Price gouging or entrepreneurship

[Tennessee Trapper Tom]

[Pat Riot]

No wonder. “Cheaper than dirt” are a bunch of dirtbags. 

[Sedalia Dave]

I wouldn't buy anything from that outfit if it was the last gun store on earth.

 

[Perro Del Diablo]

Quit doing business with them many moons ago. This good example why.

[Capt. James H. Callahan]

If they're waitin' on me to pay that Hell ain't froze over far as I know.

JHC

[Charlie Harley, #14153]

Free market. 

 

And I’m free to not buy. 

[sassnetguy50]

Price gouging or Capitalism?

 

Both.

[Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619]

I bought a 500 rd box of Herters .22lr at Bass two months ago for $24.99. I bought a 325 rd box there (forget the brand) for $22.99 three weeks ago.

 

It's there. You have to be patient and drop by once or twice a week. I have appreciated that Bass has charged pre-shortage standard retail prices. Of course, they limit quantities. I've kept up supplies of .22lr, .38spl, and .45Colt over the last few months there.

 

Of course, being retired it's easier than for some. And one is calmer about the task if one already has decent supplies on hand.

[G W Wade]

CDNN has ammo auctions.  Federal top gun trap loads were up to $140 per case       Estate 20 ga were $140 to 160 per case.    9mm running .65- 85 cents each by the 1000's       And the bidding is still going       GW

[Michigan Slim]

I have seen a lot of auctions ending on Gunbroker with no bidders. 

[Rye Miles #13621]

Looks like it’s time for Cheaper than Dirt to change its name! 
Cheaper than no one??

[Kid Rich]

Have you looked at the price of dirt (property) in some locales lately? The influx from PRK has driven the price of homes thru the roof here.

 22 ammo is not that bad at the LGS here 50 rnd box for $3.29 + tax.

kR

[Rye Miles #13621]

In November I paid $125 for 500 rounds of .22 LR Aquila. I've bought a couple boxes of .22 Winchester and a couple boxes of Remingtons at a pawn shop at $10.00 for 50 rounds. That's .20 cents a round. That's too much but 222 rounds for $249.00 is over a buck a round! Who's buying this??

[Matthew Duncan]

Price gouging is when a cowpoke is in the desert dying of thirst and another cowpoke has water but asks first, "how much money do you have?"

 

Entrepreneurship is when a cowpoke dugs a well in the middle of the desert risking that they can make a reasonable living by working long hours and long days.  Even giving water away for free for those that can't pay.

[Buckshot Bob]

3 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Looks like it’s time for Cheaper than Dirt to change its name! 
Cheaper than no one??

Or just dirt .

I know it’s capitalism , and it’s “just business” but there’s plenty of companies out there that are doing far more to earn your business. I’m just surprised they weren’t scalping tp when that was going on  

[LawMan Mark, SASS #57095L]

CTD lost my business after Sandy Hook when all the AR 15 rifles, ammo and magazines on their website disappeared for a few hours, and came back at double and triple the original prices.  I will do without before I buy from them.  

 

It's sad that I used to do a lot of business with them.  They had great customer service when they first opened up, and ran great specials on a regular basis.  

[Captain Bill Burt]

There is no such thing as price gouging, unless you subscribe to the idea that the government has a right to tell people how much they can charge when they're selling their own property.

[Waxahachie Kid #17017 L]

It would be helpful to know what price CTD paid for them, and see what kind of mark up they had.

 

Having said that, I haven't been in their store in many a year. I just did not see any bargains, or worthwhile things on sale there. 

Usually, what they had on sale...I would not have if they gave it away.

 

Right now, especially, if anyone wants my business, they need to put their customer's first, and if they ask a price that I consider obscene, they, perhaps, should also include the price they paid for it, so I may, just may, better understand why I am paying out the kazoo for an item. 

 

I had rather take a beating, and be forced to go to wally-world every day, than to do business with this company, or with dick's "sporting goods" for that matter. So far, I have an excellent memory, and I will remember these prices, and who was doing this sort of thing. 

 

I will wait for the insanity, and the feeding frenzy, to abate, and simply shoot my flintlocks, out in the cow pasture. So far, no one has cornered the market on rocks that produce a spark....not that they probably haven't thought of it.

 

W.K.

