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Hoss

Coming to loading table with empty cases in revolver penalty

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Currently SDQ on previous stage. I would like to see this become a MSV. 

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I said MSV but I did not understand what was being asked. Thanks PaleWolf for the clarification! This means that the shooter did not verify that all his guns were empty and safe at the unloading table.

 

I vote for no change to this rule. 

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Well, There is post pinned on the first page of the Wire regarding the TG Meeting at EOT 2018.

 

2.     The second suggestion was reducing the penalty for showing up at the LT with empties in a revolver from a SDQ on the previous stage to a Minor Safety.  This also appeared to meet with TG approval.

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The SDQ is not for having empties in a revolver...the penalty is for "failure to adhere to loading and unloading procedures" 

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Doesn't this penalty fall under the broader "Failure to adhere to the loading and unloading procedures"?  If so, would that mean other violations of it would also become an MSV?  Not that I'm opposed to that, but we oughta think about else falls into that category.  The only other one I can recall would be leaving the loading table with loaded guns before being called to the line.  IE, having loaded pistols in your holsters and going back to the cart for something. 

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gee, wonder what happens if you show up to the loading table of your first stage for the day with empty brass in the gun.........

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8 minutes ago, Cemetery said:

gee, wonder what happens if you show up to the loading table of your first stage for the day with empty brass in the gun.........

 

NOTHING:

 

Quote

Competitors arriving at the designated loading area with uncleared firearms after completing a stage within the same day will be assessed a Stage Disqualification penalty on the previously completed stage. 

SHB p.28

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14 minutes ago, Cemetery said:

gee, wonder what happens if you show up to the loading table of your first stage for the day with empty brass in the gun.........

 

Leprechauns appear from behind the targets, pants you, steal your brass, then run away. 

 

Don't ask how I know. 

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If you show up at the loading table on the first day with brass in your revolvers from a previous practice, not from the current match, it's a No Call.

 

 

TB

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39 minutes ago, Ramblin Gambler said:

 

Leprechauns appear from behind the targets, pants you, steal your brass, then run away. 

 

Don't ask how I know. 

 

 

Hoooooooooo BOY what trouble I could get into if this wasn't a family oriented website. :lol:

 

(But just out of curiosity, do they use a general or local anesthesia? :wacko: )

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33 minutes ago, Turquoise Bill, SASS #39118 said:

If you show up at the loading table on the first day with brass in your revolvers from a previous practice, not from the current match, it's a No Call.

 

 

TB

even day 2 of the same match is a no call...

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leave it alone,,,,, EVERY time you pick up a firearm you should check to make sure it's empty,,,  you want the liability for relaxing a NRA standard?

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I have done it.  Was the last shooter and was half-way to the next stage when brain engaged.  OOPS, brass in revolver.  Told posse marshal and took the SDQ on prior stage as I earned it.  My thoughts though.  Since I was cleared by the ULT officer, should they not also share in the penalty.  Isn't that their  function … to ensure safety?  I have seen this occur far too many times.  Perhaps if the ULT officer had skin in the game they might be more attentive.  

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13 minutes ago, dal sackett said:

I have done it.  Was the last shooter and was half-way to the next stage when brain engaged.  OOPS, brass in revolver.  Told posse marshal and took the SDQ on prior stage as I earned it.  My thoughts though.  Since I was cleared by the ULT officer, should they not also share in the penalty.  Isn't that their  function … to ensure safety?  I have seen this occur far too many times.  Perhaps if the ULT officer had skin in the game they might be more attentive.  

 

Quote

Loading and Unloading Area Conventions

Shooting stages/areas at all SASS matches provide a loading and unloading area in proximity to the firing line.  The primary responsibility for loading and unloading firearms always rests with the competitor.  Shooters should always know the condition of their firearms and should never depend upon the Loading and Unloading officers to ensure their firearms are correctly loaded or unloaded.   

SHB p.27

 

 

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PWB  Thanks.

I agree completely...my responsibility, my error and my SDQ.  That said, are not penalties still assessable until all guns "cleared" by ULT official? ( not trying to transfer responsibility for failure to follow directions).   If so, shouldn't the ULT official be diligent in ensuring they are clear?  Not trying to create an issue, just trying to suggest way to motivate some ULT officials to be more observant. 

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I'd feel like crap if I was the UTO and someone got that penalty.  That's why I'm diligent about it.  Feeling like crap is about all you can do though unless the PM wants to fire you from UTO duties. 

