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Tommy Reb

SASS Membership Fees

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Perhaps the price was set too low...oh, but I'm sure y'all would complain that they should raise the membership if you knew the price was too low.

 

So, how would all you schmart people rectify that situation???

 

And usery...really???

 

Phantom

 

PS: One my not drink beer...nor eat McDonald's hamburgers...but I'm sure they frivolously spend $20/year on other non-essentials that they could easily cut back on...to make up that whole 20 bucks.

 

Just because one may spend money frivolously at least they know what they are paying for. I don't mind increases and in fact I understand them if I know why they are being levied! Would it be too much to ask for someone to say we are raising the fees and this is why?

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Although I can easily afford increase, I rather spend the money on beer, dinner, etc.,

Not sure what you get for the money, I used to get a chronicle now I don't but now price is going up , are we going to get chronicle back ?

SASs now gets $5 per shooter for the bigger matches, $ variable amount from clubs, and now a increase from shooters. NRA has remained pretty consistant on their membership, atl least you get a magazine and they are fighting for 2 nd amendment .

 

If I did not shoot a couple of matches that require SASS membership I would not renew, unless WB were paying PWB because he deserves a check.

 

AO

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And what do I get that is worth $65 a year?

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And what do I get that is worth $65 a year?

 

Overly moderated access to the SASS Wire?

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Perhaps the price was set too low...oh, but I'm sure y'all would complain that they should raise the membership if you knew the price was too low.

 

So, how would all you schmart people rectify that situation???

 

And usery...really???

 

Phantom

 

PS: One my not drink beer...nor eat McDonald's hamburgers...but I'm sure they frivolously spend $20/year on other non-essentials that they could easily cut back on...to make up that whole 20 bucks.

Ok, maybe 'usery' was too strong or an incorrect word to use.

 

I understand that costs rise for individuals, business and not-for-profit (as I understand SASS is going to become) orgainzations. But to levy a 44% increase seems a bit extreme. $45 to $50, ok not a horrible increase. $45 to $55, not ideal but still not horrible. $45 to $65 is quite a jump.

 

I drink beer, Guinness mostly, probably 98% of the beer I consume.I eat at McDonald's maybe once every 4-6 months. I'm glad you're in a position where $20 isn't a big deal and in the scheme of things, $20/year isn't that big a deal. But it just seems like an overly large single stage increase.

 

Some of us are still putting a kid or two through college and get hit with rather large increases from those wonderful institutions also. Imagine my 'pleasure' at tuition time, we just got the bill for fall semester for pre-med. Joy.

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Everyone's financial situation is different. $20 more for SASS membership, $150 more for gas, $200 more in property tax, $1,000 more for health care, etc.... and only 2% more pay. I'm sure SASS did the math and knows how many members they can lose and still be money ahead.

 

Remember the post about big and close targets vs. smaller and farther and keeping the customer happy? $35 to $45 to $65. this doesn't keep me happy.

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PS: One my not drink beer...nor eat McDonald's hamburgers...but I'm sure they frivolously spend $20/year on other non-essentials that they could easily cut back on...to make up that whole 20 bucks.

 

 

You mean non-essentials like bullets and primers?? No! That wouldn't work...... Let's see...... Tires for the car?? Not feasible..... Stop eating out?? Don't do that often!! Guess we COULD skip the banquet at the next big match that we spent a thousand bucks and drove eight hours one way to attend, or maybe not board the dog and leave her at home with a bowl of water and some food for three or four days...... :o

 

There are folks that WILL have to make those choices!! It's sad, but some of us are on fixed incomes or are like, low paid teachers and such, who are sorta being blind sided by an added expense that they hadn't planned on. Some of us spend our last unencumbered dollar just to make these trips and matches and already do without in other areas just so's this can continue to be an outlet for enjoyment or relaxation!!

 

While I understand, and to a point agree with you, on the, in the grand scheme of things, small additional outlay involved here, there ARE folks that we all enjoy having around for the match who just may NOT be able to continue!!

 

THAT'S SAD!!!