 

 

 

[Subdeacon Joe]

I think I bought from CTD once or twice, but that was at least 15 years ago.  After that I was able to find what I was after for much lower cost elsewhere.  Started thinking that they were charging Coastal California "dirt" prices.  

[Jessey Hightower]

Best to just remember the companies that did things like this and spend your money elsewhere. 

[Captain Bill Burt]

3 hours ago, Waxahachie Kid #17017 L said:

It would be helpful to know what price CTD paid for them, and see what kind of mark up they had.

 

Having said that, I haven't been in their store in many a year. I just did not see any bargains, or worthwhile things on sale there. 

Usually, what they had on sale...I would not have if they gave it away.

 

Right now, especially, if anyone wants my business, they need to put their customer's first, and if they ask a price that I consider obscene, they, perhaps, should also include the price they paid for it, so I may, just may, better understand why I am paying out the kazoo for an item. 

 

I had rather take a beating, and be forced to go to wally-world every day, than to do business with this company, or with dick's "sporting goods" for that matter. So far, I have an excellent memory, and I will remember these prices, and who was doing this sort of thing. 

 

I will wait for the insanity, and the feeding frenzy, to abate, and simply shoot my flintlocks, out in the cow pasture. So far, no one has cornered the market on rocks that produce a spark....not that they probably haven't thought of it.

 

W.K.

 

 

 

What they paid isn't relevant.  What they will have to pay to replace it is.  A business that focuses on what they paid rather than replacement cost will not stay in business long. 

[Pat Riot]

People showing their true colors. 
 

 

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

I gave up looking at anything on CTD years ago because they were always more expensive than I could buy elsewhere.

[Capt. James H. Callahan]

I ordered from them a time or two years ago. They used to have good prices. Problem was the shipping was exorbitant and here in Texas we got hit with sales tax to boot. It quickly became NOT a good price.

JHC

[Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619]

5 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

There is no such thing as price gouging, unless you subscribe to the idea that the government has a right to tell people how much they can charge when they're selling their own property.

 

I don't agree with that. You can 'gouge' without doing anything illegal, and suggesting somebody is gouging is not saying the government should have any hand in the subject.

 

It's not illegal, it's not a mortal sin, it may not even be quite unethical. But it ain't cowboy.

 

I have a good inventory of ammo, so I look at it with some detachment. We have a store here selling, as an example, .38spl for 90 bucks per box of 50. I can say it's gouging even though I don't need it. Why don't I need it? Because I've been keeping my supply up by buying it at Bass at 22 to 25 bucks per box- during the shortage.

Just takes time and patience.

 

So I don't think it's good, but I'll still shop there again when the prices go back down to normal. I'm not that worked up about it....

[Anvil Al #59168]

If someone is dumb enough to pay that. Then they deserve  to loose money.

Got a couple of boxes of the same thing in a 333 count box a few weeks ago.

Think I paid $23 bucks. 

[Captain Bill Burt]

1 hour ago, Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 said:

 

I don't agree with that. You can 'gouge' without doing anything illegal, and suggesting somebody is gouging is not saying the government should have any hand in the subject.

 

It's not illegal, it's not a mortal sin, it may not even be quite unethical. But it ain't cowboy.

 

I have a good inventory of ammo, so I look at it with some detachment. We have a store here selling, as an example, .38spl for 90 bucks per box of 50. I can say it's gouging even though I don't need it. Why don't I need it? Because I've been keeping my supply up by buying it at Bass at 22 to 25 bucks per box- during the shortage.

Just takes time and patience.

 

So I don't think it's good, but I'll still shop there again when the prices go back down to normal. I'm not that worked up about it....

Ok, then what is gouging?
 

Two individuals make a transaction in the market.

 

If you’re not one of the two, what business is it of yours? 

 

If you are one of the two and you chose to do the deal you have no room to complain.

 

Charging the market price isn’t Cowboy? But letting someone sell to you and lose money is? Lol. Ridiculous.

[Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619]

Well, at least we can  now agree that it doesn't have anything to do with the government!

[DocWard]

3 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

What they paid isn't relevant.  What they will have to pay to replace it is.  A business that focuses on what they paid rather than replacement cost will not stay in business long. 

