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Tommy Reb

SASS Membership Fees

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Seems something this important would have been discussed at length long before its implementation, there for why would the explanation take very long to come up with?

 

Just wonderingly?? Could the WB have thought this was going to be no big deal? Are they the ones that are now in shock!

 

Spades H.

It was discussed at length long before its implementation, in fact, it was avoided at all cost for the last 2 years.... we explored every single viable option prior to the rate increase... it was a last resort type option. The explanation didn't take long to come up with... the facts are the facts. But, in all honesty, the statement I'm about to release contains information that has not been transparent in SASS' 30+ years in business. I am waiting to release it for Founders/Board approval out of respect for them and the organization they built.

 

Misty

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The renewal offer I received on August 18th was for $65 member, $55 spouse.

Houston,

 

It looks like your membership is inactive; it expired on 3/5/2015. The last dues we received from you was when you joined SASS, 3/2014.

It looks like because of your membership's "Inactive" status, you got bumped into a different reel. What you should have received as an inactive member is a promotional offer of 15 months for the price of 12.

 

I'm sorry; it appears you didn't get the correct mailing that contained the renewal promotion for Inactive members.

 

 

Misty

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Hi Misty,

I just paid my renewal,due 8-20-15 and it was $65

 

SW

I see that; you sure did. I apologize... it looks like I need to reiterate to the girls answering the phones that the new rate needs to be adjusted for members whose expiration dates are through October. Please email me directly at misty@sassnet.com; I would be happy to coordinate your $20 refund.

 

Misty

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My question is this. The November renewals are going out this week with an explanation of increase. Why is it not already posted and pinned here before this thread even started. Misty you have made a big difference since coming aboard but the ball was dropped big time on this. I'll wait to see explanation before I decide my famlies future involvement in SASS but at $220 a year plus $120 for range membership at my home club plus travel it's going to be a difficult decision.

 

DC

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So....Can I call SASS HQ and prepurchase a few years membership before the "go into effect in October" deadline at the old rate???

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Misty,

FYI: I just renewed our memberships this weekend, on the website, and they came out at $65 for me and $55 for Cookie.

 

(Posted while you were posting. Email sent.)

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Cheyenne-

 

You needn't fear about "bad things" or our debts "going away". That is not our intention whatsoever.

SASS, the California Corporation will be dissolved and its few debts settled fairly and LEGALLY once the Non-profit corporation is formed and up and running.

There are many facets to consider in this transition, and all options are being explored to ensure the SASS that arises out of this will be one that you (and I, and everyone involved) can hold their head high in pride to be a part of.

Please don't incite speculation into our intentions.

 

Misty

thank you,,,,, I'll delete that as to not unfairly incite....

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I see that; you sure did. I apologize... it looks like I need to reiterate to the girls answering the phones that the new rate needs to be adjusted for members whose expiration dates are through October. Please email me directly at misty@sassnet.com; I would be happy to coordinate your $20 refund.

 

Misty

Maybe changing the website back to the regular rates until November 1 would help with the confusion.

 

DC

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Houston,

 

It looks like your membership is inactive; it expired on 3/5/2015. The last dues we received from you was when you joined SASS, 3/2014.

It looks like because of your membership's "Inactive" status, you got bumped into a different reel. What you should have received as an inactive member is a promotional offer of 15 months for the price of 12.

 

I'm sorry; it appears you didn't get the correct mailing that contained the renewal promotion for Inactive members.

 

 

Misty

 

 

 

I agree; let me clarify, please. The new renewal rate actually doesn't go in to effect for membership renewals until the November renewals...and the renewal notices for November are going out this week, with a thorough explanation of the increase.

Anyone who's membership comes up for renewal through October pay the old rate.

 

Misty

 

If the new renewal rate change doesn't happen until November, why is that the price now in August?

 

I didn't even know my membership had expired. I just looked right now through my emails and never got a renewal notice, and I was still getting emails about the new Cowboy Chronicles so didn't know.

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Maybe changing the website back to the regular rates until November 1 would help with the confusion.

 

DC

 

+1

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Maybe changing the website back to the regular rates until November 1 would help with the confusion.