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Does anyone here know the break down of members that shoot only local matches or only local and maybe 1 or 2 sanctioned matches a year?

 

This increase may have a bad effect in the long run as I think the # s at the bigger shoots are already going in the wrong direction and this increase MAY push it in that direction faster.

 

Many shooters as mention above in another post are SASS members because it wasn't a big deal to be a member even if they never shot any big matches ever but you can bet yer bottom $ they will think twice about that now!!!

 

Hope the powers that be took all of this in account when the decree was passed! Yes I will keep paying because I can and I like shooting the big matches even more than the monthly' and yes I enjoy them as well!!

 

Spades H. While I have no proof of the # s I really think the local only shooters far out number the shooters that regularly attend the big matches if this is true the increase will hurt more than help! Hope I'm wrong.

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We all are entitled to our opinion. Mine is , it's only $20. No big deal. The percentage means nothing to me as long as I'm getting my money's worth.

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Ok, maybe 'usery' was too strong or an incorrect word to use.

Hello Lost Trail,

 

You have that correct. The owners do not make loans.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

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INCREASING FEES WITH ZERO EXPLANATION IS

NOT THE COWBOY WAY


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INCREASING FEES WITH ZERO EXPLANATION IS

NOT THE COWBOY WAY

 

 

 

Well I love your big red words.

 

Let's talk about the Cowboy Way.

 

If you trust a guy you do business with, and you might even be friends...tells ya he needs to raise his rate of doing business with ya to make him competitive. What do you do?

 

And as far as the Chronicle, we still have it and it cost SASS money to produce it. Less then before...but before was driving 'em out of biz...perhaps all you "Cowboys" would rather they fold...or whatever...

 

Phantom

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Hello,

 

Instead of bashing the owners and moderators, why don't you ask the reason from someone in the Office, who may have an answer to the reason for a fee increase.

 

Too many posters make negative assumptions without having all of the facts.

 

The following post explains some of the Guidelines that the Moderators try to get posters to follow. http://sassnet.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=240885&p=3143325

 

The full Guidelines are here. http://sassnet.com/forums/index.php?app=forums&module=extras&section=boardrules It seems that this thread could be considered instigating or an attempt at leading a "lynch mob" for the owners. It has definitely had some rude comments. A discussion of the topic is fine, rudeness is not.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

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Just my $65.00 worth. My wife has never shot but We thought that an alias & badge would be fun. Not again!

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1.25 a week. Can't beat that. A newspaper cost more then that. 1.25 a week is still the best bargain around to be a part of. MT

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Makes you wish you had bought a life membership, doesn't it?

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All,

 

I don't want any of you to think this thread or your concerns and questions regarding the membership rate increases are being overlooked. I am compiling a statement of information as we speak; one that will be informative, transparent, and 100% honest. I want to take my time and make sure that all of the information is included to help you understand why this was unavoidable. I am not going to play the blame game, and it is my hope you wont either. Facts are forthcoming....

 

Allie Mo & Wire Moderators- please do not lock this thread or delete comments. With that being said, Ladies & Gentlemen, please do your best to communicate your questions and frustrations without speculative instigation and unfounded accusations. Handle yourself with respect and integrity, and I will address them all in kind.

 

Thank you for your patience; please stand by.

 

Misty Moonshine

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Hello,

 

Instead of bashing the owners and moderators, why don't you ask the reason from someone in the Office, who may have an answer to the reason for a fee increase.

 

Too many posters make negative assumptions without having all of the facts.

 

The following post explains some of the Guidelines that the Moderators try to get posters to follow. http://sassnet.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=240885&p=3143325

 

The full Guidelines are here. http://sassnet.com/forums/index.php?app=forums&module=extras&section=boardrules It seems that this thread could be considered instigating or an attempt at leading a "lynch mob" for the owners. It has definitely had some rude comments. A discussion of the topic is fine, rudeness is not.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

 

OK, I'll bite. Why is asking questions and being against a fee increase seen as disruptive and negative, even rude. But comments backing the decision and making derisive comments about those folks considered OK? As far as asking why, why didn't the owners say why they suddenly need this increased revenue? Instead they just throw it out there, as if to say "Love it or leave it". I don't really care, as I am a life member. My costs were fixed years ago. But I am not going to try and howl down those who wish to ask questions and know why.