 

You are, of course, correct that the business needs to look at replacement cost. My guess is their replacement cost is not much more than their purchase cost. Put another way, I'm not aware that the manufacturers are charging outrageously for their products. If they were, it wouldn't still be coming into the system at lower prices elsewhere after this period of time. Could it be there is a wholesaler making a fortune? Possibly, but not likely, given the company's history. So, at the end of the day, Cheaper Than Dirt's profit is what matters to them. They are happy to charge whatever they believe the market will bear. Is it gouging or is it capitalism? The answer doesn't need to be an either/or proposition.

 

Like others, I would sit and polish my firearms and do the occasional cleaning before I would pay those prices. I won't buy from them, period. If all other shooters who complain about them gouging would do the same, instead of buying from them as soon as the prices return to normal, they would be out of business in short order. That, too, is capitalism at work.

[Pat Riot]

Some businesses are price gouging and @Captain Bill Burtis correct. It’s their business and if someone is fool enough to give them money that is their business. 
I will not be a part of their dirtbag business. Not now and not in the future. 
There is a gun store and an ammo store in my area that will never ever see another dime of my money. They are price gougers. Scum. I hope they go under and I am doing my part to help with that. Withholding money that had they not decided to operate like douchebags I might have spent there. Also, anyone that I talk to about guns or ammo in my area I make sure I mention these businesses so they steer clear of them. 
My favorite LGS had some 9mm and .45 ACP recently. I wanted some .45 ACP. The clerk, Paul, told me the .45 ACP was $40 a box and then apologized because that was the cheapest they could sell it for. He related that they were only making a buck per box, but at least they had some ammo to offer. 
That was not “price gouging”. That was “supply and demand”. There is a difference. 
$250 for 222 rounds of .22 LR is price gouging. Period. 

[Captain Bill Burt]

You’re right, it is. And there’s nothing wrong with choosing who you want to do business with for whatever reasons you choose.

 

As an economist both by education, and formerly my job, this price gouging idea is a pet peeve of mine. 
 

People can charge what they want, or should be able to. People can buy, or not, or should be able to.

Any time those statements aren’t true you get market distortions such as shortages or surpluses.

 

Interesting thought, how many who are opposed to price gouging would sell the 1965 Mustang you bought new in ‘65 for the price you paid for it? Any takers?

 

How many of you go to a liquidation sale and insist on paying the merchant’s cost even when it’s higher than their asking price?

[J.D. Daily]

12 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Looks like it’s time for Cheaper than Dirt to change its name! 
Cheaper than no one??

"Cheaper than Dirt" has always been a oxymoron.  Their pricing today is a repeat of post Sandy Hook pricing.

[Captain Bill Burt]

I think CTD is making poor business decisions. They probably calculate that the number of informed guns and ammo purchasers is outnumbered by the number of uninformed and that they can therefore continue to operate with this business model and make a profit. I hope they’re wrong, but I wouldn’t describe what they’re doing as price gouging, I would describe it as stupid. 
 

I think Scarlett is an example of a business person who understands her market and the need to balance short term profitability against maintaining customer relationships.

[DocWard]

1 hour ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Interesting thought, how many who are opposed to price gouging would sell the 1965 Mustang you bought new in ‘65 for the price you paid for it? Any takers?

 

How many of you go to a liquidation sale and insist on paying the merchant’s cost even when it’s higher than their asking price?

 

These are actually both poor analogies and easily distinguishable from the current situation.

 

1965 Mustangs haven't been made since... Bear with me... 1965. In the intervening years, crashes, rust, neglect and collectors have created an increasingly limited number of Mustangs in the market. It is to be expected that with the popularity of the vehicle, maintenance, restoration, etc... the price will rise accordingly. Even then, the vagaries of the market causes prices to fluctuate as popularity and tastes shift, along with the availability of vehicles.

 

In regard to liquidations, the asking price is typically being set, not by the merchant, but by a liquidator who purchased the product, and more, at a fraction of its worth, meaning the liquidator is likely making a profit, even at the lower price.

 

 

[Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619]

I still think the gouging moniker applies when Joe's LGS is selling bulk 500 .22lr for $125 and Bass is selling the same stuff for $23.99 when it shows up, which in fact it does from time to time.

 

One thing about Joe's LGS, he has it on the shelves all the time!