Warming up your car

[Rye Miles #13621]

So what’s the consensus? So called experts say you can damage your engine by starting it and letting it warm up when it’s cold ir cooling it off in hot weather. I have remote start so if it’s really cold I’ll start it from in the house for about 10 minutes. What say you???

[Charlie Harley, #14153]

Starting the car and idling it are what the machine is designed to do. No harm there as long as the driver accounts for the exhaust fumes.  Had an acquaintance who remote started her car not knowing her husband had parked it in the garage. Lots of stinkiness but nobody was hurt. Could have been much worse. 

[John Kloehr]

I'm in the minute or so camp for start before drive.

 

But assuming 10 minutes idle before driving, 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year. This comes out to about 40 extra hours of idling a year. 400 extra hours in 10 years.

 

My former police car (lots of excess idling) has 2,877 idle hours:

 

 

Probably not going to do a lot of damage.

Edited January 7 by John Kloehr

[Cypress Sun]

 

If you are talking about warming up the engine or heating/cooling the driver's compartment, I don't think that it would hurt the engine or components. I know that the vehicle should be at operating temperature before getting heavy on the gas pedal or towing a heavy load.

 

When I had a car with a supercharger, I was told that the engine should always be at operating temperature before driving/heavy acceleration. I always tried to get that car warm before driving. I've heard that vehicles with turbos should be treated the same, operating temperature first before heavy acceleration. I don't know if any of that advice was true but it didn't hurt anything to abide by it.

[Rye Miles #13621]

29 minutes ago, John Kloehr said:

But assuming 10 minutes idle before driving, 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year. This comes out to about 40 extra hours of idling a year. 400 extra hours in 10 years.

No I'm talking about only when it's really cold like 20 or lower or extremely hot like 90+

[Warden Callaway]

One of the luxuries of our Ford Edge is that it has remote start.  And climate control.   Nice on cold or hot days as it sets outside. Has heated seats and wheel as well. 

[Pat Riot]

A lot of the propaganda about “idling” one’s car is from the environmentalists. 
“Idling is bad for the environment”

”Idling contributes to global warming”

 

Now, fuel injected computer controlled car do not need to idle to keep them running, BUT the oil is still old and sluggish in the engine. Sure, the fuel system doesn’t need a warm up, but your oil does. In cold weather, starting and revving the engine is bad. I am not talking about gunning the engine. I mean starting it cold and driving in really cold temps. 
 

I don’t care what the whack job weinies say. I will warm up my engine to get the oil flowing properly. 

If it’s flippin’ hot outside, I will start my car to cool the passenger compartment. 
When the enviro-Nazis start paying my bills then I will take their advice on my automobiles. 
 

Here’s an interesting tidbit of information. 
Bus Transit Agencies are now penalized for “Idling” their engines. Idling is limited to just a few minutes a day when prepping the fleet for roll out. 
Federal and state agencies are very pleased with themselves over the “environmental milestone” of reducing emissions. The problem is the transit agency’s diesel and gasoline powered fleets need engines overhauled sooner. But, it “only maintenance” so that doesn’t count. 
Maintainers are taking hits in their budgets due to premature engine overhauls and or replacement, but the people in charge that like the glory of their enviro-accomplishments so they treat the maintenance dept like dirt wanting to know whose heads need to roll for improper maintenance of the fleets. 
 

Wow! My BP just spiked. Another reason I am glad I retired early. 

[Texas Joker]

Ok @Pat Riot as devils advocate what does the first number is the oils viscosity mean? For instance 0w20.

 

i thought it meant cold viscosity so a 0 means no viscosity and flows like water cold then as it warms up it takes on 20 weight properties.

 

So from a cold start your oil is already flowing.

[JD Lud]

No matter the weight of the oil, big difference between minimal flow and full lubricity.  
 

Easiest way I have been exposed is helicopters in cold weather.  Watch the oil pressure gauge at start up or a minute after compared to a couple minutes later….massive drop in pressure as it warms up.

[Blackwater 53393]

I don’t have any opinion on a car/truck/tractor idling after cold start, but I can tell you for certain, from past experience, don’t start a motorcycle up cold and walk away!

 

Having disassembled many motorcycles, I have found that those that have been started and left to idle on the kickstand are easily identifiable.  They always have excessive wear on the thrust side of the crankshaft and thrust bearings on the side that the bike leaned to when on the stand!