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Goody, please read post 52, just before yours.

 

Asking questions per se is not rude, the way they are asked can be. There are derogatory statements on this thread, not just questions.

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Goody, please read post 52, just before yours.

 

Asking questions per se is not rude, the way they are asked can be. There are derogatory statements on this thread not just questions.

 

I have. I was in the middle of typing mine when she posted. Again, I need no explanation. My post was wondering why one side, the side asking questions, is considered bad. While the other side seems to be able to say what they will, without being called down and threatened with being locked out simply because they are in agreement with the management.

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I remember paying 4 dollars a gal for diesel to go to monthlys, and huge reloading prices. Our monthly shoots are 2.5 to 3.5 hrs away. If sass needs a little more from us, they can have it with a smile. We can make up that 20 bucks in the first monthly shoot today. Cowboy shooting is cheaper for us than its ever been, and we feel we owe sass a lot.

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Mortgage payment going down next year, real estate taxes going up. Gas prices dropping, cost of reloading going up. It all balances out. I thought Miss Misty would have something to say. Let's wait for that.

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NRA offers a program for life membership with quarterly payments, among other money saving options. At the rates S.A.S.S. now charges it is less expensive to be a member of NRA and GOA than to be a member of S.A.S.S.!!! Maybe the Mild Bunch should seriously consider some of those same membership options!!! :unsure::angry:

 

I use the NRA payment plan for life and really like it. I wish SASS would offer that option.

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Glad I renewed last month, but it's only $20 bucks. I don't see any issue with it.

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The question each and every SASS member needs to ask themselves is…”Do I want SASS to survive and thrive or just fade away?”

 

Regardless whether SASS remains a for-profit corporation or becomes a non-profit, they still have expenses and need a revenue stream to cover those expenses. Just like any business, they need to keep the lights on, pay their property taxes, pay their insurance, maintain their property, make improvements, pay the salaries of their employees, bookkeeper, accountant, and let’s not forget the lawyers fighting the lawsuits. Those things aren’t cheap and they won’t go away no matter what type of business entity SASS ultimately becomes.

 

As the treasurer for a non-profit, I know from personal experience that there is a membership threshold at which an organization hits the break-even point. Above that number, there are funds to make improvements, replace aging equipment, hire help when needed, and save funds for those unexpected expenses. Drop below that threshold and things start getting tight real fast. Then throw in an unexpected big expense, (i.e. Lawsuits in the case of SASS), and any reserves that may exist are depleted quickly and in the blink of an eye, the business is running in the deep red. At that point, the organization needs to quickly implement changes, most of them unpleasant, to reverse the situation or face certain doom.

 

SASS has been making those changes for at least the last year and, while I lamented the loss of the paper chronicle on the wire back in March 2014, it was one of those quick fixes that undoubtedly had a significant, immediate, positive, financial effect.

 

http://sassnet.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=219643&hl=%2Bpaper+%2Bchronicle

 

Having met Misty Moonshine and seen her in action at the Convention on several occasions, and reading her wire posts, I for one have great confidence in her and her abilities to right the ship and get us sailing again on smooth waters. I have no doubt that adding the Match Shooters Fee, Club Affiliation Fee, and increasing the Membership Fee, were not done without carefully considering what effect it might have on membership. Unfortunate, but doing nothing is only an option when you don’t care what happens. Doing what they did, indicates that SASS is aware of the situation and is actively working to address the problems and remain viable well into the future.

 

Do I jump for joy that I get to pay more? No, and like everyone else, somewhere my budget will take a hit so I can keep playing this game, but I will keep playing this game. Maybe I won’t buy that new pair of pants and, if I take Phantoms advice and skip McD’s, I might just fit into my old pants again! Or maybe, I will brown bag lunch at a few local matches, or skip side match day at a big match, or deal with the verbal abuse and drive my wife’s Prius to the match instead of my Truck :P . There are a hundred little ways to make up the extra dollars if we take the time to think about it.

