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Tommy Reb

SASS Membership Fees

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I'll still string along for a while. I never had the spare disposable income to pony up for a life membership and in retrospect, I wish I had done without something else to afford it back then. I now have less that I can give up to afford the extra expense incurred to pay for a life membership and that cost has risen exponentially!! I once donated enough money so that four other people and I could pay for a life membership for one member to be a TG for us after our TG at the time passed away. You can't even be a Territorial Governor or a club unless you are a life member and

you can't have a S.A.S.S. affiliated club without a TG!!

Actually, a club is NOT REQUIRED to have a Territorial Governor to be affiliated.

 

...

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What cowboys may not know is that USPSA, Steel Challenge & IDPA pay the head office a fee PER SHOOTER at every monthly match, weather the shooter is a member of the organization or not.

Most matches it's a $1.00 per, but qualifier matches can be $5.00 per shooter.

So each shooter is paying a good chunk more than the membership fees noted in the below quoted post, it's just disguised in higher match fees.

 

HL

(Who, in the interest of full disclosure is a long time life member, but would have no problem paying the current yearly prices - I can't find anything else that gives me the chance to have as much fun for $65.00 per year.)

 

 

Well, my thoughts on the memberships is this: I might grumble a little but I know I will pay the extra $20 because I love this sport....but.......
Three of the shooting sports that are luring away the younger shooters are USPSA, Steel Challenge, and 3Gun. USPSA and Steel Challenge have merged under a single umbrella, so a membership to cover both sports is $40/year with steep discounts for 3 and 5 year memberships, and life memberships of $500 ($350 senior life). Associate memberships (all the benefits but no magazine) are only $25 with discounts for multiyear memberships. 3Gun memberships are $25 and include a magazine. Those sports don't interest me, but when we are trying to draw in younger shooters, they are stacking the deck against us when they all grew up on movies with the plastic guns in them

 

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PaleWolf! I stand corrected, but that was our understanding at the time. :rolleyes:B)

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I know of several Families, husband, spouse, and a couple young ones that are all SASS members, this will hit them hard. I agree, by yourself $20.00 not a real big deal, but multiply that out in a household, it adds up. Spouse and dependent fees went up too.

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Why such a steep increase, what caused it?

Why members not notified before hand so that those thinking of life membership could join prior to the increase? (any thought for grandfathering that in for members)

Is there a projection for another increase and when will that happen?

Will there be an age discount for yearly/3 year/life membership?

Why the charge for clubs for membership?

At the current rate of members and number of clubs, how much revenue increase will there be for S.A.S.S.?

Any chance of decreased life membership for those with membership over 10 years, 15 years, 20 years?

How long ago was the prior increase for membership?

Were any funds embezzled or inappropriate spending found within S.A.S.S.?

Has there been an audit recently within S.A.S.S. and the findings along with suggestions made by the auditor?

S.A.S.S. checkbook balance been dropping and for how long?

 

As time passes and reviewing this thread may think of some more. I hope others will just write out their questions. Bickering will never get ya anywhere along with sly comments as some have made.

Thank you

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Yessir, popping my suspenders :unsure: .

 

I became a life member because our club lost our TG. We would like to be represented. So I pulled the money out of my wallet to represent my club, and two others along the way. I considered it exortion at the time, not me trying to take advantage of SASS. Perhaps life memberships are part of the problem. Revoke them all, just like the free chronicle. You would think that if a $20 increase were warranted, the due diligence would have been done before deciding what the increase would be. As I have stated, I don't really care one way or the other. But remember while you're all talking about the cowboy way. It's a train that runs both directions. A little explanation before making decisions just might make people feel better about those decisions.

Sorry, Goody. Poor choice of words. I should have spent a little more time on that wise crack.

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Sorry, Goody. Poor choice of words. I should have spent a little more time on that wise crack.

 

it's all good, tensions running a little high on these two issues. I am not diametrically opposed to increases in fees, just don't think that an arbitrary number should be thrown out. Maybe $20 is the sweet spot, but what if it needs to be $30? Come back next year and ask for another $10? Can you imagine the clamor that would cause? I just would like see a little more transparency in the decisions being made, a little explanation of where the monies are being spent and where we are falling short.

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Just thoughts & opinions.....

 

 

I joined in 1992 & I don't remember the cost.

 

I found a renewal price of $35.00 from 1998.

 

 

$30.00 increase over 18 years is a difference of $1,67 increase per year,

 

Maybe they just waited too long & should have had smaller increases, no... wait....those would be called nuisance increases.

