Hoss Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 Currently SDQ on previous stage. I would like to see this become a MSV.
Chicken George* Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 I said MSV but I did not understand what was being asked. Thanks PaleWolf for the clarification! This means that the shooter did not verify that all his guns were empty and safe at the unloading table. I vote for no change to this rule.
Keystone, SASS # 47578 Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 Well, There is post pinned on the first page of the Wire regarding the TG Meeting at EOT 2018. 2. The second suggestion was reducing the penalty for showing up at the LT with empties in a revolver from a SDQ on the previous stage to a Minor Safety. This also appeared to meet with TG approval.
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 The SDQ is not for having empties in a revolver...the penalty is for "failure to adhere to loading and unloading procedures"
Ramblin Gambler Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 Doesn't this penalty fall under the broader "Failure to adhere to the loading and unloading procedures"? If so, would that mean other violations of it would also become an MSV? Not that I'm opposed to that, but we oughta think about else falls into that category. The only other one I can recall would be leaving the loading table with loaded guns before being called to the line. IE, having loaded pistols in your holsters and going back to the cart for something.
Cemetery Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 gee, wonder what happens if you show up to the loading table of your first stage for the day with empty brass in the gun.........
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 8 minutes ago, Cemetery said: gee, wonder what happens if you show up to the loading table of your first stage for the day with empty brass in the gun......... NOTHING: Quote Competitors arriving at the designated loading area with uncleared firearms after completing a stage within the same day will be assessed a Stage Disqualification penalty on the previously completed stage. SHB p.28
Ramblin Gambler Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 14 minutes ago, Cemetery said: gee, wonder what happens if you show up to the loading table of your first stage for the day with empty brass in the gun......... Leprechauns appear from behind the targets, pants you, steal your brass, then run away. Don't ask how I know.
Turquoise Bill, SASS #39118 Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 If you show up at the loading table on the first day with brass in your revolvers from a previous practice, not from the current match, it's a No Call. TB
Shooting Bull Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 39 minutes ago, Ramblin Gambler said: Leprechauns appear from behind the targets, pants you, steal your brass, then run away. Don't ask how I know. Hoooooooooo BOY what trouble I could get into if this wasn't a family oriented website. (But just out of curiosity, do they use a general or local anesthesia? )
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 33 minutes ago, Turquoise Bill, SASS #39118 said: If you show up at the loading table on the first day with brass in your revolvers from a previous practice, not from the current match, it's a No Call. TB even day 2 of the same match is a no call...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 leave it alone,,,,, EVERY time you pick up a firearm you should check to make sure it's empty,,, you want the liability for relaxing a NRA standard?
dal sackett Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 I have done it. Was the last shooter and was half-way to the next stage when brain engaged. OOPS, brass in revolver. Told posse marshal and took the SDQ on prior stage as I earned it. My thoughts though. Since I was cleared by the ULT officer, should they not also share in the penalty. Isn't that their function … to ensure safety? I have seen this occur far too many times. Perhaps if the ULT officer had skin in the game they might be more attentive.
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 13 minutes ago, dal sackett said: I have done it. Was the last shooter and was half-way to the next stage when brain engaged. OOPS, brass in revolver. Told posse marshal and took the SDQ on prior stage as I earned it. My thoughts though. Since I was cleared by the ULT officer, should they not also share in the penalty. Isn't that their function … to ensure safety? I have seen this occur far too many times. Perhaps if the ULT officer had skin in the game they might be more attentive. Quote Loading and Unloading Area Conventions Shooting stages/areas at all SASS matches provide a loading and unloading area in proximity to the firing line. The primary responsibility for loading and unloading firearms always rests with the competitor. Shooters should always know the condition of their firearms and should never depend upon the Loading and Unloading officers to ensure their firearms are correctly loaded or unloaded. SHB p.27
dal sackett Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 PWB Thanks. I agree completely...my responsibility, my error and my SDQ. That said, are not penalties still assessable until all guns "cleared" by ULT official? ( not trying to transfer responsibility for failure to follow directions). If so, shouldn't the ULT official be diligent in ensuring they are clear? Not trying to create an issue, just trying to suggest way to motivate some ULT officials to be more observant.
Ramblin Gambler Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 I'd feel like crap if I was the UTO and someone got that penalty. That's why I'm diligent about it. Feeling like crap is about all you can do though unless the PM wants to fire you from UTO duties.
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted July 19, 2018 Posted July 19, 2018 1 hour ago, dal sackett said: I have done it. Was the last shooter and was half-way to the next stage when brain engaged. OOPS, brass in revolver. Told posse marshal and took the SDQ on prior stage as I earned it. My thoughts though. Since I was cleared by the ULT officer, should they not also share in the penalty. Isn't that their function … to ensure safety? I have seen this occur far too many times. Perhaps if the ULT officer had skin in the game they might be more attentive. who wud be the ult officer then?,,, are you going to hold a TO responsible to telling a shooter to move with a cocked gun in hand?
