 

 

  use anyone's ammo , if ya run low 

[Alpo]

6 minutes ago, Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001 said:

use anyone's ammo , if ya run low 

If you happen to have the other pieces of a gun with you.

 

If you're in a firefight with a bad guys and you're down to four 40 calibers, and that guy over there has got three full boxes of nine - that ain't going to help you one little bit if all your nine pieces are back at the house.

[bgavin]

They can whine and cry until they come up against a crazy with a machete... then they will thank that big kick.

[DeaconKC]

I've seen what a .40 will do to a human body. My bedside gun is a Sig 229 in .40.

[Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001]

that is when , ya take , their guns and ammo 

 

 asymmetric re supply 

 

  CB 

[watab kid]

so - now the force needs all new weapons and the department has to get rid of these previously issued items ? here they get bought back by the resuplier and then recycled into our system , but then there is the issue of resupply of ammo - the old stuff aint working in the new stuff so now you gotta but a new supply of the new caliber and rid yourself of the old - while it would make sense to send it with the arms to the new buyer/user at added cost , i know government just well enough to know logic seldom applies , be interesting to know how it works out there 

 

i have a S&W M59 that was highway patrol issued a good while back ,, ive always felt fortunate that we dont crush or otherwise destroy things of value , its one of my favorite handguns - it is 9mm - i suppose they went to glocks , likely 40s - that was the era of that change 

[Henry T Harrison]

On 6/19/2023 at 7:12 PM, DeaconKC said:

I carried a .40 cal Glock for my Department for 17 years. Many of the Agents I worked with were smaller framed female shooters and handled the guns well. Hopefully they will sell the guns to a US distributor.

Our department carried Glock 21’s and the women carried Glock 23’s not because they were weak but because it fit their hands 

[Rye Miles #13621]

My neighbor is a Transit Authority officer(RTA) then switched to 9mm from .40 and she was able to buy her .40 which she likes better than the 9. She’s not a big girl, maybe 5’4” and about 120. 

[Texas Lizard]

When all done and said....Does it not come down to shot placement....

 

Texas Lizard

[Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619]

On 6/19/2023 at 9:05 PM, Cypress Sun said:

 

The last ammo left on the shelves during the plaque/BLM riots/election drama, etc., was .40 S&W. It was the lone ammo left to buy and was still plentiful for a good long time after everything else was gone. That makes a pretty good judge of how well the .40 is really liked.

 

Exactly the case here. My local Bass had mountains of .40 S&W for months while there were virtually no other pistol rounds available during that time.

[Dantankerous]

Yup.

 

Seems I remember at Wallyworld during Iraq/Afghanistan 9mm and 45acp were non existant but 40 was everywhere AND cheap.

 

 

[Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967]

Reminds me of my son - he has a S&W M&P Shield in .40.  Now, ya wanna talk about sharp and torquey and whippy?

 

"Dad, I didn't buy it for plinking.  I bought it because it will make a big hole with some finality and won't require a bunch of follow-up shots."  

[bgavin]

I was idly kicking the tires on a Dan Wesson PM7 in 45acp, but did the math on stopping power compared to my 44 mags.
 

[Buckshot Bob]

40 S&W was a solution to a problem that didn’t exist. But I would never want to discourage another caliber. Many competitors still use it because it will easily make major power factor and it fits in the same size guns as a 9mm. I’ve got a couple glock 40 cal uppers just because of the abundance of ammo others have mentioned. Ya never know 
Handgun rounds kill primarily by blood loss , it just doesn’t have the hydrostatic shock a rifle cartridge does, If there’s anything bow hunting for 45 years has taught me it is that shot placement is king .

I used to only carry a 45 thinking a bigger hole is better “and it probably is if you only get one” . One of the studies I read “and I’ve read about every one I could find” interviewed quite a few surgeons who had allot of experience treating handgun wounds. The consensus was they couldn’t identify the caliber for certain unless they found the bullet.

Today I’m perfectly comfortable carrying a 9mm with good quality self defense ammo.

9mm has been tested more than anything out there and has preformed well in the real world when properly applied. In the end everything is a compromise, I’d like to always have a 308 or 12ga but that’s just not always possible.