 

When times are good maybe they didn't increase things even though that would have been easy; now that members & funds are "reduced" all around everyone complains of the pinch.

 

 

Still the best game in town.

 

Really, if everything had never happened & someone started SASS today & said the cost was $65.00, I'd sign up & think it was a good deal.

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They sure did go up to 65

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All,

 

I don't want any of you to think this thread or your concerns and questions regarding the membership rate increases are being overlooked. I am compiling a statement of information as we speak; one that will be informative, transparent, and 100% honest. I want to take my time and make sure that all of the information is included to help you understand why this was unavoidable. I am not going to play the blame game, and it is my hope you wont either. Facts are forthcoming....

 

Allie Mo & Wire Moderators- please do not lock this thread or delete comments. With that being said, Ladies & Gentlemen, please do your best to communicate your questions and frustrations without speculative instigation and unfounded accusations. Handle yourself with respect and integrity, and I will address them all in kind.

 

Thank you for your patience; please stand by.

 

Misty Moonshine

 

I've worked in corporate communications/public affairs for 15 years now. As a professional in that field it strikes me that any such messaging should have been both developed and released before the price increase went into effect, in order to give the membership fair warning, and to field complaints such as those being aired here. Telling us after the fact is too late, and far too little -- and a nearly 50 percent price increase with no real warning is far too much.

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Might have been last year, don't exactly remember, but there was talk of SASS going to a non profit Corp. Did that happen? If not is it still on the burner?

 

Just wonderin...........

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Might have been last year, don't exactly remember, but there was talk of SASS going to a non profit Corp. Did that happen? If not is it still on the burner?

 

Just wonderin...........

Hello Big Sage,

 

Misty mentioned it again on the following thread. http://sassnet.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=241110&hl=

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

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This probably won't end well. My guess is that it will result in a loss in revenue due to fewer renewals. With the Chronicle already taken away, many will not be able to justify a $65 per person per year fee just for an alias. Others will not renew on the principle alone (based on a 50% increase in membership fees).

 

Take away benefits (The Chronicle) then substantially increase fees; sounds like health insurance. :unsure:

 

I'll continue to renew. My wife probably will not since she hasn't got to shoot since my first son was born 3 years ago. That is a net loss of $25 from my family.

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I'll play the broken record again... I don't see a need to be a SASS member unless I'm going to shoot at State and above, especially since the Chronicle is now free online to anyone who wanders over to the website. Yes, there's talk that there will be a paper Chronicle, but it's hard to justify $65 for a quarterly publication. And, that, in a nutshell, is the problem with SASS: no real reason to be a member unless you're going to states or above.

 

While we all love the game, and want to support it, there comes a point when someone has to say "Why is the cost $65 per year?" Since SASS is STILL not a true membership organization, they don't publish a balance sheet or income statement. We rely upon Misty's explanations, typically after there is a hue and cry over something. She SHOULD be out in front of this, but yet again she is not.

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Posted · Hidden by Misty Moonshine, August 26, 2015 - Banned member post
Hidden by Misty Moonshine, August 26, 2015 - Banned member post

A lot of folks on this thread are saying “IT is just $20”… “IT is worth it”. When we look at the big picture, IT isn’t just $20. Last I heard, SASS had somewhere between 30,000-35,000 members. Let’s say just 20,000 are annual-renewal members. At the current rate of $65 a year x 20,000, that’s $1.3 MILLION DOLLARS (you don’t need to take my word for it, just grab a calculator) Now, add on to that the per-shooter fees SASS demands from State-level and above matches, and the additional money SASS is demanding from clubs to pay for affiliation… For the average shooter who doesn’t attend state-level and above SASS Sanctioned shoots, and doesn't care about the electronic Chronicle, that’s a helluva lot of money just to have a website with an affiliated clubs list, a shooter-alias database, annual rules updates, and the SASS wire (where moderators are said to work for free).

