New rifle and cartridge for the Army

[Trailrider #896]

The Army is getting ready (in a couple of years) a new rifle, the XM15 and new SAW, the XM250, with a 6.8mm cartridge, with a pressure of 80,000 psi, requiring a brass case body with a steel base!  (See The War Zone website).  Essentially, gives .270 Winchester ballistics from a 13-in. barrel! The penalty? The rifle is 2 lbs heavier than the M4.

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Found this article about it...

https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2022/04/19/army-chooses-sig-sauer-to-build-its-next-generation-squad-weapon/

It's still an AR type rifle.   According to a nephew in the service, it's basically a .308 necked down to a .27" bullet.   Similar to how the

.30-'06 can be necked down to .270 Winchester.

I guess it's an improvement over the glorified .22 we've been using for far too long.

[Eyesa Horg]

The Demtards will love that new "Brown" rifle.

[Dantankerous]

CMP all those 5.56 M16s and M4s?

[Eyesa Horg]

No, we'll give them to some terrorist group overseas to shoot at us with. 

[Dantankerous]

1 hour ago, Eyesa Horg said:

No, we'll give them to some terrorist group overseas to shoot at us with. 

 

Probably.

 

Likely.

 

 

[Pat Riot]

And then there will be a huge clamoring to get the latest and greatest military hardware and gear and then we’ll see all the fans of what we used to call “poodle shooters” poo-pooing their old favorite guns and ammo and singing the praises of this new wonder gun and wonder ammo until they realize it costs way too much…

 

Oh, never mind…

 

It ain’t worth going on about. 
 

 

Hmmm…they wouldn’t be nicknaming it the 6.8 Man-Bun by chance? 

[Wallaby Jack, SASS #44062]

46 minutes ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

.......
 

 

Hmmm…they wouldn’t be nicknaming it the 6.8 Man-Bun by chance? 

 

 

 ...... is there anything stopping us from doing just that ?  

 

[Pulp, SASS#28319]

80000 psi??  Can anyone say barrel burnout?

[Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967]

4 minutes ago, Pulp, SASS#28319 said:

80000 psi??  Can anyone say barrel burnout?

 

Uncle Sugar will buy extra barrels.  

[Utah Bob #35998]

4 hours ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

 

Oh, never mind…

 

It ain’t worth going on about. 

Exactly! 

[Buckshot Bob]

7 hours ago, Dantankerous said:

CMP all those 5.56 M16s and M4s?

Supposedly they are going to the 6.5 Grendel, don’t know if they will but all the m16’s/m4’s could be converted . The saw is supposedly the one going to the 270 short 

[Buckshot Bear]

Is this the new white plastic cased ammo? 

[Capt. James H. Callahan]

11 hours ago, Trailrider #896 said:

The Army is getting ready (in a couple of years) a new rifle, the XM15 and new SAW, the XM250, with a 6.8mm cartridge, with a pressure of 80,000 psi, requiring a brass case body with a steel base!  (See The War Zone website).  Essentially, gives .270 Winchester ballistics from a 13-in. barrel! The penalty? The rifle is 2 lbs heavier than the M4.

They're gonna mess around and get them so heavy they may as well go back to the M-14

JHC

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

3 hours ago, Capt. James H. Callahan said:

They're gonna mess around and get them so heavy they may as well go back to the M-14

JHC

Yep

[Buckshot Bob]

7 hours ago, Buckshot Bear said:

Is this the new white plastic cased ammo? 

No , the new 6.8 has a steel case head because of the pressures it runs , it’s like a 308 necked down to 270 that gets 270 velocity. 
And the cartridge for the infantry rifle which is supposedly still the AR is a 223 necked up to 270 .

 

[Buckshot Bob]

https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/breaking-army-selects-sig-for-next-generation-squad-weapons-ngsw-system/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=20220422_FridayDigest_379g&utm_campaign=/digest/breaking-army-selects-sig-for-next-generation-squad-weapons-ngsw-system/

[Trailrider #896]

14 hours ago, Pulp, SASS#28319 said:

80000 psi??  Can anyone say barrel burnout?

The .264 Winchester Mangle-em was a short-life barrel proposition when it first came out. Then the powder companies developed slower-burning powders that improved barrel life. Of course the .264 used 26-in. barrels, IIRC.  Not sure how that would work in a 13-incher.  Wonder how long this is going last, before "they" decide it is a bad idea? Back about 1934 or somewhat earlier, the Army was developing what became the M-1 Rifle...in .270.  But Douglas MacArthur said, "No! We have too much .30-06 left over from The War To End All Wars, so that is what we are going to use in the M-1!"

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

Something else to spend our money on simply because they can.  I see no measurable advantage to many of the new weapons that have been adopted since I left the service in 1978

[Dirty Dan Dawkins]

https://gamingballistic.com/2020/11/20/reloading-press-277-sig-fury-a-6-8-next-gen-possibility/

 

I still see no reason why standard cartridges in the 6mm -7mm range  won’t work. The end goal is to simply put holes in people.