 

I have always started my bikes sitting straddle of them and holding the bike straight up.  If it’s going onto the kickstand, I shut it off first.

 

An old biker told me about this when I first started riding. I took it to heart, but after all these years, I can honestly say that I have seen it many times and know that it is true.

[Pat Riot]

42 minutes ago, Texas Joker said:

Ok @Pat Riot as devils advocate what does the first number is the oils viscosity mean? For instance 0w20.

 

i thought it meant cold viscosity so a 0 means no viscosity and flows like water cold then as it warms up it takes on 20 weight properties.

 

So from a cold start your oil is already flowing.

Ok. You do it your way. I’ll do it mine. 

Edited January 7 by Pat Riot

[Warden Callaway]

Not so much any more but use to get behind an old codgers that would drive say five miles an hour hour for several miles. Then pick up to 15 for a while.  Then eventually gradualy get up to speed. I assumed it was to let the engine warm up. 

[Pat Riot]

2 minutes ago, Warden Callaway said:

Not so much any more but use to get behind an old codgers that would drive say five miles an hour hour for several miles. Then pick up to 15 for a while.  Then eventually gradualy get up to speed. I assumed it was to let the engine warm up. 

That’s because their doctor stopped their caffeine intake. They need time to wake up and get going.  

[Rye Miles #13621]

17 minutes ago, Warden Callaway said:

Not so much any more but use to get behind an old codgers that would drive say five miles an hour hour for several miles. Then pick up to 15 for a while.  Then eventually gradualy get up to speed. I assumed it was to let the engine warm up. 

Did they have their blinker on??

[Oak Ridge Regulator]

Nothing runs good cold, start your truck up at 20 degrees and jump right in and go gives nothing a chance to get well lubricated, your windows won’t defrost for miles, your steering wheel will be cold and slippery. Power steering pumps still working hard. Battery took a serious discharge turning the engine over so the alternator is really working hard to power the vehicle and charge the battery. Belts are cold and stiff and your butt ain’t going to like that seat either ! At least that’s what more than 50 years of driving vehicles in VT winters has shown me YMMV

[Cypress Sun]

22 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Did they have their blinker on??

 

Only the left turn signal...in the fast lane...on Interstate...in Florida...while driving 54 mph...20 miles before the right-hand exit.

[Warden Callaway]

1 hour ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Did they have their blinker on??

I've learned to grumble and curse cars approaching intersections.  They may have their signal on but not turn. Or no signal and turn.  You never know. Trailers pulled by pickup trucks seldom have lights that work.  

 

Annoying thing about our Edge. The engine shuts off if stopped for a few seconds.  It has a switch to turn this feature off but you have to set it every time. Also, we use none of the features of the on board display.  Every time we start up we have to navigate through 3 screens to turn it to calm screen. Still tells time and temperature.  We can live with that. After almost two years, I still reach in my pocket for keys. Just has a fob. No shifting lever - just a knob you twist.  Drives us nuts with messages. "You look tired. Suggest you stop for some coffee." 

[Eyesa Horg]

1 hour ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

I don’t have any opinion on a car/truck/tractor idling after cold start, but I can tell you for certain, from past experience, don’t start a motorcycle up cold and walk away!

 

Having disassembled many motorcycles, I have found that those that have been started and left to idle on the kickstand are easily identifiable.  They always have excessive wear on the thrust side of the crankshaft and thrust bearings on the side that the bike leaned to when on the stand!

 

I have always started my bikes sitting straddle of them and holding the bike straight up.  If it’s going onto the kickstand, I shut it off first.

 

An old biker told me about this when I first started riding. I took it to heart, but after all these years, I can honestly say that I have seen it many times and know that it is true.

+1

[Rip Snorter]

I plug my ancient truck's block heater in when it is cold.  Starts right up, but if I don't let it sit for a few minutes it takes a few miles to run properly.  Taken care of but 44 years old.

[Eyesa Horg]

The manual for my 21 GMC says to start and go, which I pretty much do. Although when it's real cold, I use the remote start and let it warm while I put my boots and coat on. If the oil pressure is real, there isn't but a few pounds difference from cold to warm. Unlike my old Ford, it doesn't feel any different on a cold start to drive. I'm actually more concerned with how often the starter is engaged when driving in a city and stop and go traffic. Always wonder when is the last time for those brushes!!