 

For my wife and I the extra cost per year will be maybe $60.00 in Shooters Fees (1 Annual, 3 State Matches, 1 Regional, 1 Divisional) as we are Life Members, but even the additional $40.00 we would have paid on top of the previous membership fee still only brings the additional cost up to $100.00 a year. I know, $100.00 is not chicken feed (chicken feed probably costs more than that) but what is the cost of not having SASS? I don’t even like to imagine that possibility.

 

So, do you want SASS to survive and thrive or just fade away? I know I want it there for my grandkids, and their kids, and their kids……

 

Thanks for listening and I hope to see you on the Range,

 

Dogmeat Dad

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We all like something for free. I go to Costco and the free samples taste amazing and then I buy the product and it doesn't taste nearly as good. I feel the membership costs were to low. I would think most people would also think it was pretty low and to low sense SASS started. So once you figure what an ok increase would be. I'm guessing we're now talking about a very little amount of money if any at all. I feel bad for the people that don't realize what SASS does for this sport. If you don't know ,that just tells me you haven't got to know the small handful of employees that work their butts off to help run SASS and that tells me you haven't seen all the things they do to keep this an ORGANIZED sport. Every single thing SASS does to keep this sport going costs money. Every photo copy they need to make costs money. Every time somebody calls the SASS office to ask a question they feel is important it costs money to have somebody answer the phone. I feel bad for the people that work for SASS. I'm betting they don't hear to often about the good job they do and I bet they hear constantly how bad things are. I can tell you I've ran a lot of good businesses and I couldn't run SASS any better. So I won't second guess them now. I don't have to like every choice they make, but I'm not going to be an arm chair quarterback either. That's not the Cowboy way. I know everybody's budget is different and it's tough for larger families to spend that money, but I've got two boys that I hope enjoy this sport as much as I do and I'm hoping you great Cowboys are still there to help mentor them into great young men. I started really young and some of the best mentors I had were my SASS family. Just my thoughts on the matter. I hope to see you all on the range.

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+1

I'm letting Dogmeat write for me next time. He said what I tried to say, but much better.

 

 

The question each and every SASS member needs to ask themselves isDo I want SASS to survive and thrive or just fade away?

 

Regardless whether SASS remains a for-profit corporation or becomes a non-profit, they still have expenses and need a revenue stream to cover those expenses. Just like any business, they need to keep the lights on, pay their property taxes, pay their insurance, maintain their property, make improvements, pay the salaries of their employees, bookkeeper, accountant, and lets not forget the lawyers fighting the lawsuits. Those things arent cheap and they wont go away no matter what type of business entity SASS ultimately becomes.

 

As the treasurer for a non-profit, I know from personal experience that there is a membership threshold at which an organization hits the break-even point. Above that number, there are funds to make improvements, replace aging equipment, hire help when needed, and save funds for those unexpected expenses. Drop below that threshold and things start getting tight real fast. Then throw in an unexpected big expense, (i.e. Lawsuits in the case of SASS), and any reserves that may exist are depleted quickly and in the blink of an eye, the business is running in the deep red. At that point, the organization needs to quickly implement changes, most of them unpleasant, to reverse the situation or face certain doom.

 

SASS has been making those changes for at least the last year and, while I lamented the loss of the paper chronicle on the wire back in March 2014, it was one of those quick fixes that undoubtedly had a significant, immediate, positive, financial effect.

 

http://sassnet.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=219643&hl=%2Bpaper+%2Bchronicle

 

Having met Misty Moonshine and seen her in action at the Convention on several occasions, and reading her wire posts, I for one have great confidence in her and her abilities to right the ship and get us sailing again on smooth waters. I have no doubt that adding the Match Shooters Fee, Club Affiliation Fee, and increasing the Membership Fee, were not done without carefully considering what effect it might have on membership. Unfortunate, but doing nothing is only an option when you dont care what happens. Doing what they did, indicates that SASS is aware of the situation and is actively working to address the problems and remain viable well into the future.