 

[Sixgun Sheridan]

I saw a video on this somewhere. The rifle and cartridge has about as much recoil as an M-14. So say goodbye to controllable full-automatic fire. Again.

 

Also the barrels on the SAW are thinner than on the M249 and harder to change out. It won't be good for much extended firing.

[Tex Jones, SASS 2263]

The new rifles are to be issued to the close combat groups i.e. infantry, combat engineers, corpsmen, totaling 120,000.  The M4 will remain standard for all others.  There is a provision for the Marines and Special Operations groups to buy in, if they choose.  The Sig Sauer website has more detail.

[Utah Bob #35998]

Give em to the Ukranians to test.

[Ranger Dan]

.277 SIG Fury Demystified - GunsAmerica Digest

 

Good comparison to the 308 and 6.5 creedmore.

[Waxahachie Kid #17017 L]

23 hours ago, Eyesa Horg said:

No, we'll give them to some terrorist group overseas to shoot at us with. 

Give them to biden. He will then give them to the terrorists in Afghanistan. He already has some experience in that regard, and seems to be good at it...if he can remember to do it, and not get it mixed up with title 42, and mask mandates. Just deliver them to Delaware. Do it quietly, he will be napping. 

[Sedalia Dave]

Marrying Brass and Steel is not going to end well. They are too far apart on the galvanic scale.

[Dirty Dan Dawkins]

4 hours ago, Tex Jones, SASS 2263 said:

The new rifles are to be issued to the close combat groups i.e. infantry, combat engineers, corpsmen, totaling 120,000.  The M4 will remain standard for all others.  There is a provision for the Marines and Special Operations groups to buy in, if they choose.  The Sig Sauer website has more detail.

What is so magical about 3,000 fps for a close combat group? Inside 300 yards, 2700 ( or even much much less) will suffice at poking holes in people and maintain a reasonable trajectory. We’re talking FMJ’s here for combat, right?

I personally think most of these numbers do not mean squat, or at least not as much as the statisticians at DoD think.

 

Seems to me a modified 260 or 7-08 Ackley improved with a longer neck and maybe the shoulder moved slightly forward would have done the trick. 

[Buckshot Bob]

17 minutes ago, Dirty Dan Dawkins said:

 We’re talking FMJ’s here for combat, right?

Right now there are units using 77gr OTM in 556 and I’ve been told that there’s allot of hp use in 9mm in the Middle East . I can’t recall where but I read a article somewhere saying that the Geneva convention didn’t expressly spell out fmj only. Don’t know how there getting around it or if it really never was a hard and fast rule/law 

[Sedalia Dave]

The issue with the .556 is that it does not have the range that the 7.62X39 does. A lesson learned in the sand box was that the enemy could shoot at you but you couldn't effectively shoot back.

 

[Dutch Nichols, SASS #6461]

Te issue with the .556 is that it does not have the range that the 7.62X39 does.

WHAT are you talking about amigo?? did you mean 7.62 x 51 ??

556 waaaay outperforms the 7.62 x 39 which is basically a pointy 30-30.

[Slapshot]

47 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

The issue with the .556 is that it does not have the range that the 7.62X39 does. A lesson learned in the sand box was that the enemy could shoot at you but you couldn't effectively shoot back.

 

I would much rather have the 5.56 out of a AR then the 7.62x39 out of a AK for distance. The 5.56 in the Marines we had to qual at 500 yards and it wasn't that big of a problem hitting once you had your dope. A 7.62 out of a AK at 500 yards I would think you would be lucky to hit your target. Allot of the problem with the 5.56 is memebers not knowing how to shoot.

 

JMO

[Dutch Nichols, SASS #6461]

556 is MOA minute of angle think 1" at 100 meters

762 x 39 is basically MOPP....Minute of pie plate

[Tex Jones, SASS 2263]

It's not the 7.62X39, it's the 7.62X51 or .308.  According to the Army Project Manager, the 6.8 has a flatter trajectory than the 556 and is lethal out to 600 yds compared to 300 yd lethality with the 556. 

[Chili Ron]

Howdy,

A 357 in a carbine will surprise most folks.

Ive surprised more than one with the lever rifle shooting .38 specials.

Burning every bit of powder gives surprising impact.

Best

CR

 

[Smuteye John SASS#24774]

On 4/22/2022 at 11:18 AM, Trailrider #896 said:

The .264 Winchester Mangle-em was a short-life barrel proposition when it first came out. Then the powder companies developed slower-burning powders that improved barrel life. Of course the .264 used 26-in. barrels, IIRC.  Not sure how that would work in a 13-incher.  Wonder how long this is going last, before "they" decide it is a bad idea? Back about 1934 or somewhat earlier, the Army was developing what became the M-1 Rifle...in .270.  But Douglas MacArthur said, "No! We have too much .30-06 left over from The War To End All Wars, so that is what we are going to use in the M-1!"

The Brits developed an intermediate .284 (if I remember correctly) cartridge post WW2- but the Americans shoved the .308 down NATO's throat instead (because it was a short action clone of the '06 and they didn't want to change).  The original FAL development was based on using that round.