 

DC

 

Because we send out renewal notices 2 months in advance, the November renewal notices will be received in the next week. Renewing online through our website is a one-price option; regardless of renewal date. So, if we had waited until November 1 to change the prices on the website, 3 months of renewals would potentially be being renewed at the old rate. (Including January 2016).

 

As I said, we will gladly refund the additional $20 to folks who renew online at the new date when their renewal date falls before 10/31/2015.

 

Mailing in your renewal or calling the office to renew will also ensure the old rate is honored.

 

Misty

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Please refer to pinned post "SASS Membership fees"...

 

Misty

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For those of you popping your suspenders over your sound financial decision to buy a life membership, let's go back a few years. SASS never wanted to sell life memberships. Judge Roy Bean wrote an impassioned piece in the Chronicle wherein he stated his considered opinion that if too many people bought life memberships, there would come a point in time when SASS would not have enough income to function. They caved in the face of a massive protest. Apparently we have reached that point in time, and I hope Misty will address the causes in her forthcoming financial statement. Life memberships might be part of the problem.

This is one of the reason that I have never got a Life membership. Been paying my yearly membership dues for the last 20 years. Besides at that time had to put kids through school and paying, I think 300.00 for a Life membership was a bit too much at that time. Maybe I should have and broke more than even to date. But, it is what it is. Will I pay the 65.00 dues? Probably yes, just because I enjoy the game. Will I pay for a Life membership? Probably not, just because I am 20 years older (mind you, my age is TOP SECRET <_<:) ) and it's more expensive and will not reap the benefits of a Life Member, if there's any. Oh well.

 

IMO, there should be a 3 year membership payment option with a slight decrease/discounted amount like previously. Just a suggestion.

 

Okay, I'm done. It's time for a SIESTA :excl:

 

See y'all on the Trail.

 

I. M. Crossdraw

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Why such a steep increase, what caused it? Please refer to my posting pinned at the top of the wire page titled "SASS Membership Fees".

Why members not notified before hand so that those thinking of life membership could join prior to the increase? Life members do not contribute to the revenue and viability of the organization. Any organization that has a focus on membership knows that life members, while crucial for start up, are a detriment to long term revenue. (any thought for grandfathering that in for members) No.

Is there a projection for another increase and when will that happen? No. See pinned post.

Will there be an age discount for yearly/3 year/life membership? No. Simplify, simplify, simplify.

Why the charge for clubs for membership? See pinned post, and review the club app to see just what club affiliation includes.

At the current rate of members and number of clubs, how much revenue increase will there be for S.A.S.S.? See pinned post.

Any chance of decreased life membership for those with membership over 10 years, 15 years, 20 years? No.

How long ago was the prior increase for membership? 10 years.

Were any funds embezzled or inappropriate spending found within S.A.S.S.? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

Has there been an audit recently within S.A.S.S. and the findings along with suggestions made by the auditor? Yes

S.A.S.S. checkbook balance been dropping and for how long? Yes- for years.

 

As time passes and reviewing this thread may think of some more. I hope others will just write out their questions. Bickering will never get ya anywhere along with sly comments as some have made.

Thank you

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paid mine last week.....not a big deal.

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I agree; let me clarify, please. The new renewal rate actually doesn't go in to effect for membership renewals until the November renewals...and the renewal notices for November are going out this week, with a thorough explanation of the increase.

Anyone who's membership comes up for renewal through October pay the old rate.

 

Misty

Misty what is going on at the main office?? We just renewed our memberships on 8/20 and where charged the new rate!

We paid $120.00 for myself and spouse. Are we due a refund?? Just answered that question myself at the SASS office and was told that because we didn't tell them we should get the old rate they charged us the new one!!!

 

How in the ()$/;( where we to know that?? When we where told this is how much it will be for your reup what where we supposed to say NO we get the old rate the girl also said the new rate IS in effect now BUT if you say your supposed to get the old rate they will give it to you!!

 

SO anyone that has to renew before NOVEMBER make sure you tell them you get the old rate or you will be charged the new rate!!! Am I going nuts or is this crazy?