 

Do I jump for joy that I get to pay more? No, and like everyone else, somewhere my budget will take a hit so I can keep playing this game, but I will keep playing this game. Maybe I wont buy that new pair of pants and, if I take Phantoms advice and skip McDs, I might just fit into my old pants again! Or maybe, I will brown bag lunch at a few local matches, or skip side match day at a big match, or deal with the verbal abuse and drive my wifes Prius to the match instead of my Truck :P . There are a hundred little ways to make up the extra dollars if we take the time to think about it.

 

For my wife and I the extra cost per year will be maybe $60.00 in Shooters Fees (1 Annual, 3 State Matches, 1 Regional, 1 Divisional) as we are Life Members, but even the additional $40.00 we would have paid on top of the previous membership fee still only brings the additional cost up to $100.00 a year. I know, $100.00 is not chicken feed (chicken feed probably costs more than that) but what is the cost of not having SASS? I dont even like to imagine that possibility.

 

So, do you want SASS to survive and thrive or just fade away? I know I want it there for my grandkids, and their kids, and their kids

 

Thanks for listening and I hope to see you on the Range,

 

Dogmeat Dad

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For those of you popping your suspenders over your sound financial decision to buy a life membership, let's go back a few years. SASS never wanted to sell life memberships. Judge Roy Bean wrote an impassioned piece in the Chronicle wherein he stated his considered opinion that if too many people bought life memberships, there would come a point in time when SASS would not have enough income to function. They caved in the face of a massive protest. Apparently we have reached that point in time, and I hope Misty will address the causes in her forthcoming financial statement. Life memberships might be part of the problem.

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For those of you popping your suspenders over your sound financial decision to buy a life membership, let's go back a few years. SASS never wanted to sell life memberships. Judge Roy Bean wrote an impassioned piece in the Chronicle wherein he stated his considered opinion that if too many people bought life memberships, there would come a point in time when SASS would not have enough income to function. They caved in the face of a massive protest. Apparently we have reached that point in time, and I hope Misty will address the causes in her forthcoming financial statement. Life memberships might be part of the problem.

 

Yessir, popping my suspenders :unsure: .

 

I became a life member because our club lost our TG. We would like to be represented. So I pulled the money out of my wallet to represent my club, and two others along the way. I considered it exortion at the time, not me trying to take advantage of SASS. Perhaps life memberships are part of the problem. Revoke them all, just like the free chronicle. You would think that if a $20 increase were warranted, the due diligence would have been done before deciding what the increase would be. As I have stated, I don't really care one way or the other. But remember while you're all talking about the cowboy way. It's a train that runs both directions. A little explanation before making decisions just might make people feel better about those decisions.

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$20 more a year...

 

How many beers does that equal per month?

 

or...about 7 gallons of gas...wonder how many Big Macs that $20 will buy...

 

Hmmmmm...tough choices.

 

Yea - I'm paying it and have no problem doing so.

 

Phantom

Totally agree with you and your opinions on this. SASS should have been charging affiliation fees from the start, it's like hey these guys started this and established rules for the game and we all shoot by these rules "but how dare they charge us for it". Other shooting groups pay their governing bodies a fee and we should as well. I say forget about the sliding scale based on membership and all clubs pay $100.00 regardless.

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The question each and every SASS member needs to ask themselves is…”Do I want SASS to survive and thrive or just fade away?”

 

Regardless whether SASS remains a for-profit corporation or becomes a non-profit, they still have expenses and need a revenue stream to cover those expenses. Just like any business, they need to keep the lights on, pay their property taxes, pay their insurance, maintain their property, make improvements, pay the salaries of their employees, bookkeeper, accountant, and let’s not forget the lawyers fighting the lawsuits. Those things aren’t cheap and they won’t go away no matter what type of business entity SASS ultimately becomes.