Nutmeg Ryder, SASS # 74966 Posted July 19, 2018 Posted July 19, 2018 SDQ is harsh, but the slight possibility of one round still being live and in the gun, possibly even under the hammer is way more harsh, leave this one as it is. I hate seeing it, calling it, but would hate to have someone get hurt, or worse a whole lot more.
watab kid Posted July 19, 2018 Posted July 19, 2018 ive yet to go to a match anywhere that they dont monitor the "unloading" so that makes it a given , how the heck does that happen ?
Sedalia Dave Posted July 19, 2018 Posted July 19, 2018 9 minutes ago, watab kid said: ive yet to go to a match anywhere that they dont monitor the "unloading" so that makes it a given , how the heck does that happen ? Most any time the shooter doesn't immediately go to the unloading table. For example a stage where there is a lot of discussion about whether or not the correct call was made.
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted July 19, 2018 Posted July 19, 2018 Leave it the way it is. Regardless of circumstances, it's the shooter's responsibility to visit the ULT. There is no valid reason, short of a Heart Attack not to.
Painted Mohawk SASS 77785 Posted July 19, 2018 Posted July 19, 2018 Done it twice myself & rightfully copped the SDQ...yes there should be a penalty but IMHO a MSV would suffice.
Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 Posted July 19, 2018 Posted July 19, 2018 Don't blame the ULT officer. I had one save my sorry butt before. Stage 11 of a two day match. Tired, arthritis kicking me hard, and I left the stage and headed straight for my cart. The ULT officer said, "Hey bonehead, would you like to come visit me first?"
Rye Miles #13621 Posted July 19, 2018 Posted July 19, 2018 I showed up once at the loading table for the first stage of the day with SNAP CAPS in both my pistols!!!
Shooting Bull Posted July 19, 2018 Posted July 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Rye Miles #13621 said: I showed up once at the loading table for the first stage of the day with SNAP CAPS in both my pistols!!! Been there, done that.
Ramblin Gambler Posted July 19, 2018 Posted July 19, 2018 10 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said: Most any time the shooter doesn't immediately go to the unloading table. For example a stage where there is a lot of discussion about whether or not the correct call was made. I think I've seen it most when there's a gun malfunction. Shooter (and half the posse) is anxious to see what was wrong with the gun. They generally need someone to remind them "Lets clear the rest of those guns first then look at the broke gun"
Yul Lose Posted July 19, 2018 Posted July 19, 2018 I usually work the ULT and at one match there were two pistol reloads, one for each pistol. One shooter, who didn’t think I needed to see his cleared pistols spun the cylinders and closed the gates and holstered them. I insisted that he show me the pistols and he insisted that they were empty. Reluctantly he drew the first one and opened the gate and spun the cylinder and started to put it away again and I told him there’s still one in there which he scoffed at and he proceeded to show me that I was right. He sheepishly thanked me after unloading the last piece of brass from the second one also.
Smoky Pistols Posted July 19, 2018 Posted July 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Shooting Bull said: Been there, done that. Me as well!
Rance - SASS # 54090 Posted July 19, 2018 Posted July 19, 2018 I don't know on this one.. SDQ seems like a massive call.. MSV seems ok.. But I do have major concerns about what happens from the unloading table.. to their gun cart.. To shagging brass.. or spotting.. Back to their gun cart.. Move To the next stage.. Going up to listen to the scenario.. Back to their gun cart.. and then to the loading table.. and "oops.. " "I've got brass in my pistols" " and by golly there's that round with the primer that missfired" hmmmm.. Rance Thinkin leave it alone.. It's a Major Safety Violation.. and really how many times does it actually happen??
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted July 19, 2018 Posted July 19, 2018 The ULTO is a very important position to ensure a cold range really is cold. Having empties in the pistol is not the problem, it is the round that was not fired that is worrisome. Or the shooter who loads four in one revolver and six in the other. When something bad happens it may be compounded into a full-blown "Train Wreck." Rance, I've seen it happen frequently.
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted July 19, 2018 Posted July 19, 2018 once in a while I will use the ejector on the revolver on the empty chamber first and then eject 4 empties and spin the cylinder quickly,,, just to see if I'm actually being watched,, as often as not the remaining brass isn't seen,,, yes I do get cussed laughingly,, well or maybe not so much
Eyesa Horg Posted July 19, 2018 Posted July 19, 2018 15 hours ago, Nutmeg Ryder, SASS # 74966 said: SDQ is harsh, but the slight possibility of one round still being live and in the gun, possibly even under the hammer is way more harsh, leave this one as it is. I hate seeing it, calling it, but would hate to have someone get hurt, or worse a whole lot more. I'm in full concurrence with Nutmeg. It felt like a kick in the chest when I did it at the beginning of the season and had to SDG myself! It's what ya get for letting yourself get distracted at the ULT. It sucks, but bet I don't do it again. Don't have a reason for why the table operator didn't catch me, but ultimately it's the shooters responsibility. Next shooter.
watab kid Posted July 20, 2018 Posted July 20, 2018 going to the loading table with snap caps is a lot different that skipping the unloading table - lost your brass too ???
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