.38 special

[Don Jorge]

Which powders are commonly used with a 158 gr.  bullet for .38 special?  What velocities are desired with that bullet (for use in SASS, of course)?

[Texas Red]

Howdy Don,

Hope this helps from Hodgdon website and Cowboy loads...https://hodgdonpowderco.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/cowboy-action1-1.pdf

TR

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

There are probably a couple dozen pistol and shotgun powders that you can load 38 Specials for CAS.  Most are currently unavailable.  You can probably buy TightGroup, HP-38, Bullseye and Red Dot online now.  Pick a powder and we can recommend loads.

[Don Jorge]

To be more precise, I was wondering what current SASS Members were using for .38 special using a 158 gr. bullet.  I have the reloading books.  I desired to know what was being used.

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

Current SASS members are not using 158s.  They are using 125 grains and even lighter.

[Dream Chaser, SASS #79316]

I would say most of us use 105, 125, or 130 for 38 special although a few may use 158 and hopefully they will speak up.  You mentioned velocities and for my 38 special with 105 for pistols I like 620 to 650.  I am an older female with simi-weak wrist and do not want a lot of recoil.  

Edited June 19 by Dream Chaser, SASS #79316

[Sam Sackett]

I mostly use 3 grains of Bullseye for either 125 or 158 bullets. There are many powders that will work for 38 Special for SASS shooting. Look at a burn rate chart and see where Bullseye is listed. You can use powders several lines above and below Bullseye. I have used Titewad, Clays, Red Dot, Win 231 (HP-38 is same powder,  just different packaging), and a couple others. 
If you compare our loads with the book loads in most any powder, you will see that we are at the bottom or below the recommended loading range for each powder. You should probably start at the lowest recommended powder listing in the book. After you have shot a few matches, talk to the local shooters and see what they are using. 
 

Bottom line, follow the book until you gain a bit of experience. If you load too light, you run the risk of sticking a bullet in the barrel. If that happens and you don’t  realize it, your next shot will not be pleasant. 
 

I have never noticed much difference in recoil between 125 and 158 bullets. Just load whatever you can come up with and that will reliable feed in your rifle. I shoot a Rossi 92 and it only cares about overall length. If I feed round nose flat point or taper cone bullets at 1.545” OAL, it’s happy. 
 

Hope this helps. 
Sam Sackett 

Edited June 16 by Sam Sackett

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

3 hours ago, Don Jorge said:

To be more precise, I was wondering what current SASS Members were using for .38 special using a 158 gr. bullet.  I have the reloading books.  I desired to know what was being used.

I use Triple Seven, a black powder sub.  I do not recommend it for new CAS reloaders.  I have used both Bullseye and HP-38.  Both worked well.

Edited June 16 by Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971
Typo

[Sedalia Dave]

Was in Cabelas and Scheels today.  Saw lots of pistol powders. Multiple 1 and 8 pound jugs of HP-38 and TightGroup.

 

Sheels had plenty of primers, most were $79.99 per 1K. No limit. Federals were $99.99 a brick.   Prices at Cabela's  were about $20.00 a thousand higher than Scheels.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Unique or WW231/HP38(same powder).

[Eyesa Horg]

Ellie is using 125gr TC coated bullets over 2.8gr of Clays. Work great for her and takes down the knock downs. Minimal unburnt powder.

[Assassin]

Clays, Titegroup, Promo, most shotgun powders with a fast burn rate work well for light 38's.

[Cypress Sun]

14 hours ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

Current SASS members are not using 158s.  They are using 125 grains and even lighter.

 

Some still do, myself included. I use them in the rifle w/3.2 gr. of Alliant Bullseye and a slightly long seated 158 gr. RNFP bullet. Pistol is 2.9 gr of Alliant American Select with a 122 gr FP bullet. I use a taper crimp for both.

I am also a current SASS member.

[Texas Jack Black]

17 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Unique or WW231/HP38(same powder).

 Plenty of other powders Cabelas had tubs of HP38  Titegroup and WW231 last week.

Another not rocket science thread.

[Texas Maverick]

I use 3.5 grains of CleanShot that you can get from @Scarlett with a 125 grain bullet that I get from Bullet Boss (which used to be Cimarron Bullets).

 

TM

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

Aw Heck.  NONE OF THE ABOVE    I run 11Gr of 3F APP with 125Gr Bullets.  Except for my .36 conversions.  There I run 11Gr of 3F APP with 148Gr Wadcutters for a .375 bore.  Mucho FUNNER!!

[McCandless]

21 hours ago, Don Jorge said:

Which powders are commonly used with a 158 gr.  bullet for .38 special?  What velocities are desired with that bullet (for use in SASS, of course)?

 

I shot up a bunch of 158gr, just for grins, on Saturday.  3.0gr Clays and 158gr handled our knockdown targets without a problem.  Mild to moderate recoil with Ruger New Vaqueros.   I used the same load with 125gr. bullets, same result.

With Red Dot, 3.2 - 3.4gr seems to be exactly equal to the Clays loads.