[Springfield Slim SASS #24733]

I start my engines and then let them idle for at least 2 minutes, then drive a bit more careful for the first mile or so. Cars and especially motorcycles. May have helped get that 285,000 out of my Ford Ranger before I needed a new headgasket, and have 180,000 on my air cooled BMW motorcycle and it still reads good compression and is on the original clutch, in spite of having a sidecar on it for most of that time. It's not just about oil; flow. it's also about parts heating up and closing up some clearances so that the parts fit better and don't wear as fast. I know my '82 MB Diesel doesn't like to shift as well when it is cold, tranny's have oil too.

[Muleshoe Bill SASS #67022]

3 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

No I'm talking about only when it's really cold like 20 or lower or extremely hot like 90+

90 degrees is not extremely hot (at least around these parts).  We see in the summer daily temperatures well over 105 most of the summer. If one considers that the way National Weather Service air temps are measured - in the shade 5 -6 feet off the ground over grass, not as we have here over concrete and in direct sun - most of this last summer the air temp over the driveway was 110 to 135 during the day.

With that said- the engine oil is already warm enough to flow well. Our big issue is cooling the engine fluids. Summer here my oil runs about 15 degrees warmer than winter (50 degrees) at least according to Borg Warner.

[Texas Maverick]

3 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Did they have their blinker on??

No, it was out of fluid.

 

TM

[sassnetguy50]

3 hours ago, Warden Callaway said:

I've learned to grumble and curse cars approaching intersections.  They may have their signal on but not turn. Or no signal and turn.  You never know. Trailers pulled by pickup trucks seldom have lights that work.  

 

Annoying thing about our Edge. The engine shuts off if stopped for a few seconds.  It has a switch to turn this feature off but you have to set it every time. Also, we use none of the features of the on board display.  Every time we start up we have to navigate through 3 screens to turn it to calm screen. Still tells time and temperature.  We can live with that. After almost two years, I still reach in my pocket for keys. Just has a fob. No shifting lever - just a knob you twist.  Drives us nuts with messages. "You look tired. Suggest you stop for some coffee." 

 

There are many aftermarket plug n play devices that will remember the setting for you, essentially permanently shutting off the auto stop if you wish.  Search auto stop start eliminator or auto start stop delete.

Example:

https://www.autostopeliminator.com/collections/ford/products/2019-ford-edge-autostop-eliminator

 

 

 

[Pb Mark]

It's all opinion but with synthetic oil, I use a little bit of warm up, then put the car in gear and warm up the auto transmission for about a minute before driving in cold weather.  Warming up a transmission can't hurt.  No clue about those CVT's.  

 

Going to research the start-stop eliminators.  Like the idea.

 

On at least a Grand Cherokee, there is a simple way to get around the start-stop.  That little battery under the seat, has a plug-in wire that senses the voltage of the start-stop battery for safety reasons.  Just unplug it.  Gives a dash warning, but no detectable computer error.  Never need to buy a start-stop battery again.

 

Back to the football games.  Gotta see who the Refs are going to root for today.  

 

[sassnetguy50]

4 hours ago, Texas Joker said:

Ok @Pat Riot as devils advocate what does the first number is the oils viscosity mean? For instance 0w20.

 

i thought it meant cold viscosity so a 0 means no viscosity and flows like water cold then as it warms up it takes on 20 weight properties.

 

So from a cold start your oil is already flowing.

The first number in multigrade oil is a flow rating, essentially a pumpability rating.  It does not mean zero weight oil that pumps easier than 200° water, it means 0W(inter not weight) pumps easier than 5W which pumps easier than 10W... at the same temperature.  Do not try to compare it to the second number, viscosity at operating temperature.  Try a simple experiment, put a quart of oil in your freezer, then dump it into a cup, then warm it up and pour it back into the quart, see how water like it is.  Do a practical experiment, cold start your engine in the dead of winter with the valve cover off and time how long it takes to get oil (this shows flow not lubricity), then do the same in the heat of summer.

 

In simplest form, you can change the first number but not your second number for each specific engine.

[Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life]

There is a difference between diesel and gas engines, especially in cold weather. I have a Ford diesel (my 4th one since 1983) and it has a block heater that also heats the fuel system when it is plugged in. It also has remote starting from my key fob. In the winter I always plug it in and remotely start it before I am ready to go. The cab heater/defroster also automatically goes on when the remote start is used. 

I don't remote start my car hardly at all except during the winter. It also has the same feature as the truck, remotely starting the heater defroster. 

 

No warnings in either owners manuals about idling. I remember my Dad idling his 50 Chevy in the winter to warm it up too.

[Rye Miles #13621]

I did notice today that when I got in my car, after it was parked outside at the mall in 34 degrees, it seemed to warmup faster as I was driving. It took less than 5 minutes. When I remote start it after 10 minutes it’s still not that warm. 

[watab kid]

i know nothing of the modern car my newest is an 05 - my wifes in newer but i dont deal with it , my last three went well over 250k and this one is approaching that , i had remote starters in the last three and used them all winter to heat them up  and some in the summer when i wanted it cool , i dpont think there is a good reason not to based on my experience , but everyone's millage is different , ill keep using mine till the wheels fall off , 

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

Simple answer. 

Bu11 $#it !

Just Sayin. 

Rooster 

[Pat Riot]

20 hours ago, Springfield Slim SASS #24733 said:

180,000 on my air cooled BMW motorcycle and it still reads good compression and is on the original clutch, in spite of having a sidecar on it for most of that time

I do the same. I warm up my bike regardless of winter or summer. I have 50K on my Kawasaki Versys. Before I left California I had a race shop do a complete assessment and rebuild of my brakes, fuel system, suspension and other work. They called me for permission to test ride it. 
After the test ride a guy called me to tell me that he has ridden a number of new Kawasakis and my bike ran like a brand new one. I was happy to hear this as I can be pretty hard on bikes. It had 47,500 miles at the time. 

[BLACKFOOT SASS #11947]

If warming the engine a bit before driving would damage it there would be cautions in the manual.  Of course none of us read the manual, we know how to work a car.

Blackfoot

[Chantry]

I learned this the hard way, if you choose to let the car run for a while during the winter, don't max out the heater and fan.  Had a windshield crack that way while I was clearing the snow off the car.

[Cypress Sun]

35 minutes ago, Chantry said:

I learned this the hard way, if you choose to let the car run for a while during the winter, don't max out the heater and fan.  Had a windshield crack that way while I was clearing the snow off the car.

 

I was at a Florida State Championship at St. Augustine in January. Came out of the hotel, it was cold and had ice on the windows so I decided to start my 2000 Ford, turn on the defroster, leave the truck running with the key in the ignition, take the key fob/unlock back to the hotel room wait 15 minutes and come back and unlock the door with the key fob.

 

Sounds good, doesn't it. Guess what, the key fob will NOT unlock the door with the engine running. Had a spare (non-chip) key in my wallet but it's in the truck with my cell phone and AAA card. Had a friend call AAA, they came out in about 20 minutes and unlocked to door in 15 seconds with a slim jim. WIthin a month, all of the plastic cruise control buttons on the steering wheel had "dried" out and eventually cracked and fell off.

 

I rarely used cruise control before and can't use it now. The truck was right nice and toasty when I got it unlocked though. Lesson learned.

 

[bgavin]

IMO, far, far more damage comes from the gov't mandated auto-stop at red lights and stop signs.

One can only *assume* the starter motor duty cycle is now vastly higher to account for this wear and tear... but I doubt that.
One can know for certain the oil galleys are NOT at full pressure when the engine stops, then restarts.

Crank and rod bearings are the flat Babbit type, and not roller bearings which are more tolerant of no oil pressure film to ride on.
For me, auto-stop is a deal breaker if it cannot be disabled.

My Dad had a bud who drove big rigs during WW2.
He said they never shut them off for the duration of the war... changed filter and threw in a quart of fresh.
He said they got over a million miles from those rigs, because they never shut down.

If Toyota and the others were smart (are are not), they would engineer an auxiliary electric oil pump to maintain full galley pressure at red light shutdowns.
Dad had one of these in his '65 Econoline van.
It was triggered by the drivers' door switch and brought up pressure.
By the time he was in the driver's seat and hit the key, the galleys were at full pressure.