 

Something else to keep in mind… when you go to a monthly match at your home club, take a look around and ask yourself “what does SASS actually own here?” the answer (unless you're standing on Founders Ranch) will most often be... absolutely nothing. SASS doesn’t own the range, doesn’t pay the range usage fees, doesn’t own the targets, facades, timers, etc. SASS doesn’t own or maintain the home club’s website. SASS doesn’t employ the Match Director, Range Master, or anyone else providing the opportunity. All of these things have come from the blood, sweat, donations, match entry fees and volunteer work of past and present shooters. But what about the format?... The rules?... Would we know what to do without them? We have the current copies of the rules already. Those too were provided by the input of past and present shooters. Bottom line, if the SASS corporation dissolved at midnight on a Friday, shooters would still show up at local matches Saturday morning, participate, and enjoy the camaraderie like they always have, scores would still be tabulated and posted to the club’s website or ACES as they always have, and until someone found the SASS website/wire to be missing, it’s doubtful anyone would know the difference. CAS shoots might not be able to be called "State", "National" or "World Championships" anymore, but local CAS monthly matches and annuals could go on indefinitely without a hitch. And, even if there weren't a dedicated website to list all affiliated clubs, links to other clubs in the area could be provided on each others websites to promote the sport in the given area.

 

I gotta go... I'm about to get banned again.

 

Maker (the guy who Allie Mo banned over the weekend)

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Well, I just talked to Dad who's two sons will not be rejoining SASS after hearing this news, it will be interesting if the collateral damage from this sudden dues increase with no explanation as of yet will impact renewals...

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Why such a steep increase, what caused it?

Why members not notified before hand so that those thinking of life membership could join prior to the increase? (any thought for grandfathering that in for members)

Is there a projection for another increase and when will that happen?

Will there be an age discount for yearly/3 year/life membership?

Why the charge for clubs for membership?

At the current rate of members and number of clubs, how much revenue increase will there be for S.A.S.S.?

Any chance of decreased life membership for those with membership over 10 years, 15 years, 20 years?

How long ago was the prior increase for membership?

Were any funds embezzled or inappropriate spending found within S.A.S.S.?

Has there been an audit recently within S.A.S.S. and the findings along with suggestions made by the auditor?

S.A.S.S. checkbook balance been dropping and for how long?

 

As time passes and reviewing this thread may think of some more. I hope others will just write out their questions. Bickering will never get ya anywhere along with sly comments as some have made.

Thank you

 

 

 

I did not know that we were at $65 per year either. I thought the demise of the Chronicle was supposed to save money??????

 

I will really need to consider my renewal especially since the demise of the Chronicle

 

This is sad.

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Maker you hit the nail on the head. At the local level no one would even notice if SASS vanished. The monthly shoots will still go on with no change. It's likely that some club will step up to hold a state championship. There are many other CAS forums available on the net. I'm not ever going to even see Founders Ranch let along shoot there, so again what do the majority of the SASS members get for that $65?

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It is still unbelievable that with all the chatter NO ONE has offered one viable reason for a $20.00 rate increase for membership. I am waiting to hear SOMETHING! Lack of financial accountability and transparency has been the ruin of many an organization.

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I understand as life goes on, things get more expensive. It's a fact of life, and most of us accept that. And a $ 20 increase of a single membership, while a little excessive in my opinion, can also be adapted to. But when you're paying for a family's membership, it tends to become more than a little excessive.... It's downright outrageous. That multiplier adds up pretty quickly.

It seems we will all be paying for the new cowboy chronicle quarterly magazine whether we want to or not.

 

Josey Kidd

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It is still unbelievable that with all the chatter NO ONE has offered one viable reason for a $20.00 rate increase for membership. I am waiting to hear SOMETHING! Lack of financial accountability and transparency has been the ruin of many an organization.

 

Marshal, it is coming.

 

All,

 

I don't want any of you to think this thread or your concerns and questions regarding the membership rate increases are being overlooked. I am compiling a statement of information as we speak; one that will be informative, transparent, and 100% honest. I want to take my time and make sure that all of the information is included to help you understand why this was unavoidable. I am not going to play the blame game, and it is my hope you wont either. Facts are forthcoming....

 

Allie Mo & Wire Moderators- please do not lock this thread or delete comments. With that being said, Ladies & Gentlemen, please do your best to communicate your questions and frustrations without speculative instigation and unfounded accusations. Handle yourself with respect and integrity, and I will address them all in kind.

 

Thank you for your patience; please stand by.

 

Misty Moonshine

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It is still unbelievable that with all the chatter NO ONE has offered one viable reason for a $20.00 rate increase for membership. I am waiting to hear SOMETHING! Lack of financial accountability and transparency has been the ruin of many an organization.

 

Cost of Founder's ranch and overhead

Cost and benefits for SASS employees.

Attorney fees reference lawsuit against SASS.

SASS headquarters.

Decrease in membership, lost of income.

Economy downturn, lost of income.