 

If your not a new member and your renewal date is before NOVEMBER WHY WOULD YOU NOT BE AUTOMATICALLY CHARGED THE OLD RATE what you didn't say Simon Says!!!!!! Are you kidding me!!!

 

Don't mean to be rude but I am in shock, really this exactly what I was told and yes I got a refund of $40.00 I still can't believe it not to mention the girl was acting like I was the idiot for not telling them I was supposed to get the old rate rather short and snotty to be honest I'm not very happy right now.

 

So in closing I would like to know how we are suppose to know to tell SASS renewal personnel NO WE GET THE OLD RATE WHEN YOUR TOLD WHAT YOU OWE, I guess just saying to them wow that really went up a lot! They come back with yep sorry bout that! How's bout they say oh I see here on my little screen you only owe last yrs rate however just so you know the rates will go up this November, wow really who's running this boat!!!

 

Spades H. Normally an easy going nice guy,but definitely not a mind reader!!

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I paid 65 dollars last week, so the new price not taking place until November is either not true or someone at headquarters didnt get the word.

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This is all a recipie for disaster, you all but double the annual membership fee. Then you ask for $100.00 from clubs that are not at 100% membership. In theory you think your going to generate revenue..... But.

I dont know about it being a RECIPE for disaster; please refer to my pinned post titled "SASS Membership Fees" for a thorough explanation.

Let's say you have less people pay their renewal every year(this is almost a certainty) then you penalize the clubs for not having full membership. The idea of "club membership" is vague in every way, so let's say my club requires you to be a SASS member to be a local club member. It is at this time that you say forget it to both. The" membership " at my club goes down till I'm at 100% SASS membership and I then send you $0.00 in affiliation fee and the folks that shoot with me as guest not members send you $0.00. It is not a penalty. We are offering a service; there are a slew of benefits for the club for affiliating with SASS. You dont have to affiliate and purchase our service. This is simply something that could no longer be offered for free. Please refer to my pinned post for details.

They all still shoot and SASS gets zero money. I am not going to turn people away from my monthly shoot because they didn't send $65.00 to SASS. We would never ask you to turn anyone away. What we are offering is an incentive on club affiliation if all your members are also SASS members.

 

I understand that all this is moot if you want to shoot at state level and above you gotta have a current number, so if you want to loose income from all the folks that shoot two or three monthlies ,24 to 36 shoots a year this is a perfect plan. It sounds a lot like when you tried to sell those big money memberships to the Ranch and nobody bought them. You are mistaken. Founders Club memberships sold out when the property was purchased; and in exchange those members receive perks and benefits at Founders Ranch. Their involvement and investment in Founders Ranch was a direct reflection of their confidence in SASS and the future of our sport. As a matter of fact, I could sell more every year if we hadn't closed that option some years ago.

 

If you need to do this because you need the revenue then you need to decrease your overhead

Please refer to my pinned post. This isn't about profitability, it is about sustainability. "Decrease your overhead" is an easy phrase to throw around when you don't have the details.

 

Misty Moonshine

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A lot of folks on this thread are saying “IT is just $20”… “IT is worth it”. When we look at the big picture, IT isn’t just $20. Last I heard, SASS had somewhere between 30,000-35,000 members. Let’s say just 20,000 are annual-renewal members. At the current rate of $65 a year x 20,000, that’s $1.3 MILLION DOLLARS (you don’t need to take my word for it, just grab a calculator) Now, add on to that the per-shooter fees SASS demands from State-level and above matches, and the additional money SASS is demanding from clubs to pay for affiliation… For the average shooter who doesn’t attend state-level and above SASS Sanctioned shoots, and doesn't care about the electronic Chronicle, that’s a helluva lot of money just to have a website with an affiliated clubs list, a shooter-alias database, annual rules updates, and the SASS wire (where moderators are said to work for free).