 

As the treasurer for a non-profit, I know from personal experience that there is a membership threshold at which an organization hits the break-even point. Above that number, there are funds to make improvements, replace aging equipment, hire help when needed, and save funds for those unexpected expenses. Drop below that threshold and things start getting tight real fast. Then throw in an unexpected big expense, (i.e. Lawsuits in the case of SASS), and any reserves that may exist are depleted quickly and in the blink of an eye, the business is running in the deep red. At that point, the organization needs to quickly implement changes, most of them unpleasant, to reverse the situation or face certain doom.

 

SASS has been making those changes for at least the last year and, while I lamented the loss of the paper chronicle on the wire back in March 2014, it was one of those quick fixes that undoubtedly had a significant, immediate, positive, financial effect.

 

http://sassnet.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=219643&hl=%2Bpaper+%2Bchronicle

 

Having met Misty Moonshine and seen her in action at the Convention on several occasions, and reading her wire posts, I for one have great confidence in her and her abilities to right the ship and get us sailing again on smooth waters. I have no doubt that adding the Match Shooters Fee, Club Affiliation Fee, and increasing the Membership Fee, were not done without carefully considering what effect it might have on membership. Unfortunate, but doing nothing is only an option when you don’t care what happens. Doing what they did, indicates that SASS is aware of the situation and is actively working to address the problems and remain viable well into the future.

 

Do I jump for joy that I get to pay more? No, and like everyone else, somewhere my budget will take a hit so I can keep playing this game, but I will keep playing this game. Maybe I won’t buy that new pair of pants and, if I take Phantoms advice and skip McD’s, I might just fit into my old pants again! Or maybe, I will brown bag lunch at a few local matches, or skip side match day at a big match, or deal with the verbal abuse and drive my wife’s Prius to the match instead of my Truck :P . There are a hundred little ways to make up the extra dollars if we take the time to think about it.

 

For my wife and I the extra cost per year will be maybe $60.00 in Shooters Fees (1 Annual, 3 State Matches, 1 Regional, 1 Divisional) as we are Life Members, but even the additional $40.00 we would have paid on top of the previous membership fee still only brings the additional cost up to $100.00 a year. I know, $100.00 is not chicken feed (chicken feed probably costs more than that) but what is the cost of not having SASS? I don’t even like to imagine that possibility.

 

So, do you want SASS to survive and thrive or just fade away? I know I want it there for my grandkids, and their kids, and their kids……

 

Thanks for listening and I hope to see you on the Range,

 

Dogmeat Dad

Amen brother, I knew I liked you for some reason.

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We all are entitled to our opinion. Mine is , it's only $20. No big deal. The percentage means nothing to me as long as I'm getting my money's worth.

You still owe me twenty dollars for shooting lessons. Lol

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Yessir, popping my suspenders :unsure: .

 

I became a life member because our club lost our TG. We would like to be represented. So I pulled the money out of my wallet to represent my club, and two others along the way. I considered it exortion at the time, not me trying to take advantage of SASS.

Perhaps life memberships are part of the problem. Revoke them all, just like the free chronicle.

...

 

I wouldn't recommend THAT course of action!

<_<

FWIW - Some Life members serve as their club's TG because they're the only one with a Life membership (since it's required to be club rep).

There is a "catch 22" for you.

Discouraging LIFE memberships while making them MANDATORY in order to represent a club; with a significant increase in the cost over the years.

That's one reason some of us are TGs for multiple clubs.

I'm also paying for two annual memberships...this latest increase amounts to the difference between one night's stay at Motel 6 vs more upscale lodging.

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I'll still string along for a while. I never had the spare disposable income to pony up for a life membership and in retrospect, I wish I had done without something else to afford it back then. I now have less that I can give up to afford the extra expense incurred to pay for a life membership and that cost has risen exponentially!! I once donated enough money so that four other people and I could pay for a life membership for one member to be a TG for us after our TG at the time passed away. You can't even be a Territorial Governor or a club unless you are a life member and you can't have a S.A.S.S. affiliated club without a TG!!

 

AH WELL!! Remember the golden rule!! THEM THAT'S GOT THE GOLD MAKES THE RULES!!! :lol::lol:<_<<_<<_<

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