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A lot of you think $20 isn't bad and for one person it's probably not. Add in a wife 2 kids and 2 more down the road. Now add that up when your already only getting to shoot 4-5 times a year plus travel more leather more guns more ammo. I don't get me wrong I love this sport and my extended family but there is a breaking point when you struggle already. Im looking forward to the breakdown of fees like others. This will probably end my families SASS shooting at least at State and above.

 

DC

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A lot of you think $20 isn't bad and for one person it's probably not. Add in a wife 2 kids and 2 more down the road. Now add that up when your already only getting to shoot 4-5 times a year plus travel more leather more guns more ammo. I don't get me wrong I love this sport and my extended family but there is a breaking point when you struggle already. Im looking forward to the breakdown of fees like others. This will probably end my families SASS shooting at least at State and above.

 

DC

 

I'm hearing a lot of that and not just here!!

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I've worked in corporate communications/public affairs for 15 years now. As a professional in that field it strikes me that any such messaging should have been both developed and released before the price increase went into effect, in order to give the membership fair warning, and to field complaints such as those being aired here. Telling us after the fact is too late, and far too little -- and a nearly 50 percent price increase with no real warning is far too much.

+1,000,000,000

 

Planned increases and explanations thereof should ALWAYS come out BEFORE the changes are implemented. Business and communication 101.

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Marshal, it is coming.

 

The point is, "it is coming" is AFTER the fact, not before in the planning stages when it should have been done.

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Everyone,

 

I apologize for the delay. Explanation is forthcoming; I am awaiting approval of my comments/statements by the Board of Directors.

 

FYI- I will not post it to be swallowed by this thread; it will be a new post that I will pin to the wire.

 

I will continue to monitor this thread; but once my statement is posted, please use the new thread for questions.

 

 

Thanks in advance,

Misty

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+1,000,000,000

 

Planned increases and explanations thereof should ALWAYS come out BEFORE the changes are implemented. Business and communication 101.

 

 

I agree; let me clarify, please. The new renewal rate actually doesn't go in to effect for membership renewals until the November renewals...and the renewal notices for November are going out this week, with a thorough explanation of the increase.

Anyone who's membership comes up for renewal through October pay the old rate.

 

Misty

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hope SASS gets thru this OK!!

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I think most people expect over the course of time for membership costs to go up. That's just how inflation and that's how life works. What I think most people are having an issue here is that the membership price went up and we don't see an obvious reason for raising our costs almost 50% a year. Any other organization does this Members would have fits over raising costs of almost 50% a year. This should have been done gradually.

 

The paper cowboy Chronicle went away. That should've saved money. Not cost more.

 

At $65 a year, you are essentially pricing out all casual shooters that rarely if ever go to a state and above match. Our membership is up for renewal, and unless I see a better reason for reupping, I may just wait a few years until I'm ready to start competing at a higher level before rejoining SASS.

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Cost of Founder's ranch and overhead

Cost and benefits for SASS employees.

Attorney fees reference lawsuit against SASS.

SASS headquarters.

Decrease in membership, lost of income.

Economy downturn, lost of income.

#4 on this list may just have gotten worse with this sudden increase! I for one hope not,but it would not be as big of a surprise as this increase if it does.

 

All in all very poor public relations communication is not making this go down very well at all, I think most people are able to be open minded, when not blind sided, hope Misty M gets back sooner than later.

 

Seems something this important would have been discussed at length long before its implementation, there for why would the explanation take very long to come up with?

 

Just wonderingly?? Could the WB have thought this was going to be no big deal? Are they the ones that are now in shock!

 

Spades H.

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I fear bad things down the trail because of this,,,,

 

if SASS goes non-profit do the debts owed go away??? not exactly the cowboy way.... or will some of them still be repaid.. thinking of one in-particular...

Cheyenne-

 

You needn't fear about "bad things" or our debts "going away". That is not our intention whatsoever.

SASS, the California Corporation will be dissolved and its few debts settled fairly and LEGALLY once the Non-profit corporation is formed and up and running.

There are many facets to consider in this transition, and all options are being explored to ensure the SASS that arises out of this will be one that you (and I, and everyone involved) can hold their head high in pride to be a part of.

Please don't incite speculation into our intentions.

 

Misty

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I agree; let me clarify, please. The new renewal rate actually doesn't go in to effect for membership renewals until the November renewals...and the renewal notices for November are going out this week, with a thorough explanation of the increase.

Anyone who's membership comes up for renewal through October pay the old rate.

 

Misty

 

The renewal offer I received on August 18th was for $65 member, $55 spouse.

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