 

Something else to keep in mind… when you go to a monthly match at your home club, take a look around and ask yourself “what does SASS actually own here?” the answer (unless you're standing on Founders Ranch) will most often be... absolutely nothing. SASS doesn’t own the range, doesn’t pay the range usage fees, doesn’t own the targets, facades, timers, etc. SASS doesn’t own or maintain the home club’s website. SASS doesn’t employ the Match Director, Range Master, or anyone else providing the opportunity. All of these things have come from the blood, sweat, donations, match entry fees and volunteer work of past and present shooters. But what about the format?... The rules?... Would we know what to do without them? We have the current copies of the rules already. Those too were provided by the input of past and present shooters. Bottom line, if the SASS corporation dissolved at midnight on a Friday, shooters would still show up at local matches Saturday morning, participate, and enjoy the camaraderie like they always have, scores would still be tabulated and posted to the club’s website or ACES as they always have, and until someone found the SASS website/wire to be missing, it’s doubtful anyone would know the difference. CAS shoots might not be able to be called "State", "National" or "World Championships" anymore, but local CAS monthly matches and annuals could go on indefinitely without a hitch. And, even if there weren't a dedicated website to list all affiliated clubs, links to other clubs in the area could be provided on each others websites to promote the sport in the given area.

 

I gotta go... I'm about to get banned again.

 

Maker (the guy who Allie Mo banned over the weekend)

If you truley believe what you post, why don't you post under your SASS alias, if you really are a "guest" you don't have a dog in this fight.

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And what do I get that is worth $65 a year?

If you don't go to a State and above matches....

 

You get your alias,,,,w/o the words "The Original" in front of it. :D

 

You get to come on the Wire and be entertained.

 

You still can shoot the practice shoot at your club.

 

That's what you get.

 

And all this time, I thought everyone except me, went and spent weeks and $$$ at EOT, WR, BT and all the State & Regional Matches.

 

Edit: As far as an increase... to be expected from time to time. Inflow cash must be greater than outflow of cash. Decrease or slow down of new members and/or decrease in cash inflow from major matches has an impact. Legal fees have a drain too. Life Members are free riders now, done got their money. Cost to do business never really decreases but more likely increases year to year. SOOOOOO, up the annual membership fees and squeeze the clubs is a viable method to boost the cash income.

 

Now, each member has to belly up and decide if the fun factor of being a member of SASS is worth it.

 

 

BTW, I just upped up for another year.

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If you don't go to a State and above matches....

 

You get your alias,,,,w/o the words "The Original" in front of it. :D

 

You get to come on the Wire and be entertained.

 

You still can shoot the practice shoot at your club.

 

That's what you get.

 

And all this time, I thought everyone except me, went and spent weeks and $$$ at EOT, WR, BT and all the State & Regional Matches.

 

Edit: As far as an increase... to be expected from time to time. Inflow cash must be greater than outflow of cash. Decrease or slow down of new members and/or decrease in cash inflow from major matches has an impact. Legal fees have a drain too. Life Members are free riders now, done got their money. Cost to do business never really decreases but more likely increases year to year. SOOOOOO, up the annual membership fees and squeeze the clubs is a viable method to boost the cash income.

 

Now, each member has to belly up and decide if the fun factor of being a member of SASS is worth it.

 

 

BTW, I just upped up for another year.

All of which I can do without paying $65

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When I renewed after the first year I beleive I went to the life membership because I knew I was hooked. You can rationalize the spending elsewhere great some can't. So live month to month and barely then. Myself went thru some hard years early one while trying to equipe myself with the guns I'm wanted the shoots I wanted to attend. I made them by cutting expenses elsewhere. I do not regret it. Now things are mostly paid for and my health isn't what I wished but I knew things were going to get worst that's why it was important for me to be active then. Yes things are more expensive and I agree sass needs a payment plan for the life membership at the rate it is now. But except for gas, most things are more than they were ten years ago. Gas went through the the roof a few years back and businesses started charging fees to compensate for it but they haven't dropped those fees now that fuel is what it is but no one is complaining about that but their favorite activity raises its annual dues and it's a crime. I feel my membership is paid as if will have ten years iirc in January as a life member and thing of increasing my membership status to the next level the next time they offer a deal on it or I'm in the right place at the right time. Several years I've given to the scholarship fund and received the simulated targets. I'm waiting for the next target. So I might move up to the next level. I check at EOT if any founder ranch memberships were available because when they initially were offered I didn't have the way to pay for them now I can so I checked. As I like shooting at the ranch its a good three and half to four and half hours depending on if I need to go to Albuquerque or not. No sass is not perfect but nothing touched by man is. If I was sass I would have built some cabins and rooms for shooter so sleep in for the matches. But they have dropped two of the annual matches at the ranch because of turn out. But they kept moving the dates so some had no way to forecast their time off. But I feel if they go six weeks on each side of EOT every year they would be golden after awhile. Now that they found out what the shooters want for a match.