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

To summarize, MOST shooters who are trying to be competitive will use lighter bullets.  Some will carry some separate loads with heavier bullets just for knockdown stages, some carry separate loads with their same bullet but more powder for knockdown loads, and some (like me) do not have any problem with their regular loads and knockdowns (125gr bullet with 3.2 gr of various powders).

[Tracker Jack Daniels,58780]

20 hours ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

Current SASS members are not using 158s.  They are using 125 grains and even lighter.

Those of us who have fussy '92s still use 158. My '92s will pitch a fit over anything else. For rifles I use a 158 over 3.4 grains of Titegroup seated for COL of 1.586, for our revolvers I use a 105 over the same 3.4 grains of Titegroup. Neither my wife or I have any problems with correctly set knockdowns. 

Edited June 16 by Tracker Jack Daniels,58780

[Rough 'N Ready Rob]

Don,

   I use 700X in my 38 special. loads, 3.5 gr with 125 gr. 3 gr, with 158 gr. I use these in both pistol and rifles, never had a problem with knock downs.

I use 700X in all my other loads both 45s and my 38-55 cowboy loads.

  I bought abunce of 700X some time back, will probably have enought to last my cowboy shooting days.

Only bad thing I can say is it shoot a little dirty.

  Rob 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

32 minutes ago, Rough 'N Ready Rob said:

Don,

   I use 700X in my 38 special. loads, 3.5 gr with 125 gr. 3 gr, with 158 gr. I use these in both pistol and rifles, never had a problem with knock downs.

I use 700X in all my other loads both 45s and my 38-55 cowboy loads.

  I bought abunce of 700X some time back, will probably have enought to last my cowboy shooting days.

Only bad thing I can say is it shoot a little dirty.

  Rob 

It's a great SG powder.

[El Chapo]

I'm using Ramshot Competition right now.  Before that I used Clays.  I have some Titewad too but I haven't loaded it in .38 cases yet.  I have tried both 105 and 125 grain bullets and settled on 105.  I have a mold for 158s but I don't really see the need to shoot a heavier bullet for what we're doing.

[Max Payne]

I use 158's for hot loads when I have Knockdowns. If I get within about 10 inches of the KD, the wind will knock them down. Otherwise, it's 105's for me with 2.7 grns of TiteGroup.

[Rough 'N Ready Rob]

3 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

It's a great SG powder.

That too.

[Scarlett]

On 6/15/2024 at 5:32 PM, Don Jorge said:

To be more precise, I was wondering what current SASS Members were using for .38 special using a 158 gr. bullet.  I have the reloading books.  I desired to know what was being used.

My customers are using Clean Shot (I’ll have more in October), Tite Group (High Gun - identical to Tite Group), Red Dot.  It appears (from what my distributors have available) that Tite Group/High Gun are most available. Hogdon’s data is too hot for cowboy. I might start at 3.5gr. 
 

Nice seeing you in Wisconsin and Indiana. 
 

Hugs!

Scarlett

[Rye Miles #13621]

3.6 TiteGroup with a 125 gr bullet !! 

[Hoss]

3.0 Bullseye. I’ve used it from 105-158

[Jackson Haller]

I use Titegroup with 158 grain 38 specials.

[Trouble on the Rhein]

Any thoughts on HS-6? Or should I attempt to find another powder for .38? 

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

23 minutes ago, Trouble on the Rhein said:

Any thoughts on HS-6? Or should I attempt to find another powder for .38? 

A faster powder would be better for light 38's.

[Silver Creek Jack]

3.5 gr. N320 and a 105 gr. Coated Missouri or Bad Man bullet in both .38 Sp. rifle and pistols.

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

To answer the OP, I use 3.5 grains of TiteGroup behind a 157gr bullet for my '73 and my '92.

[Trouble on the Rhein]

12 hours ago, Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 said:

A faster powder would be better for light 38's.

Would it be fine with a 158gr you think? I work at a fleet farm, so both of those I'd get a 20% discount on, figured I'd ask around kinda get an idea of what people think is acceptable 

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

5 hours ago, Trouble on the Rhein said:

Would it be fine with a 158gr you think? I work at a fleet farm, so both of those I'd get a 20% discount on, figured I'd ask around kinda get an idea of what people think is acceptable 

Looking at the recommended load data, I'd say you could certainly try it.  I think I'd start off with 5.0gr and see how it does.  If that isn't consistent, go up a couple of tenths at a time until it is.

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

6 hours ago, Trouble on the Rhein said:

Would it be fine with a 158gr you think? I work at a fleet farm, so both of those I'd get a 20% discount on, figured I'd ask around kinda get an idea of what people think is acceptable 

Don't buy more than a 1-lb container as it is unlikely to perform as you hope.  However, it would make good long range, pistol caliber rifle rounds for side matches.

 

You can still buy 8-lb jugs of pistol powders proven to load suitable ammo for CAS.  With world events continuing to deteriorate I'd buy soon as powder may disappear as wars heat up.