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1 hour ago, dal sackett said:

I have done it.  Was the last shooter and was half-way to the next stage when brain engaged.  OOPS, brass in revolver.  Told posse marshal and took the SDQ on prior stage as I earned it.  My thoughts though.  Since I was cleared by the ULT officer, should they not also share in the penalty.  Isn't that their  function … to ensure safety?  I have seen this occur far too many times.  Perhaps if the ULT officer had skin in the game they might be more attentive.  

who wud be the ult officer then?,,, are you going to hold a TO responsible to telling a shooter to move with a cocked gun in hand?

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SDQ is harsh, but the slight possibility of one round still being live and in the gun, possibly even under the hammer is way more harsh, leave this one as it is.  

I hate seeing it, calling it, but would hate to have someone get hurt, or worse a whole lot more. 

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ive yet to go to a match anywhere that they dont monitor the "unloading" so that makes it a given , how the heck does that happen ? 

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9 minutes ago, watab kid said:

ive yet to go to a match anywhere that they dont monitor the "unloading" so that makes it a given , how the heck does that happen ? 

 

Most any time the shooter doesn't immediately go to the unloading table. For example a stage where there is a lot of discussion about whether or not the correct call was made.

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Leave it the way it is.  Regardless of circumstances, it's the shooter's responsibility to visit the ULT.  There is no valid reason, short of a Heart Attack not to.

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Done it twice myself & rightfully copped the  SDQ...yes there should be a  penalty but IMHO a MSV would suffice.

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Don't blame the ULT officer. I had one save my sorry butt before. Stage 11 of a two day match. Tired, arthritis kicking me hard, and I left the stage and headed straight for my cart. The ULT officer said, "Hey bonehead, would you like to come visit me first?" :wacko:

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I showed up once at the loading table for the first stage of the day with SNAP CAPS in both my pistols!!!:lol:

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1 hour ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I showed up once at the loading table for the first stage of the day with SNAP CAPS in both my pistols!!!:lol:

 

Been there, done that. :lol:

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10 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

Most any time the shooter doesn't immediately go to the unloading table. For example a stage where there is a lot of discussion about whether or not the correct call was made.

 

I think I've seen it most when there's a gun malfunction.  Shooter (and half the posse) is anxious to see what was wrong with the gun.  They generally need someone to remind them "Lets clear the rest of those guns first then look at the broke gun"

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I usually work the ULT and at one match there were two pistol reloads, one for each pistol. One shooter, who didn’t think I needed to see his cleared pistols spun the cylinders and closed the gates and holstered them. I insisted that he show me the pistols and he insisted that they were empty. Reluctantly he drew the first one and opened the gate and spun the cylinder and started to put it away again and I told him there’s still one in there which he scoffed at and he proceeded to show me that I was right. He sheepishly thanked me after unloading the last piece of brass from the second one also.

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1 hour ago, Shooting Bull said:

 

Been there, done that. :lol:

Me as well! 

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I don't know on this one..

SDQ seems like a massive call.. :mellow:

MSV seems ok.. :huh:

But I do have major concerns about what happens

from the unloading table.. to their gun cart.. To shagging brass..

or spotting.. Back to their gun cart.. Move To the next stage..

Going up to listen to the scenario.. Back to their gun cart..

and then to the loading table.. and "oops.. " :unsure:

"I've got brass in my pistols" " and by golly there's that round with 

the primer that missfired"  :rolleyes: hmmmm..

 

Rance ;)

Thinkin leave it alone..

It's a Major Safety Violation..

and really :mellow: how many times does it actually happen??

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The ULTO is a very important position to ensure a cold range really is cold.

 

Having empties in the pistol is not the problem, it is the round that was not fired that is worrisome. Or the shooter who loads four in one revolver and six in the other.  When something bad happens it may be compounded into a full-blown "Train Wreck."

 

Rance, I've seen it happen frequently.

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once in a while I will use the ejector on the revolver on the empty chamber first and then eject 4 empties and spin the cylinder quickly,,,  just to see if I'm actually being watched,, as often as not the remaining brass isn't seen,,,  yes I do get cussed laughingly,, well or maybe not so much

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15 hours ago, Nutmeg Ryder, SASS # 74966 said:

SDQ is harsh, but the slight possibility of one round still being live and in the gun, possibly even under the hammer is way more harsh, leave this one as it is.  

I hate seeing it, calling it, but would hate to have someone get hurt, or worse a whole lot more. 

I'm in full concurrence with Nutmeg. It felt like a kick in the chest when I did it at the beginning of the season and had to SDG myself! It's what ya get for letting yourself get distracted at the ULT. It sucks, but bet I don't do it again.  Don't have a reason for why the table operator didn't catch me, but ultimately it's the shooters responsibility. Next shooter.

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MSV is my vote. 

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going to the loading table with snap caps is a lot different that skipping the unloading table - lost your brass too ???

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