 

If you can afford it and want to you'll make the payment if you can't it will be your loss at some time. I guess because I do like shooting annual matches because to shoot a monthly match is a hour and half for the closest matches up in Ruidoso or in Las Cruces. I haven't made either not because of the cost but because of the weather and or my health.

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I have seen many families taking part in this as a whole the past couple of years more than ever. I think some kind of household / family discount should be considered, a little more than what is being offered right now....

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I have seen many families taking part in this as a whole the past couple of years more than ever. I think some kind of household / family discount should be considered, a little more than what is being offered right now....

 

+100000000000000

 

 

I'll grumble but will renew my membership in October. My son(11) already shoots with me and I'll renew him in March. I was going to sign my wife up either this October or next March; probably still will but it is something to consider as I don't think she'll be shooting an annuals/state for a good while.

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I have seen many families taking part in this as a whole the past couple of years more than ever. I think some kind of household / family discount should be considered, a little more than what is being offered right now....

+1. A 44% increase while not easy to swallow is a whole lot easier than the 120% increase I am being hit with.

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Retirement is expensive ... This is not like USPSA, IDPA, ICORE etc ... where you vote for board members and/or officers ... have a classification system or anything like that. You are paying the living expenses of a permanent group of people (the owners).

 

I paid my USPSA already this year (40 big ones) ... and ICORE (25 big ones) ... two local club memberships (one 75 and one 90 ... but you can shoot anytime you want ... set up your own scenarios ... run around ... bring anyone you want with you ... etc).

 

I expire tomorrow 8/26 ... geese ... let me think (I'll wait for the "we are family" letter) ... there is just so much stuff local ... support your local clubs and have fun.

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I am just getting started in in cowboy action shooting. Accumulating the 4 required guns, reloading equipment, and observing some of the local matches. Over the past weekend my wife was trying to help me select an alias.

 

When I started researching SASS a few months ago, I was surprised that there was no print magazine associated with the membership, since the dues I felt were high enough to cover the cost of a printed magazine. I was not aware, until I read Misty's post today that the printed magazine had been discontinued. Like several others here have commented - my question was "What do I actually get for $55?" I still like printed magazines and subscribe to a number of them - but no print magazine, no need join to shoot locally, basically my analysis was I get an alias. However, I still planned to join - if nothing other than to get an alias and support the game.

 

After reading Misty's post I understand that the increase was probably long over due; the dues probably should have been raised a few dollars years ago. However, having a business degree and experience in business I have two issues:

 

1.) I strongly believe the membership increase should have been communicated to the membership in advance. With an official communication explaining the facts (what Misty's post explained) and setting a date in the future that the increase would take place. For example, all new memberships and renewals will increase $20 on October 1, 2015. Would folks have been happy - probably not. But I would be willing to wager, that advance notice explaining the need for the increase and establishing an effective date, would have made the increase a whole lot less painful. I appreciate Misty explaining the situation today, however, I strongly believe this should have been done prior to the increase. Hopefully, the organization learns from this mistake and does not repeat it in the future.

 

2.) As a numbers guy, I hope that someone at SASS did a financial analysis based on some factual information (study, market research, etc); that the $20 increase will actually increase revenue. I suspect there will be a significant number of folks that will not join ($75) or renew ($65). What the number will be I have no idea - hopefully the SASS organization has done that analysis and concluded that the number of folks not joining or renewing is small - thus the $20 increase will actually increase revenues as planned.

 

Will I still join? Yes. However, with the end of the shooting season coming I may wait till next year. While I was looking forward to settling on an alias I don't know that I am $75 excited. I may also wait to see if the print magazine makes a comeback. However, I wonder how difficult it will be to re-launch the magazine. Will the advertisers comeback? Or have they found a different way (cheaper/more effective) to reach their customer? In our business prefer not to give our customers a reason to look elsewhere, since if they do we might not get them back. By discontinuing the printed magazine SASS forced the advertisers to look elsewhere - will the advertisers now see value in coming back? I am guessing some will not. I might depend in part on the circulation - which might be less due to the dues increase. Just saying!

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I agree that the explanation should have came out FIRST. Instead of waiting until the fire hit.

BUT.

It's coming.

And agree that clubs should have been paying affiliation fees all along. Just like State and above

should have been paying per shooter all along. (which they started last year or year before.)

SO have NO problem with that at all.

And the increase is not bad for just me. Or me and the wife.

 

But as Dewey pointed out. When you have a whole family? It's a LOT bigger hit.

Add that in. And then joining the local club or clubs.

And membership fees for SASS and SASS clubs can run way into the hundred every year.

 

I just feel sorry for those that only get to shoot a few matches. And have a family.

Can see some of those just having to skip it. As shooting that one State match a year

might not be worth it for them.

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All of which I can do without paying $65

You are a "Guest"...you don't do anything to support the very company that publishes and runs the "Wire"...yet you come on this forum and put SASS down constantly.

 

Are you proud of yourself?

 

And Bad Hand, Gunfighter Ghost is Maker Wright I believe...looks like he got banned and is playing more silly games...

 

Phantom

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The new renewal rate actually doesn't go in to effect for membership renewals until the November renewals...and the renewal notices for November are going out this week, with a thorough explanation of the increase. Anyone who's membership comes up for renewal through October pay the old rate.

 

 

Just my luck, my membership expires November 2nd.

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You are a "Guest"...you don't do anything to support the very company that publishes and runs the "Wire"...yet you come on this forum and put SASS down constantly.

 

Are you proud of yourself?

 

And Bad Hand, Gunfighter Ghost is Maker Wright I believe...looks like he got banned and is playing more silly games...

 

Phantom

Just asking what I get for $65 and the answer is pretty much zero

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Misty,

I just renewed via telephone for myself, wife and son on 8/19. I went back and checked and sure enough I was charged the higher rates. Also, per your post I have sent you an email listing details so a refund can be processed.

Thanks,

PT

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Phantom

 

PS: One my not drink beer...nor eat McDonald's hamburgers...but I'm sure they frivolously spend $20/year on other non-essentials that they could easily cut back on...to make up that whole 20 bucks.

But, I think the Question is: Why that large of an increase and how is it to be used?

 

Just saying you need an increase does not justify an increase. We need to see some numbers and have a voice in these Taxing Decisions.

 

Is this the Taxation without Representation I read about in school?

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How many shooters over the years have signed up, paid their money for a year or maybe two, and then after getting their badge don't renew anymore? Of course, to go to the bigger matches membership has been required

 

Maybe it's time to allow shooters to shoot a half dozen matches and after that require SASS membership for all SASS affiliated matches, including monthlies. Then you'll know where the sport really stands and how many people will do their part to support it. Smoking Gator

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But, I think the Question is: Why that large of an increase and how is it to be used?

 

Just saying you need an increase does not justify an increase. We need to see some numbers and have a voice in these Taxing Decisions.

 

Is this the Taxation without Representation I read about in school?

I don't think Misty or SASS needs to justify to all 30k+ member why they need $XX dollar per member increase and then have to justify each and every reason. SASS has put their thinking caps on, sharpened their pencils and have make their decision on what is best for their business. I suspect they didn't even realize that it was a 44% increase, but was thinking more in $5 increment increases until they got the income they thought they needed,,,, or that is what I would do.

 

It is up to the customers (you's & me's) to personally decide if each is getting the value each thinks they need from their $$ expenditure.

 

As been mentioned, do you want SASS/game to continue or not? Would it hurt your feeling if your local SASS Club went away or stayed? How long would your Club exist without the Parent Organization? If it (SASS) went away, then what would you do for entertainment to replace the void? Cowboy guns are not hot items to sell other than for this sport.

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